Need guidance - Networking two buildings

[Ckb3]

Story:
Right now I pay for two services from the cable company to support two single story business buildings in downtown Orlando that are approximately 15-20 apart. Building 1 is my main building that I run the majority of my business out of. Building 2 needs internet ((wired & wireless) for two smart locks and an Alexa playing music but, will soon (once this situation is figured out) have wired indoor cameras running. I have no issues running a hard line to building 2 but don't know what is the best method for this. Do I use Shielded or unshielded cable? I was going to order some outdoor cat5e to do this and some camera stuff at home. Electrically, both buildings run off the same electric service. Looking for the most cost effective solution here but open to ideas. I am Network dumb but i did manage to get a VPN setup for my home cams. Any help is appreciated.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Electrical isolation is an important factor to consider, the same electrical service or not. You're in a lightning rich environment and all it takes is one close strike and everything on your network can become toast.

The safest method, assuming you mean 15-20 feet apart, is to use a fiber cable or a dedicated wireless bridge like the Ubiquity Loco M5 series. Either will provide sufficient band width for six or eight cameras on the wireless link or unlimited cameras, basically, with a fiber link and will keep everything isolated and as safe as possible.

With fiber you can buy a pre-terminated cable and converters to go from fiber to copper. A little more expensive than a piece of CAT cable, sure, but how expensive would it be to replace, potentially, everything connected if you get a nearby lightning strike?

 

[Ckb3]

@sebastiantombs yes, I meant 15-20 Feet. In reality, total cable run would be closer to 50' The 15-20 is outside wall to outside wall.
Do you or anyone have a suggestion of a transceiver set for a small project like this?

 

[sebastiantombs]

Fiber converter -

Amazon.com

Fiber cable -

Amazon.com

Note from @bp2008 - the above media converter has the wrong connector type (SC) for the fiber cable that was linked (LC).

Ubiquity NanoStation M2 dedicated wireless link -

Amazon.com

 

[IReallyLikePizza2]

Another option for a P2P Wireless connection is the Mikrotik Wireless Wire. 1G Full duplex

Amazon.com

 

[Ckb3]

I would need a converter on each end (clearly) and I would buy two of the same converters? Is there a specific one for transmitting and one for receiving? Probably a dumb questions because it does show the fiber connector as rx/tx. Just making sure!

 

[Smilingreen]

I would need a converter on each end (clearly) and I would buy two of the same converters? Is there a specific one for transmitting and one for receiving? Probably a dumb questions because it does show the fiber connector as rx/tx. Just making sure!

Correct, you need one at both ends. Make sure you get the right fiber in the right port. Some of us have been human and got the 2 swapped around and felt really stupid after several hours of trouble shooting before we realized that!

 

[IReallyLikePizza2]

What's your budget? if it were me, I know I'd be adding more stuff, and I'd just make sure I had a switch with SFP/SFP+ ports. No media converters needed then

 

[Ckb3]

What's your budget? if it were me, I know I'd be adding more stuff, and I'd just make sure I had a switch with SFP/SFP+ ports. No media converters needed then

@IReallyLikePizza2 I would prefer to keep this project under $400. Its costing me $130/month to have the second service. Everything in the building is wireless with the exception of the cameras not yet installed but will need to tie back to my dahua nvr.

 

[mikeynags]

What’s the cable entry into the building look like? Running either cat 5 or fiber between the building will most likely be your cheapest option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TVille]

Unless you can go aerial, running fiber or Ethernet will be a little challenging. After going over my options for getting a camera at a garage about 75 feet away, considering the cost and effort of conduit or direct burial, I went with a pair of Ubiquiti radio links. Works great, even with one inside the garage, aimed at the wood wall. While it cost close to $200, it was simple, just works, and much less effort. I would have spent that much in buying direct burial ethernet. The ones I have are rated at 300 Mbps, so plenty fast for most uses. Although I do like @IReallyLikePizza2 idea about getting fiber ready switches and running fiber. But, that runs the cost up a bit!

 

[mikeynags]

Unless you can go aerial, running fiber or Ethernet will be a little challenging. After going over my options for getting a camera at a garage about 75 feet away, considering the cost and effort of conduit or direct burial, I went with a pair of Ubiquiti radio links. Works great, even with one inside the garage, aimed at the wood wall. While it cost close to $200, it was simple, just works, and much less effort. I would have spent that much in buying direct burial ethernet. The ones I have are rated at 300 Mbps, so plenty fast for most uses. Although I do like @IReallyLikePizza2 idea about getting fiber ready switches and running fiber. But, that runs the cost up a bit!

Don't get me wrong - I went with the Ubiquiti radios as well (I hate digging) but @Ckb3 mentioned something about keeping this project as cheap as possible, which means break out the shovel

 

[sebastiantombs]

The easy way is a dedicated link. A 300Mb/ps link will handle a lot of cameras or a mix of cameras and streaming. Fiber is more labor intensive but pretty much bandwidth unlimited. The material costs, assuming you use fiber/ethernet converters rather than change switches to accommodate fiber connections, is in the same ballpark of about $200. It comes down to how much work you want to put into this project.

 

[Teken]

Given this is a business the vast majority of the costs can be written off as a business expense. If one calculates the annual dedicated ISP costs for just a year. You’ll quickly find out the annual ISP costs is more than your current budget.

As such, this should be considered a long term investment for the business where reliability is the goal. Given the short distance trenching isn’t going to be fully impossible and that can be done by you or hired out.

