Money & Economics

bigredfish

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^^^^
Good starightforward advice. Unfortunately most don't heed it nowadays...

Debt is #1. Sure you have to go into debt at some point, home mortgage for instance. But doing it with a plan, and within your means, and especially having it paid off at retirement, was a huge part of us being able to comfortably retire this coming year. I'm driving a 10 year old vehicle thats still in good shape and I hope to drive it another 10. paid off looong ago.
At 65 Zero debt is a nice feeling...

And that lack of debt means we can live off SS with room to spare, and not even have to touch the nest egg. Priceless!
 

Sybertiger

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Yup, still driving my 2002 Ford Explorer. I bought it new and the only vehicle I bought new but I knew I was going to own it forever. When it needed repairs I always did the work myself....timing chain, intake manifold, suspension, etc, etc. Amazing how much you save by doing the work yourself and learn some fun things along the way.

Student loan...9% interest...paid it off as quickly as I could. Mortgage...paid it off when I was 39 years old. Charge everything on CC but pay it off every month.

The stupidity of the American people is why the American economy is so strong compared to other counties. You just have to choose to not participate in the stupidity. Don't owe unless you have no choice.
 

David L

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Agreed. I tried to live by a few rules. Why make the rich, richer? Loans, CC debt, avoid as much as you can...Second Rule, If you don't have the cash to buy something, Don't buy it. What we have found, in most cases, you don't actually don't need it, you just want it. Wait a few months or even a year when you can afford it. I did this with an old Frig., it leaked for a year before I had enough money for a new one (I was single then too, would still have it except for second wife said no :). Of course this does not apply to homes or cars until you are much older...Our last 2 houses we paid cash for...all our vehicles for the last few decades we paid cash for. Started with cars I had to push start, haha, remember those days, put it in reverse gear, push it with the door open and when it starts, jump in, haha, kinda miss those days...I have own some jalopy/lemons but worked up, by saving money, to were I am at today.

We will buy something with the CC and pay it in full too when the bill comes in, so pretty much paying cash for it. We only use the CC for convenience, the CC don't like us because they make no extra money off of us, just off the Merchant.

As far as vehicles, best time to buy one is when it is around 2 years old, most have lost about half their value by then. We have been able to get 2 year old vehicles from a Dealer "Certified" with low mileage for about half of what the same make/model new vehicle cost. I know Covid changed that, but actually you will find alot of 2 year old vehicles now have alot lower mileage since Covid, many people working from home.

I picked up a 2019 Highlander in 2021 with only 13k mileage at a Dealership, Certified (Meaning one year of bumper to bumper warranty), I added 7 year Manufacture warranty, did pay more than half for it, closer to 2/3s the cost of a new one but the new one only had a 5 year Man. warranty, plus I traded in 2 other vehicles and got $5k more for one then I paid for it a year before and another $2k more for the second that I was going to ask for. So I made out pretty good IMO. Of course I lost money by buying from a Dealer, everyone does, but I feel good with the warranty and what I got for my used vehicles.

We keep our vehicles, in most cases, around 15 years avg. presently we have a 2017 and 2019 that should be our last, well other than a truck we will be purchasing soon, living in the country now. Had a 2000 Ram 1500 for 22 years, gave it to my son. Had a 1994 Escort wagon for 14 years and my 2008 Jeep Patriot (I did buy it new), till 2021 when I traded it for the Highlander. :)
 

Sybertiger

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Speaking of car buying....I paid cash for that 2002 Ford Explorer. But....I researched things like retail vs invoice price, "dealer holdback" and other incentives offered to the dealer. After I finished research I called five local Ford dealers in the Orlando area. I told them I wanted to custom order a vehicle with certain features then told them what I would pay them to simply get on the computer and order it for me. 4 of the 5 dealers told me they could not do that for that low a price.....the 5th one went for it after I reemphasized all I was asking was for them to go to the computer and enter an order for me. It was easy money for them for 15 mins worth of computer entry. It's amazing how greedy some of these dealers are....they want to hit a home run with every car sale instead of taking the easy money for doing practically nothing. It that particular dealer may have needed to make his monthly quota too so maybe that helped?

