Need help picking out Equipment for remote Location- Needs to boot back up easily

[alphawave7]

Dalepa echoes my advice...no need to go whole hog from the start, and no need for a Lambo as a grocery-getter. Doesn't mean you can't repurpose the Chevy Nova, and spring for a Lambo in the near future. Might even make you appreciate the new Lambo even more. (PS: log in and play..its beautiful out there right now!)

 

[bp2008]

The PoE switch linked by Dalepa only has a 31 watt total power budget. If you are going to connect a PTZ camera that requires PoE+ then that is more than half the power budget already in just one device.

If you need to get your internet connection wired across the house and can't run a network cable, you can use a powerline networking kit. You can not run those on a UPS though, so once the power goes out then so does your internet.

 

[alphawave7]

Plus, I had no end of trouble trying to use my power line network on the Hui...all it wanted to do was reset dance. Plain Jane POE direct to puter worked best for me.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[klasipca]

Start out slow, small, cheap.

Get an old(free) pc or laptop, POE+switch ($70), one Huisun 10x ($150), Blue Iris (trial) and cat6 cable premade and test it all out for about $230.

It will take some time to figure our BI, and the phone apps, but it's not too hard. Once you comfortable, get a faster PC and more cameras.

Just to add that you don't need poe+ switch for Huisun mini ptz, any poe will do but if you want to future proof it then poe+ wouldn't hurt. I have 5 Huisun cams powered by poe from NVR.

 

[zero-degrees]

Just to add that you don't need poe+ switch for Huisun mini ptz, any poe will do but if you want to future proof it then poe+ wouldn't hurt. I have 5 Huisun cams powered by poe from NVR.

@klasipca you still running your original Huisun that started the trend on this forum directly from your NVR poe port without issue? Or did you change that one out when the V2 came out?

 

[klasipca]

I upgraded all of them to v2 6 month ago but original v1 was also connected to NVR port

 

[smoothie]

Remote power control was mentioned earlier in this thread. The ability to turn individual power plugs on/off would help you a great deal in controlling this setup from a remote location.

This unit has some great features that could be very beneficial to you but it will cost you at $235.00

Each of the 5 outlets can be turned on or off remotely via the web interface of this power strip. So you could have a PoE+ switch connected to outlet1 with the Huisun PTZ connected to that switch and being powered by it. If the Huisun unit required a reboot you could remotely turn off outlet1, and then turn it back on again, which would power cycle the switch and the PTZ camera.

This unit has enough intelligence that you can set it up to ping the IP address of the camera and if the camera stops responding the power strip will turn off the power to it and turn it back on again, an automated reboot of unresponsive devices.


Most "appliance" type devices (e.g. switches, routers, etc) will turn on when they receive AC power. PCs on the other hand can behave differently, the reasonably good rule I have seen is if the PC is built for the "home" market it is less likely to have specific power controls, if the PC is built for the "Business" market it is more likely to have specific power controls.

Many PCs will have an option in the BIOS called something like "on AC restore" and they will have up to 3 options to choose from: (Not every PC will have this as an option in the BIOS).
1. Remain off (If AC power is applied to the computer it will remain off, regardless if the system was running or not when it last had power)
2. Turn on (If AC power is applied to the computer it should turn on and boot up, regardless if the system was running or not when it last had power)
3. Last state (If AC power is applied to the computer it should revert to whichever state it was in when last it had power)

The PCs most suitable for remote use and reliability are the ones that have the 2nd option available to them. Even if a smart UPS shuts down a system because of low battery power a PC with the 2nd option enabled will turn on once it receives AC power again. The 3rd option is the most trouble with systems connected to smart battery backups because the PC will consider itself "off" when last it had power and so will remain turned off when AC is restored.


Oh and "internet high five!" to a fellow Californian here on the boards =)

 

[bp2008]

The problem with having a PC turn on when power is restored, is that if the UPS battery does not go dead, then AC power is never actually lost as far as the PC is concerned. So it won't turn the PC back on when power is restored.

I'd go for "web power switch" by digital loggers instead. It is a bit cheaper and has more outlets, and also has the auto-ping feature you spoke of.

 

[nayr]

NVR should be running until battery is dead, no need to do a safe shutdown.. even if its a PC, run it til its dead and set bios to boot w/power is restored.

@klasipca, your NVR supports PoE+ in the spec sheet..

 

[klasipca]

NVR should be running until battery is dead, no need to do a safe shutdown.. even if its a PC, run it til its dead and set bios to boot w/power is restored.

@klasipca, your NVR supports PoE+ in the spec sheet..

No, it's poe

http://oversea-download.hikvision.com//uploadfile/user manual & datasheet/Datasheet of DS-7600NI-I2 P V3.3.4 20150731.pdf

 

[CaliGirl]

Ok, we pulled all the Cat5e cable yesterday. Fed them where they need to go with tons extra for camera placement. It all feeds back to a single area. Had to move the cable modem and wifi router and splice into the existing cable outside. Cable company said that is a no no and you need to have tech do it, but it worked fine and was easy our-self. Cable companies are so controlling. We are just moving the cable modem not adding anything new.