PTP RF has its place and overall works great if all is equal and solves lots of problems from isolation, lightning, and overall costs vs a hardline. Regardless of the above RF is not something that is used where other solutions are easily available.

As others noted having two POE+ switches with both SFP / SFP+ ports is the best route to take. The initial outlay for trenching, conduit, armoured fibre, two 24 / 48 port POE+ switches will be recouped in less than three years of ISP subscriptions alone.

There will never be any issues with RFI, EFI, weather, microwave, bandwidth, and consistent throughput!

It’s safe to say one year of ISP subscription is $1K. If you consider just three years and all the years that follow let’s just say three years that’s $3K. If you find a middle ground of $1~3K you can literally buy any 1st / 2nd tier hardware you like and it’s going to work for at least ten years.

Just something to consider from a business perspective.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I agree with the business expense idea, but I get the impression he's a one man band, sole proprietor, so the expense is out of his pocket at a time when revenue is down which is why he's trying to eliminate one of the two ISP connections. I'll also bet they're leased/rented buildings so making an investment like trenching, fiber and switches may not provide the desired result in terms of write-off over the long haul. If it were me, the dedicated link would already be up and running.

 

[Teken]

I agree with the business expense idea, but I get the impression he's a one man band, sole proprietor, so the expense is out of his pocket at a time when revenue is down which is why he's trying to eliminate one of the two ISP connections. I'll also bet they're leased/rented buildings so making an investment like trenching, fiber and switches may not provide the desired result in terms of write-off over the long haul. If it were me, the dedicated link would already be up and running.

Agreed, without more insight from the OP it’s hard to say do X vs Y. If you own the building and property it’s easy to decide on a hardline. If on the other hand it’s a rented space the business revenue and longevity of the same drives RF vs hardline.

It’s not lost on me as to why (PtP) RF is used given the ease of install and all the other benefits called out above. Having said that, every time I get a call about communications dropping off everyday at high noon.

You just have to ask what are you willing to sacrifice in terms of communication reliability knowing it’s going down every time Johnny is heating up those pizza pops in the microwave?!?

 

[sebastiantombs]

I've had a Nano Loco running for almost three years and have yet to have a drop out of communications. It's been as solid as copper or fiber for me and saved me digging a trench about 100 feet long. At the distance he's talking here he'll have virtually 100% signal strength on both ends and will probably need to lower output a little so the front ends don't go into desense.

 

[Jessie.slimer]

+1 on the point to point radio idea.

I've got one year on my Loco m5s without any issues (that were not my fault). I let some tree branches sprout leaves in front of one radio in the spring. After trimming back, no more dropouts and solid performance.

 

[Ckb3]

What’s the cable entry into the building look like? Running either cat 5 or fiber between the building will most likely be your cheapest option.

@mikeynags Currently, its aerial fed and enters through the stucco wall. I would plan to do the same for simplicity. IF I have to, I will trench and run conduit. I'm an electrician by trade so the factors here are lack of networking knowledge and equipment costs.

I agree with the business expense idea, but I get the impression he's a one man band, sole proprietor, so the expense is out of his pocket at a time when revenue is down which is why he's trying to eliminate one of the two ISP connections. I'll also bet they're leased/rented buildings so making an investment like trenching, fiber and switches may not provide the desired result in terms of write-off over the long haul. If it were me, the dedicated link would already be up and running.

@sebastiantombs, you're spot on. Right now we lease the buildings and the building owner is open to whatever we need but, at our cost. At this time, smart door locks and cameras are the main factor for having a reliable service at this second location. I need the ability to change lock combos or unlock lock from my phone for clients needing access outside of my business hours.

Given this is a business the vast majority of the costs can be written off as a business expense. If one calculates the annual dedicated ISP costs for just a year. You’ll quickly find out the annual ISP costs is more than your current budget.

As such, this should be considered a long term investment for the business where reliability is the goal. Given the short distance trenching isn’t going to be fully impossible and that can be done by you or hired out.

PTP RF has its place and overall works great if all is equal and solves lots of problems from isolation, lightning, and overall costs vs a hardline. Regardless of the above RF is not something that is used where other solutions are easily available.

As others noted having two POE+ switches with both SFP / SFP+ ports is the best route to take. The initial outlay for trenching, conduit, armoured fibre, two 24 / 48 port POE+ switches will be recouped in less than three years of ISP subscriptions alone.

There will never be any issues with RFI, EFI, weather, microwave, bandwidth, and consistent throughput!

It’s safe to say one year of ISP subscription is $1K. If you consider just three years and all the years that follow let’s just say three years that’s $3K. If you find a middle ground of $1~3K you can literally buy any 1st / 2nd tier hardware you like and it’s going to work for at least ten years.

Just something to consider from a business perspective.

@Teken Currently its $1600/year which you are correct is more than my current budget. I have already cancelled the service to cut costs at for the immediate financial needs No, this isn't going to make or break my business but, I know I can get service over there for much less than that cost.. I can't imagine needing a 24 port switch at either location. The only wired devices at this time are cameras. I have some more reading to do to understand fiber because I'm sure its not just a plug and play operation.
Would fiber need to be "armored" if its in conduit?

 

[sebastiantombs]

It's a good idea to use burial rated insulation in any conduit install to protect from any moisture accumulations.

Installing fiber and converters is just a plug and play situation. They only thing that can normally go wrong is that you swap transmit and receive at one end. If you don't get a link indication just swap the two connectors and it should be good to go. Just remember it's fiber, actually a form of glass, and isn't as robust as plain copper cable. Protecting the connectors during installation is very important.