I never once walked into a dealer and had to hear their BS sales pitch. Did everything from the phone from the comfort of my home. Gave them a CC for the down payment. 11 weeks later I got a call to pick up my vehicle and told them not to bother putting their dumb ass advertisement sticker or badge on the car or else I would charge them for advertising. Wrote a check for the balance....easy-peasy transaction.
 
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Sybertiger

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My dad sold his 1977 Ford F350 SuperCab pickup in 2019 (41 years old) for more than he bought it for. Of course "more" is a relative term since he was paid in USA greenbacks which has been pretty much become play money thanks to inflation.
 

bigredfish

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It has begun.
No longer a “conspiracy theory”, it’s quite real.
It’s not a matter of IF but WHEN they try implementing it in the US.
Fight it tooth and nail like your life depends on it, because it does….

Europe's New Digital Identity Wallet: Security Or Tyranny?
 

Sybertiger

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GB should thank their lucky stars for BREXIT. These fools haven't even begun to think this through. If/when enacted over here you know the first thing will be to say that having a digital wallet is a human right and therefore it must be funded regardless with a annual "living amount" and further all the illegals will be given a US digital wallet as they cross the border in part to give them a defacto legal status here. Then of course there is all the guberint control, seizure, redistribution of wealth etc, etc, etc that will follow. You will be assimilated and become a part of The Collective.

1699968582311.png
 
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Hey! Change can be pretty daunting, especially when it comes to big shifts like Brexit. There's a lot to consider, including the impact on economics and individual rights. BTW, if you're into audiobooks or narration, have you thought about exploring how to make money on Audible Amazon? Sometimes, amidst all the changes, exploring new opportunities can bring unexpected positives.
 
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mat200

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Hey! Change can be pretty daunting, especially when it comes to big shifts like Brexit. There's a lot to consider, including the impact on economics and individual rights.
Hi @MohammedCole

What do you mean Brexit on this topic ?

What do you personally see and experience in your local USA town ?
 

gwminor48

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I'm surprised Yahoo would run a story with this headline, Biden wouldn't approve if he was able to comprehend things.

 

bigredfish

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America’s Runaway Debt Scenario: $1,000,000,000,000 In Interest
America’s Runaway Debt Scenario: $1,000,000,000,000 In Interest | ZeroHedge

The U.S. federal government has borrowed so much money that, over the past year, it has had to spend one-fifth of all the money it collected just on debt interest—which came to almost $880 billion.


(Illustration by The Epoch Times, Getty Images, Shutterstock)


Americans paid some $450 billion less in income taxes for the year, trapping the government in the pincers of a fiscal crunch.
The country teeters on the brink of a debt spiral that could devolve into a fiscal crisis or hyperinflation, several economists told The Epoch Times.

The problem is serious because, any way you cut it, taxpayers are paying interest on the mountain of debt that has been accumulated,” said Steve Hanke, a professor of applied economics at Johns Hopkins University. “In short, they are paying something for nothing.”

Congress must dramatically curb deficit spending to instill confidence in investors—who seem to be losing faith in America’s ability to satisfy its obligations, some suggest.
“Deficit spending by the U.S. government is in a runaway scenario," said Mark Thornton, a senior fellow at the classical liberal Mises Institute. "The amount of money that they're borrowing is at extremely elevated levels and there doesn’t seem to be any regulation or even mild attempts to curb the spending side of the fiscal equation.”


The U.S. Treasury building in Washington on March 13, 2023. The Treasury joined other government financial institutions to bail out Silicon Valley Bank's account holders after it collapsed. (Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)

Gigantic Debt
Government debt stood above $33 trillion in fiscal year 2023 (the 12 months that ended on Sept. 30). That’s about $1.7 trillion more than the year before. Interest on the debt has been growing steadily for decades, although at a relatively slow pace to about $570 billion in 2019 from about $350 billion in 1995—an annual increase of some 2 percent.
With the explosion of government spending during the COVID-19 pandemic and the subsequent interest rate increases by the Federal Reserve, the debt cost has skyrocketed by more than 50 percent between 2019 and 2023. Over the past year, it has already surpassed the entire military budget.