I've read everyone's post over and over and not seeing the computer and Blue iris as a good option with the power going in and out in the winter here. I would love the flexibility of blue iris, but not the troubles of programming the computer to restart on it’s own and open BI and start recording again.


The NVR seems more reliable in the aspect of rebooting and getting going again after a power failure. And we can log in remotely still and view the recordings from afar.


A few questions for the experts:
1. Is there an option in the NVR’s to power cycle a particular camera on the POE if it is not connecting remotely, or do i need to buy a managed switch for that option? Will a managed switch work in conjunction with the a Dahua NVR for example?


2. Some of the PTZ cameras don’t have POE but have a 12v power adapter. Can that be plugged in near the NVR and the power sent through the Cat5e cable? I don’t want to run 120v power all the way to the tree.


3. IF the POE cable is damaged and the power is shorted. How do the NVRs or switches handle this? Does it take down the entire system and cameras or can it just disregard that camera and not damage the NVR? It is a tough environment up here in the snow.


Thanks for everyone’s help getting this going! Took everyone’s advice to start slow. Still haven’t purchased cameras or recording equipment yet.

 

[nayr]

No, it's poe

http://oversea-download.hikvision.com//uploadfile/user manual & datasheet/Datasheet of DS-7600NI-I2 P V3.3.4 20150731.pdf

Proving your self wrong, since apparently you dont realize, Supported standard IEEE 802.3 af/at == PoE+, specifically 802.3at

read: ​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet#Standard_implementation

 

[smoothie]

Ok, we pulled all the Cat5e cable yesterday. Fed them where they need to go with tons extra for camera placement. It all feeds back to a single area. Had to move the cable modem and wifi router and splice into the existing cable outside. Cable company said that is a no no and you need to have tech do it, but it worked fine and was easy our-self. Cable companies are so controlling. We are just moving the cable modem not adding anything new.


I've read everyone's post over and over and not seeing the computer and Blue iris as a good option with the power going in and out in the winter here. I would love the flexibility of blue iris, but not the troubles of programming the computer to restart on it’s own and open BI and start recording again.


The NVR seems more reliable in the aspect of rebooting and getting going again after a power failure. And we can log in remotely still and view the recordings from afar.


A few questions for the experts:

I think the NVR would be a good call for the remote setup you are looking for. But the PC could be argued as well.

1. Is there an option in the NVR’s to power cycle a particular camera on the POE if it is not connecting remotely, or do i need to buy a managed switch for that option? Will a managed switch work in conjunction with the a Dahua NVR for example?

I am not sure about the ability for the NVR to control individual ports, perhaps people with more experience with NVRs can answer this question. Yes an NVR will work with a PoE switch, even if the NVR is PoE equipped or not.

2. Some of the PTZ cameras don’t have POE but have a 12v power adapter. Can that be plugged in near the NVR and the power sent through the Cat5e cable? I don’t want to run 120v power all the way to the tree.

For the cameras that do not support PoE, as well as ir illuminators, you can use a Splitter like this that will give you a 12v feed on a traditional adapter. Keep in mind some PoE power sources, such as the NVR or PoE switch, can have trouble detecting this splitter as a PoE device during negotiations. You can use a PoE injector or a switch that you can force a particular port to push PoE.

3. IF the POE cable is damaged and the power is shorted. How do the NVRs or switches handle this? Does it take down the entire system and cameras or can it just disregard that camera and not damage the NVR? It is a tough environment up here in the snow.


Thanks for everyone’s help getting this going! Took everyone’s advice to start slow. Still haven’t purchased cameras or recording equipment yet.

It is possible that a shorted cable could damage an NVR but that is extremely unlikely. The power output is not that high. If the line were to short out I would expect the NVR to simply consider that port in a state of "not connected". PoE is not a constantly energized cable but instead is handled each time a device is connected. PoE is a back and forth negotiation before power is really sent. If the cable is shorted it would cause the camera to reboot or turn off and the NVR would need to begin the PoE negotiation again which would fail so power wouldn't be passed on that connection.

 

[smoothie]

While the NVR is certainly the simpler and arguably the more reliable option for a remote setup like this there are things you could do with a PC that you simply cannot with an NVR. You could equip the PC with an additional hard drive (internal or external) as a backup drive. Install software like Acronis TrueImage and have it create drive image backups to that additional drive. You could set it up with an IPKVM which would allow you remote access to the PC during BIOS and POST. You could leave a USB flash drive with the Acronis boot software loaded on it. If the primary operating system drive were to get corrupted or damaged because of a power outage you could remote in to the IPKVM and boot the PC into the Acronis software from the USB flash drive and restore the system to a previous backup held on the backup drive. With this you would be able to fully rebuild this system remotely from anything but a hardware failure. Just food for thought.

