Max Throughput Spec for Amcrest AMDV8M8-HD DVR

[Pogo]

Trying to sort out the max payload options for the DVR above using a variety of 2MP analog cameras set up to their maximum capabilities and hoping to add at least a pair of IP 5s as well. Doesn't seem like it should be a problem, but...

I see mention of an 80Mbps ceiling on some of the Amcrest/Dahua XVRs and horror stories of coughing and gagging just trying to add a single 4k IP camera (at a whopping 7fps) to an otherwise decent little 8CHs of 2MP analog cams cruising along nicely at 30fps and looking great (for what they are and for their particular purposes). Oftentimes the results appear to be semi-permanent even after removing the 'offending' addition. The fix to unscrew everything seems to commonly be resetting the entire system after removing the cam that put things over the edge -- which shouldn't have happened in the first place with 80Mbps of capability, at least IMHO.

On the other hand, I don't claim to understand how that bandwidth is actually allocated among all the processes involved either. I do realize that these 4K DVR boxes touted as 'UltraHD capable' basically render a 4K camera little more than a waste of time and money (and presumably a good camera) on such a platform if you want to use more than one or two at a time with usable results beyond 7 frames per second at any decent resolution whatsoever. That's not my intention, but I am curious about what may be able to squeeze out of this box with just some common sense and a calculation or three.

It's an 8CH Pentibrid box with 8 analog inputs plus 4 IP channels, but could technically also be a 12 channel IP box if one wanted to configure it as such. It does have a GigE port instead of 100FE which makes me wonder if (hope?) the throughput has also been increased to necessitate the additional uplink capability.

Can't find the throughput spec anywhere. Amcrest support is useless. Anyone know?

As usual gang, TIA for any assistance or enlightenment you may care to offer.

 

[wittaj]

Given the price I see for it, it is probably the 80Mbps range.

Even worse is some of these lower end NVR/DVRs with 80Mbps is total bandwidth coming and going, so you are watching it on a phone or two and that is cutting into the bandwidth. The higher end units will give like 320Mbps incoming and 320Mbps outgoing or some number, but it will have an ingoing and outgoing number, whereas the lower end is total bandwidth.

One could crank up a 4MP camera and use 10Mbps, so you can blow past that 80Mbps pretty quickly.

But this unit limits bitrate to 6144, and most will tell you that you need 8192 for 4MP and 12,000 for 4K, so this unit right at the beginning is limiting the quality it can even except regardless of what MP is claims to be able to handle.

 

[Pogo]

Thanks for the input. The available specs are probably even a stretch knowing how these lower end product descriptions are so incredibly skewed and misleading. Hell, I was just happy to find a DVR that even claims to do 8 channels of 1080p/30fps at all for a hundred bux. Thing is, I won't even know that until I load it up to find out -- which I was hoping to avoid by having some additional real world specs to go by before buying any more 2MP cameras and finding out the hard way they all start falling over when I add the fifth or sixth one.

The main purpose of the platform is simply to upgrade my original 720p HD Swann system that has been chugging along flawlessly for the past 7 or 8 years and ended up relegated to just hanging off my Blue Iris server staring at the same old stuff rather poorly by comparison. Tried a few replacement boxes with some cheapie 2MP 4-in-1 cams with rather surprising results and decided to go ahead and look further into a major overhaul since the coax is already there and still like new. I got turned on to the Amcrest unit from another member here who has one and was lucky(?) enough to find a factory refurb from Amcrest that I can still return if I'm not happy with it. So far, I am. Pleasantly so, in fact. I'd just be happier knowing ahead of time that it's not going to crash if I decide to run eight or ten 2MP ~ 4MP cameras through it.

And I see that 80meg usually referred to as max 'input capability' for NVRs which would seem to be a bit different than for a DVR -- depending on what's being referred to as 'input' -- and where considering the differences between analog and IP cameras and how the channelization is determined when changing from analog to IP. I would presume it all happens at the encoding stage regardless of camera type?

I guess the mystery to me is why there's a GigE LAN interface if it's only a 40-in / 40-out device, or even 80Mbps straight through -- and no specs anywhere to provide details.

 

[Pogo]

So this DVR fell on its ass just by adding two 4MP IP cameras to three 2MP AHD cameras at the DVR published bit and frame rates with a combination of H264 and H265 encoding respectively.

Aside from possibly a defective unit (it is a factory refurb), what could I be doing wrong to arrive at such horribly unacceptable performance totally contrary to what they claim the unit will do? I've given up on their support group --( at least the weekend crew )-- and there just isn't much out there on this unit. I've tried to cross-ref it to a Dahua equivalent hoping for additional information with no luck.

Bit rates of 512 to 1024 and frame rates of 7 ~ 12fps aren't what I'm looking for as acceptable DVR solutions. I can get that with a $40 Zosi box.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah, that is unfortunately what is to be expected from a budget unit.