The cost is expected to keep growing as old debt issued at low interest rates matures and is rolled over into higher rates.
While the government pays some of the interest to itself, as it holds about 20 percent of the debt in various trusts and funds, interest from that portion of the debt is supposed to pay for future expenses of programs such as Medicare and Social Security.

That money is already slated to go out the door. It just hasn’t gone out the door yet,” said E.J. Antoni, an economist and research fellow at conservative think tank The Heritage Foundation.
“It’s not as if the government has that cash on hand to spend.”

Even with that income counted in, the Medicare Hospital Insurance and Social Security funds are expected to run out of money in about 10 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

The National Debt Clock in Washington on Nov. 13, 2023.(Madalina Vasiliu/The Epoch Times)
Who Pays?
Proponents of large government deficit spending have argued that servicing the debt isn’t much of a worry since the Fed can print the cash necessary to cover the interest or even buy up the debt. The Treasury would then pay the interest on the debt to the Fed, which would then use the money to cover the cost of its operations and send the surplus back to the Treasury. The government would, in effect, pay the interest to itself.

Indeed, about 20 percent of the government debt is held by the Fed already.
However, the reality doesn’t necessarily follow this logic.
“The Federal Reserve doesn’t actually make money anymore," Mr. Antoni said. "They lose money because so much of the Treasuries that they have on the books right now [were] purchased in 2020 and even early 2021 when rates were near zero, so those assets are earning almost nothing,"
Anything the Fed does collect on its portfolio, it immediately pays out to banks and money market funds in interest on reserves and reverse repurchase agreements. The point of those operations is to stem inflation—“keeping liquid cash locked in its vaults so that it can’t multiply in the banking system,” he said.

These operations now cost the central bank some $700 million per day, forcing it into a “huge deficit,” Mr. Antoni said.
“It’s not sending Treasury a dime.”
For the same reason, the Fed seems to lack the appetite for more government debt. Over the past year and a half, it has been slowly reducing its debt holdings, siphoning cash out of the market to curb inflation.

“Any time the Fed buys something, they do it with money that’s being created for that purpose,” he said.
“The Fed actually doesn’t have an account with any balance. Their checking account literally has zero balance so when they sell an asset, the money that goes into that account is extinguished. When they buy an asset, the money that comes out of that account is just created.”

If the Fed were to buy more debt, it would increase the money supply, summoning the specter of inflation even as it’s trying to banish it.
“We would be right back on the inflation treadmill,” Mr. Antoni said.
Bad Credit?
If the government wants to borrow without worsening inflation, it needs to find somebody to buy the debt with existing dollars.
Until recently, that hasn’t been a problem. Despite offering measly interest, U.S. Treasurys served as a safe haven investment—a hedge against risk and an indispensable collateral in complex investment schemes in financial markets.

U.S. Treasurys were seen as the safest asset. And increasingly that’s not the case today,” Mr. Antoni said.
In August, the Fitch rating firm downgraded U.S. debt to AA+ from AAA.
On Nov. 9, the Treasury had the worst auction of 30-year Treasurys in more than a decade as investors demanded a premium to buy the bond. Demand was down by almost 5 percent from the month before.

On Nov. 10, Moody's, another rating firm, lowered the U.S. debt outlook to “negative” from “stable,” arguing that polarization in Congress is likely to thwart fiscal reforms.
“People are increasingly realizing today [that U.S. Treasurys] aren’t safe at all,” Mr. Antoni said.
He pointed out that “violent changes” in monetary policy can dramatically affect bond prices.
Nobody would pay the full price of a bond that pays 2 percent annual interest when the Treasury now offers plenty of bonds that pay 5 percent.

“If you bought a government bond, for example, in 2020, it’s lost about half of its value, so you just can’t sell it," Mr. Antoni said. "You’re essentially stuck with that low rate of return."
Accounting for inflation, the older bonds are now, in fact, losing their owners money, but at least they return something.
“That’s still typically better than the losses you would take if you sold it outright,” he said.