 

[smoothie]

One of the things you will want to do when setting all this up is ensure the IP address range you are using on this network is unique to the addresses commonly used. For example a great many home networks are 192.168.1.x or 192.168.0.x and you would want to avoid these ranges. I would suggest making the 3rd set of numbers (octet) a value between 20 and 240. As an example 192.168.55.x or 192.168.199.x would both be excellent ranges to use. I suggest this because when you are using a VPN to connect to this network there is a good change the network you are on will be 192.168.1.x or 192.168.0.x and if the destination network has the same numbering schema it can give strange results. So if you make this network 192.168.17.x or something like that then the chance of you being at home and your home network also being 192.168.17.x is very unlikely. Since you are building this network essentially from the ground up this is an excellent time to take into consideration factors such as this and make the changes now while it is easy to do.

 

[tangent]

1. Is there an option in the NVR’s to power cycle a particular camera on the POE if it is not connecting remotely, or do i need to buy a managed switch for that option? Will a managed switch work in conjunction with the a Dahua NVR for example?


2. Some of the PTZ cameras don’t have POE but have a 12v power adapter. Can that be plugged in near the NVR and the power sent through the Cat5e cable? I don’t want to run 120v power all the way to the tree.

1. probably not, but you should be able to reboot the entire nvr which should power cycle poe devices. it's been a while since I last used an nvr with poe built in.
2. You wouldn't run 120V out there. The choice is whether you can use the Ethernet cable or not (proper PoE or otherwise). This will depend on the specs of the camera eg. how much power it draws and the length and gauge of the ethernet cable used. Simplest option would be to use something like this: https://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-POE10R-Gigabit-Splitter-compliant/dp/B003CFATQK/
BUT, you have to check how much power a device like this can output and see if it's enough.

The alternative would be to run something like some 18-2 to the cam from a 12V supply.

 

[Q™]

One of the things you will want to do when setting all this up is ensure the IP address range you are using on this network is unique to the addresses commonly used. For example a great many home networks are 192.168.1.x or 192.168.0.x and you would want to avoid these ranges. I would suggest making the 3rd set of numbers (octet) a value between 20 and 240. As an example 192.168.55.x or 192.168.199.x would both be excellent ranges to use. I suggest this because when you are using a VPN to connect to this network there is a good change the network you are on will be 192.168.1.x or 192.168.0.x and if the destination network has the same numbering schema it can give strange results. So if you make this network 192.168.17.x or something like that then the chance of you being at home and your home network also being 192.168.17.x is very unlikely. Since you are building this network essentially from the ground up this is an excellent time to take into consideration factors such as this and make the changes now while it is easy to do.

Dude...you have NO IDEA how much this fuQed me up several years ago when I was trying to setup a VPN for our IP phone system. I worked on this for days. And then it dawned on me. The advice you have provided here is golden for those attempting to setup a VPN. The amount of trouble and frustration I went through dealing with this issue was mind-numbing. Great stuff @smoothie.

 

[CaliGirl]

Ok, after lots of thought and detailed consideration of everyone’s great advice I have decided on this equipment. Primarily because of my non windows skill set, the remote location and lots of power outages.
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1. Dahua 8ch 4k NVR with POE on ebay for $299


2. WD Purple 4TB Surveillance Hard Disk Drive - 5400 RPM Amazon $141


3. Dahua IPC-HDBW4421E 4MP Network Dome Security IP with 2.8mm lens on Amazon for $130 each

4. DAHUA SD59230T-HN 2Mp Full HD 30x Optical zoom, online store $508
1. Does this have IR emitters built in for night vision, bc I don’t see any?
2. Requereis POE+, can I buy the POE+ injector for this to send the power from inside the house to it?
2. Is there a place to buy the Dahua 30x PTZ camera in the US for a decent price? or is this store CCTV-mall reputable?

Thanks so much for everyone's help. I will defiantly be switching all the IP address as suggested above to prevent issues down the road. Not sure how to do it yet, but I'll start researching that part.

 

[nayr]

1 & 2 How many cameras are you planning on running.
3: Get a turret like the 4221C, domes suck.. indoors 2.8mm is fine, outdoors consider 4mm or 6mm optics.
4.1: yes it has IR, they are discrete you wont see them til lit up..
4.2: yes that will work fine
4.3: the vendor I bought mine from in the US 2 years ago no longer sells them, but I've imported many cams off Aliexpress w/out issue.

 

[CaliGirl]

Running 6 cameras initially. With room for 2 more. I can't see a reason to run anymore then that for our purpose. It's more of a novelty, check on property and weather then real security. We have a neighbor next door that watches everything.

Ok, understand, domes must suck bc they reflect light in the housing and turret must have superior optics. I can't find a C model on Amazon. Is the 4221M similar enough? Or I'll order on allieexpress. I picked domes bc they looked less susceptible to spider webs. They're spiders everywhere since it's the forest. Are they a big issues on the turrets? Or just add Vaseline to the outside housing I was reading?

I picked 2.8mm bc the install locations are in tight areas with perceived subject 3-15ft away. Especially the front door mud room. I tried your lens calculator but maybe I did it wrong, it was a little complicated for me. I will reassess this though and thanks for bringing it up!

I will checkout Allieexpress, thanks!


Has anyone ever installed an IP camera underwater in a lake?