Motion detection with non hikvision cameras on DS-7616NI-E2 / 16P

[hipflask]

Hi all,
Ive recently purchased DS-7616NI-E2 / 16P and have some cheap Chinese cameras that are onvif and onvif 2. I had a bit of a struggle to get them on the system. Two of them i had to use my own rtsp protocols and point it to the correct stream.
All four of the cameras are now showing in the nvr and i can get them all to record on constant. However im having no luck getting any of them to record using motion detection in the nvr. Ive enabled the individual cameras through ip(their own interface) to allow motion detection (although realistically this should be done by the nvrs options?)
i have created the full schedule in the nvr and enabled it across all cameras yet im not getting any triggered event/motion detection recordings.
nvr firmware is V3.3.4 build 150616 incase it makes a difference.
In future i will be getting hikvision cams as funds allow and have a ds-2cd3345-i on order atm.
Is this a compatibility issue or am i missing something?

Nice to meet you all btw
Heres a screeny of the cams
Hipflask

 

[alastairstevenson]

However im having no luck getting any of them to record using motion detection in the nvr.

It's very likely that the 'Cheap Chinese cameras' do not support the ONVIF 'Event subscription push/pull notification' facility.
I've used a few Cheap Chinese cameras, but I've only ever seen events supported via ONVIF with Hikvision cameras.

However - it also sounds like you are using a 'Custom protocol' with an RTSP stream definition - which does not support motion detection as it's simply a video stream, it does not carry informational messages such as ONVIF or Hikvision's own command and control protocol.

It is possible to check if your ONVIF cameras do generate motion events under ONVIF by using the very good Windows open-source tool 'ONVIF Device Manager'.
When you have used it to connect to your cameras, check the 'Events' page and trigger some motion.
Any ONVIF motion events generated by the camera will show there.
If there are none - then clearly your NVR has nothing to trigger any actions with.
If you do get some - then it should be possible to get the NVR to trigger on them.
But you need to configure the cameras as ONVIF in the NVR.
To do that, you will need to determine what is the camera 'ONVIF port'. This is the port that is used to conduct the ONVIF dialogues, and is often not the same as the HTTP port on the camera.
Using ONVIF Device Manager, the ONVIF port can be seen embedded in the URL at the bottom of the 'Identification' page.
You need to use that for the port value in the NVR ONVIF configuration.

*edit* 'ONVIF Device Manager' is on sourceforge.net by the way.

 

[hipflask]

Thanks Alastair. Understood. I will have a look into the onvif triggers
Is it only the cameras the trigger the motion effects? isnt it controllable through the nvr also? (why have the motion event and settings in the nvr?).

I know this will iron out with the hikvision cams im getting - i just don't want to junk the Chinese stuff as i like recycling if i can.

 

[alastairstevenson]

why have the motion event and settings in the nvr?.

Convenience, I suppose, one place to carry out all the system configuration.
Plus, on a Hikvision NVR, when the cameras are connected to the PoE ports, they operate on a separate network segment that by default is not accessible from the LAN. So no direct access to the cameras for detailed configuration.
On some NVRs, firmware dependant, there is a facility called 'Virtual Host' which when enabled provides a NATed link in a column on the right of the camera configuration table, which can be used for browser access direct to connected cameras.
There are other ways to make the PoE cameras accessible from the LAN - but that's another topic ...

 

[nugget]

just dropping a note to confirm this
got myself a 7608 very recently.
for small room i bought a cheapo chinese cam (720p/poe/ir) ('xmeye' something related)
cam was just for simple motion recording i thought why the hell pay $100+ for a small cam that only required poe and onvif (motion) recording...

I can record with the nvr but (nvr) motion detection is a no go.

ODM fails and this is why:
POST /onvif/device_service HTTP/1.1 Content-Type: application/soap+xml; charset=utf-8; action="http://www.onvif.org/ver10/device/wsdl/GetSystemDateAndTime"
Host: 10.0.1.12
Content-Length: 261
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
Connection: Close
<s:Envelope xmlns:s="http://www.w3.org/2003/05/soap-envelope"><s:Body xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"><GetSystemDateAndTime xmlns="http://www.onvif.org/ver10/device/wsdl"/></s:Body></s:Envelope>HTTP/1.0 200 OK
Content-type: application/binary
Server: uc-httpd 1.0.0
Expires: 0
<html><head><title>404 File Not Found</title></head><body>The requested URL was not found on this server</body></html>

portscan and info found:
34567 "mediaport" = port for video transmission
80 (HTTP) - NETSurveillance WEB (uc-httpd 1.0.0)/ = web access – working (need IE)
23 (telnet) - could not acces it yet with default user 'admin' and <pass>
554 (RTSP)
8899 (ONVIF) - gSOAP 2.7
9527 some logging output server

guess i'll have to find myself another one...

 

[hipflask]

i have 4 chinese cams at the moment.. Thanks to alistairs input ive been looking into but have been busy with other things last week. I have updated the firmware on a couple, one will not talk to onvif even though its using the protocol, one drops on and off but wont output to motion within onvif protocol and two are working with onvif and outputting onvif alarms. i have attached a secondary nvr *cheapo one of ebay and its logging the onvif and recording the two cheapo cams with motion detect but ive still failed to manage the hikvision to record from motion with them yet.trouble is all i had lying around was a couple of 500gb drives to stick in the hikvision so wanted to be frugal with the recording for now. I had options on ordering a couplle of decent drives or a couple of cams.waiting on ds-2cd3145f-i and a ds-2cd3345-i just to play with. The ones i have working are interesting as i can hide them in my front window and they are unibtrusive. They have no ir cut though but a decent picture http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-HD-1080P-2MP-CCTV-Security-3-6mm-Lens-IP-Camera-H-264-Onvif-p2p-Mini-Indoor-/321899064467?hash=item4af2adec93:g:MncAAOSwBvNTrUiV they were £26 when i ordered them so were worth a punt.
They caught a neigbour crashing into new car parked across the road today which is a common occurance here unfortunetly. Damaged his winf on a 2015 plate car and he drove off ....got his details though i will post the onvif details when im at home on my main machine. This and lockpicking are my hobbies at the moment as i dont watch tv and have gone back into painting after owning a computer shop for many years. Its a field i wouldnt mind getting into now the nvr and cameras are at a price you could offer home installs.
Plus i get bored painting lol!