Then, there’s the default risk. Investors are aware that the government will likely one day be unable to pay its debts. So far, that hasn’t been much of an issue, partly because of the “greater fool strategy,” as he put it.

“'I’m betting that there’s a bigger fool out there who, after I want to sell, is still willing to buy, even though that Doomsday, if you will, is right around the corner,'” he said, summing up the strategy. “That may sound silly, but there are plenty of investors and investments that operate on that principle.”

The cooling of demand for the 30-year bonds may be a sign that investors are gradually losing confidence that such a fool will be available over the long haul. The Treasury seems to be responding by offering more of the shorter maturity bonds, according to Mr. Antoni.

Yet inflation poses a similar risk to a default, he said, noting that the dollar has lost about 17 percent of its value over the past few years.
“It’s the same as if the Treasury were to turn around and only pay 83 percent of the bondholders and tell the other 17 percent to go pound sand,” he said.
All these factors seem to be souring investor confidence in the bonds. And once spoiled, investor trust is hard to restore, according to Mr. Hanke.
 
Last edited:

mat200

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America’s Runaway Debt Scenario: $1,000,000,000,000 In Interest
America’s Runaway Debt Scenario: $1,000,000,000,000 In Interest | ZeroHedge

The U.S. federal government has borrowed so much money that, over the past year, it has had to spend one-fifth of all the money it collected just on debt interest—which came to almost $880 billion.


(Illustration by The Epoch Times, Getty Images, Shutterstock)


Americans paid some $450 billion less in income taxes for the year, trapping the government in the pincers of a fiscal crunch.
The country teeters on the brink of a debt spiral that could devolve into a fiscal crisis or hyperinflation, several economists told The Epoch Times.

The problem is serious because, any way you cut it, taxpayers are paying interest on the mountain of debt that has been accumulated,” said Steve Hanke, a professor of applied economics at Johns Hopkins University. “In short, they are paying something for nothing.”

Congress must dramatically curb deficit spending to instill confidence in investors—who seem to be losing faith in America’s ability to satisfy its obligations, some suggest.
“Deficit spending by the U.S. government is in a runaway scenario," said Mark Thornton, a senior fellow at the classical liberal Mises Institute. "The amount of money that they're borrowing is at extremely elevated levels and there doesn’t seem to be any regulation or even mild attempts to curb the spending side of the fiscal equation.”


The U.S. Treasury building in Washington on March 13, 2023. The Treasury joined other government financial institutions to bail out Silicon Valley Bank's account holders after it collapsed. (Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)

Gigantic Debt
Government debt stood above $33 trillion in fiscal year 2023 (the 12 months that ended on Sept. 30). That’s about $1.7 trillion more than the year before. Interest on the debt has been growing steadily for decades, although at a relatively slow pace to about $570 billion in 2019 from about $350 billion in 1995—an annual increase of some 2 percent.
With the explosion of government spending during the COVID-19 pandemic and the subsequent interest rate increases by the Federal Reserve, the debt cost has skyrocketed by more than 50 percent between 2019 and 2023. Over the past year, it has already surpassed the entire military budget.

The cost is expected to keep growing as old debt issued at low interest rates matures and is rolled over into higher rates.
While the government pays some of the interest to itself, as it holds about 20 percent of the debt in various trusts and funds, interest from that portion of the debt is supposed to pay for future expenses of programs such as Medicare and Social Security.

That money is already slated to go out the door. It just hasn’t gone out the door yet,” said E.J. Antoni, an economist and research fellow at conservative think tank The Heritage Foundation.
“It’s not as if the government has that cash on hand to spend.”

Even with that income counted in, the Medicare Hospital Insurance and Social Security funds are expected to run out of money in about 10 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

The National Debt Clock in Washington on Nov. 13, 2023.(Madalina Vasiliu/The Epoch Times)
Who Pays?
Proponents of large government deficit spending have argued that servicing the debt isn’t much of a worry since the Fed can print the cash necessary to cover the interest or even buy up the debt. The Treasury would then pay the interest on the debt to the Fed, which would then use the money to cover the cost of its operations and send the surplus back to the Treasury. The government would, in effect, pay the interest to itself.