They give these great MP claims, but then the requirements to push that is pathetic and useless.

Just like cars come with estimated MPG that are under ideal conditions, the specs of these things are under ideal conditions and real world shows they cannot meet every rated spec.

I couldn't find any detailed specs on this, so that is usually a sign they suck.

 

[Pogo]

There's still some wiggle room before deciding to send it back. I really have no need for the IP capability and was just dumping some load through it at what is an approximate 8 channel load of encoded 1080P 2MP AHD cameras..., depending of course how much processing power is derailed from normal analog conversion to the IP function.

As mentioned earlier, all I want is something to give me 8 channels of 1080P 2.1MP HD @30fps somewhere in the ballpark of a 2048br. Doesn't seem like an unreasonable expectation from Amcrest or anyone else for that matter. Problem is, Amcrest is about the only game in town that doesn't want to shove all the 'Lite' crap down your throat and is the reason I got the unit -- which isn't exactly cheap new with a decent sized HDD.

Anyway, thanks for letting me share my frustration of the moment. I have a couple more analog cams on the way (including an Amcrest) and a couple POE'd Wyze cams I intend to experiment with before throwing in the towel. This will actually be a halfway decent box if it works as advertised when not using the IP feature. That HAS to be gobbling up resources that would likely be available for the analog side of things otherwise.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah the IP is probably chewing a lot more bandwidth than the analog.

Do keep in mind that very few people here run 30FPS.

15FPS is more than enough. Movies are shot at 24FPS, so 15FPS is more than enough for phones, tablets, and monitors LOL.

Shutter speed is much more important than FPS.

Watch these, for most of us, it isn't annoying until below 10FPS

 

[Pogo]

I understand and appreciate all that. I prefer real time observation for my particular purposes, which are very basic home surveillance requirements. I'm not a schmega-pixel guy and generally prefer more cameras than more pixels. The demand to read a license plate 100' away when a guy is running through my back yard waving one in the air isn't a major requirement. Plus, I have a shotgun for that. LOL

My setup is more along the lines of just having 'extra windows' for general outdoor visibility than anything else. If I need detail I have a handful of 5MP cams in the desired places and Blue Iris available on a 4K TV. Otherwise it's a 24" 1080 monitor with BI on the kitchen counter or one of the other TVs with either TinyCam Pro or VLC for basic monitoring purposes.

I also have a barn/shop with a few cams hung off a point-to-point wi-fi bridge that is easily handled with lower end devices. I spent many, many hours eliminating latency from that situation and the thought of intentionally re-introducing it anywhere on my network for any reason is simply an unacceptable thought and no longer in my DNA. Ha!

So it'll be interesting tp see how an Amcrest HD-CVI 2MP cam works with their DVR. My money is on a hot-rodded POE v3 Mini_Hacks Wyze Cam cleanly blowing its doors off, especially at night. I'll be happy if it's even close, provided the DVR actually handles the additional analog load when I fire up the new cams.

So out of curiosity, and if I bail on this unit, any tips on where to look for something else in the ballpark, maybe even used? As you can see, my needs are minimal on the analog front. I just can't believe how limited the selection has become for a basic 1080P HD box.

'Preciate your time and input.

 

[Pogo]

So after quite a bit of messing around and getting more familiar with this unit, it pretty much does what I was hoping for and then some -- with the exception being a throughput limitation of 48Mbps however you want to slice or allocate it. For the basic purpose and actual demands put on the unit (after I put my expectations into a realistic perspective), I highly doubt there's anything else out there that will even come close for 100 bucks.

One of the surprise features is the ability to view the OSDs of analog cameras on a real monitor instead of them needing to be accessed while up a ladder using the cheesy little joystick trying to see the changes on a phone. That was a game changer for me right there. IP cameras can also be used with on all channels, not just the ones designated as IP channels. Not exactly in the operator's manual, but can be done. Recording setup is stupid simple and the multi-zones for individual cameras is also an easy feature to implement. Finding events is less than convenient, but easier as I get used to it. That said, what I'm recording so far is redundant 24/7 streams of cameras that are event based on Blue Iris. Another reason for an XVR that can handle IP cameras.

At present I'm running eight analog 2MP 1080Ps @30fps/2048 with substreams, two IP 4MP 2560 x 1440s @20fps/2048 and two hot rod ethernet WyzeCam v3s at 1080p @20fps/2048. I still have headroom according to a realtime counter I also disovered on the unit. The only weird-ass issue is how the WyzeCam encoding resolution is being reported by the unit as QQVGA which is even lower than their 'SD' setting for low bandwidth conditions. The image seems fine otherwise even displayed on the 4K TV the DVR is plugged into as its display. Any creative thoughts or suggestions there would certainly be welcomed.

Anyway, I ended up being happy with this thing after all. Thanks for the input. And thanks to @Flintstone61 for his tip on the unit back when I was just kickin' tires.