 

[alastairstevenson]

Damaged his winf on a 2015 plate car and he drove off ....got his details though

Nice one!

ODM fails and this is why:

Looks like the ONVIF support is pretty cr$p if it can't even tell the time.
I've seen quite a few cheap Chinese cameras but never seen one yet where ODM doesn't get a decent response.

23 (telnet) - could not acces it yet with default user 'admin' and <pass>

admin and cat1029 is fairly common.

 

[nugget]

Nice one!
Looks like the ONVIF support is pretty cr$p if it can't even tell the time.
I've seen quite a few cheap Chinese cameras but never seen one yet where ODM doesn't get a decent response.
admin and cat1029 is fairly common.

nope .
i was gonne open in and use a serial link but i took some history lessons with google.
it worked with user: root and pass: xmhdipc
dropped some cam details below
i have seen other threads about this type of system
info from cam = v4.02.R12.00006510.10010.140700 (build date 2015-6-16)
510 is "compile version", 1407 "r&d version"
10010 the rest tells me onvif server (ipc) support but not onvif client (nvr)
i upgraded to the most recent fw i found : General_HZXM_IPC_HI3518E_50H10L_S38_V4.02.R12.20150910_ALL
the only thing that changed was the build date so not sure if that file was more recent or not.
either way my onvif client bit is still inactive so i doubt there's anything i can do here

i guess if you want a nvr compliant cam for these kind of chipsets you need one with a .xxx11. notification and not a 10.
that means seller should mention "nvr support" a some very clearly do i see now.




===============================
| SYSTEM INFO
| ID: 8043420004048425
| product type: 50H10L
| product: HI3518E_50H10L_S39
| video channel: 1
| audio channel: 1
| alarm in: 1
| alarm out: 1
| forward video chip: OV9712
| DSP chip: HI3518E
| analog audio mode: voice codec
| talkback: voice codec
| back video chip: no chip
| store interface: SDIO
| matrix surpport: No
| wireless interface: USB
| hardware encode: encode chip
| hardware version: 1
| video_interface: BNC
| net_interface: Ethernet
| hardware info len: 8
******************************************************
LIBDVR: Complied at Jun 12 2015 19:34:48 SVN:1028

 

[nugget]

update:

although the new firmware was the same version (only different build date) i am now able to use ODM...
for whats worth, the device id reports "onvif version : 2.04"
the RTSP link i get does not seem to work
events are generated non stop every second like :"tns1:rulenegine - changed - ismotion:true"

now, i can create a motion detection event without any error but it still does not record anything.
to be sure my nvr was set up right, i changed my 2732 to onvif. with this i can record motion events.

although i got a bit further i fear its the end of the line for this cam



ps:
with blue iris motion recording works but thats because the sw is set up to use the camera specific profile
(xmeye - 12345, which i had to set manually) as does the CMS software. it did originally propose some generic rtsp profile.

 

[nugget]

UPDATE :
i got an update from the seller which seems a little more recent than he one i found but with this fw the Hik nvr motion recording finally works !!!
(General_HZXM_IPC_HI3518E_50H10L_S38_V4.02.R12.20151010_ALL)
the fw has always the same name so only the build date is relevant.

i can upload this fw somewhere should anyone needs

 

[erbipjr]

Hi nugget, i have same cam you do. Can you point me to the firmware page ? Or kindly upload the firmware you have. Thanks in advance.

 

[nugget]

Can you point me to the firmware page ? Or kindly upload the firmware you have

here it is
https://www.dropbox.com/s/42ko1gzv60m3m9w/General_HZXM_IPC_HI3518E_50H10L_S38_V4.02.R12.20151010_ALL.bin?dl=0

i still have some strange issue with my hik after reset the motion recording tab is blank for this cam (only) but that is probably something else

 

[hipflask]

Hi Nugget, ye similar details here even with the two cams working within onvif.I put the second nvr box on and that gets the motion detection working ok.
I have however today got the DS-2CD3345-I from a chinese seller and have set that up on the system and the motion detects working fine. Its like Alistair says, hikvisions not playing friendly with the chinese cams. Its a lesson learned for me to be honest. Now i know the way forward, the quality difference is pretty massive. I will be completing my setup and moving forward with the hik stuff.
Ive got a taxi owner friend i know wants a setup so i can now honestly setup something that should provide him value for money and support (if i buy from a dealer in the uk). I will leave the choice to him.
Hipflask

 

[erbipjr]

here it is
https://www.dropbox.com/s/42ko1gzv60m3m9w/General_HZXM_IPC_HI3518E_50H10L_S38_V4.02.R12.20151010_ALL.bin?dl=0

i still have some strange issue with my hik after reset the motion recording tab is blank for this cam (only) but that is probably something else

Thank you very much.

 

[nugget]

Hi Nugget, ye similar details here even with the two cams working within onvif.I put the second nvr box on and that gets the motion detection working ok.
Hipflask

we're indeed talking about the event->motion-> ( ) enable motion recording option
that is suddenly blanc after reboot of the hik nvr right?