Indeed, about 20 percent of the government debt is held by the Fed already.
However, the reality doesn’t necessarily follow this logic.
“The Federal Reserve doesn’t actually make money anymore," Mr. Antoni said. "They lose money because so much of the Treasuries that they have on the books right now [were] purchased in 2020 and even early 2021 when rates were near zero, so those assets are earning almost nothing,"
Anything the Fed does collect on its portfolio, it immediately pays out to banks and money market funds in interest on reserves and reverse repurchase agreements. The point of those operations is to stem inflation—“keeping liquid cash locked in its vaults so that it can’t multiply in the banking system,” he said.

These operations now cost the central bank some $700 million per day, forcing it into a “huge deficit,” Mr. Antoni said.
“It’s not sending Treasury a dime.”
For the same reason, the Fed seems to lack the appetite for more government debt. Over the past year and a half, it has been slowly reducing its debt holdings, siphoning cash out of the market to curb inflation.

“Any time the Fed buys something, they do it with money that’s being created for that purpose,” he said.
“The Fed actually doesn’t have an account with any balance. Their checking account literally has zero balance so when they sell an asset, the money that goes into that account is extinguished. When they buy an asset, the money that comes out of that account is just created.”

If the Fed were to buy more debt, it would increase the money supply, summoning the specter of inflation even as it’s trying to banish it.
“We would be right back on the inflation treadmill,” Mr. Antoni said.
Bad Credit?
If the government wants to borrow without worsening inflation, it needs to find somebody to buy the debt with existing dollars.
Until recently, that hasn’t been a problem. Despite offering measly interest, U.S. Treasurys served as a safe haven investment—a hedge against risk and an indispensable collateral in complex investment schemes in financial markets.

U.S. Treasurys were seen as the safest asset. And increasingly that’s not the case today,” Mr. Antoni said.
In August, the Fitch rating firm downgraded U.S. debt to AA+ from AAA.
On Nov. 9, the Treasury had the worst auction of 30-year Treasurys in more than a decade as investors demanded a premium to buy the bond. Demand was down by almost 5 percent from the month before.

On Nov. 10, Moody's, another rating firm, lowered the U.S. debt outlook to “negative” from “stable,” arguing that polarization in Congress is likely to thwart fiscal reforms.
“People are increasingly realizing today [that U.S. Treasurys] aren’t safe at all,” Mr. Antoni said.
He pointed out that “violent changes” in monetary policy can dramatically affect bond prices.
Nobody would pay the full price of a bond that pays 2 percent annual interest when the Treasury now offers plenty of bonds that pay 5 percent.

“If you bought a government bond, for example, in 2020, it’s lost about half of its value, so you just can’t sell it," Mr. Antoni said. "You’re essentially stuck with that low rate of return."
Accounting for inflation, the older bonds are now, in fact, losing their owners money, but at least they return something.
“That’s still typically better than the losses you would take if you sold it outright,” he said.

Then, there’s the default risk. Investors are aware that the government will likely one day be unable to pay its debts. So far, that hasn’t been much of an issue, partly because of the “greater fool strategy,” as he put it.

“'I’m betting that there’s a bigger fool out there who, after I want to sell, is still willing to buy, even though that Doomsday, if you will, is right around the corner,'” he said, summing up the strategy. “That may sound silly, but there are plenty of investors and investments that operate on that principle.”

The cooling of demand for the 30-year bonds may be a sign that investors are gradually losing confidence that such a fool will be available over the long haul. The Treasury seems to be responding by offering more of the shorter maturity bonds, according to Mr. Antoni.

Yet inflation poses a similar risk to a default, he said, noting that the dollar has lost about 17 percent of its value over the past few years.
“It’s the same as if the Treasury were to turn around and only pay 83 percent of the bondholders and tell the other 17 percent to go pound sand,” he said.
All these factors seem to be souring investor confidence in the bonds. And once spoiled, investor trust is hard to restore, according to Mr. Hanke.
if they make the USA dollar worth 1/2 they can inflate the debt away ..
 
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