Low Light Color Overview Camera - IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED vs IPC-HDW5442T-ZE vs IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED

[CaptainCrunch]

I am looking for a good low light color camera to cover around an 80-90 degree field of view. I have a IPC-HDW5442T-ZE set up in the area and considered a second one but I can't say I'm pleased with the night color results. I'm not sure if there just isn't enough light or if there's a wi-fi issue or what. But I know I want a second camera anyway so I can zoom that one in for better identification. It looks like the IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED 3.6mm may have some good performance but it's also labeled EOL. I don't see a comparable WizMind-S version of that 4k camera but I do see the 8k IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED (IPC-Color4K-T). It looks like the IPC-Color4K-T may have the best minimum low light requirement. Would that be offset by the increase in pixels? Should the IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED still be considered even though it is EOL? Or is the IPC-HDW5442T-ZE set in color mode at night the best way to go? I'm looking to cover up to around 80 feet out from where the camera would be set up. I can sacrifice up close performance because I will have the existing camera to cover that area. There are house lights and street lights that provide a decent amount of light. I don't mind paying a little more money for more performance. Any other camera recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I'm new to all this but I'm trying to figure it out.

$160 IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED
$190 IPC-HDW5442T-ZE
$230 IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LE

 

[wittaj]

I wouldn't be worried about EOL cameras.

The 5442-LED cannot see infrared, so if you are disappointed with the performance of the 5442-ZE you have now in color, then the LED version will not work for you either.

The 4K/T is a great camera, but it as well cannot see infrared, so you need either enough light or be willing to use the built-in white LED lights. Plus it is a fixed lens so IDENTIFY is in the 15ish foot range. They do not have a varifocal in the 4K series.

But none of the cameras you have selected are going to IDENTIFY at 80 feet out, especially at night. You might get some detect and observe at 80 feet if you have enough light, but it will be blobs moving.

What are your goals at 80 feet out (and with a 90 degree view) - is it DETECT, OBSERVE, RECOGNIZE, or IDENTIFY?

At 80 feet out you need either the 5442-Z4E or the 5241-Z12E or a PTZ in order to IDENTIFY.

But all cameras need light to perform - either infrared or white light.

And when you try to do color at night, the amount of white light needed is important. Too many try for color at night without enough light and are then disappointed with the results.

Just because a camera says full color doesn't mean it is magic - it still needs light or it will perform poorly.

See this thread on the importance of focal length over MP.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[CaptainCrunch]

My goal is more of an overview. Mostly for identifying the color of the things in the IR images. Right now, the lone driveway camera, a IPC-HDW5442T-ZE, is covering out to about 50 feet. I'd like to shorten its coverage to about 20-25 feet for better recognition or identification but I want to observe the whole area. The primary motivation for starting this was people coming into the neighborhood pulling on door handles. I would like to get a good image of them up close and I would like any details about their vehicle. I have a IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E set up to catch plates and I's still trying to get the night settings correct. Once I can get the first one dialed in, I'll add a second one for the other direction. But that's for another thread after I get it off the test platform and mounted in it's permanent spot. The list of cameras came down to a number of threads on here and looking at the minimum illumination. I've read the threads on the myth or more MP so my choice of the 4k camera isn't based on it being 4k. It's based on the listed. minimum illumination.

 

[wittaj]

Keep in mind that the listed minimum illumination is based on a wide open, slowed down shutter to make the LUX rating as low as possible. Most here don't put a lot of value in that. That is why you don't put much stock in these ratings. Every manufacturer tweaks their camera to get the "best" lux rating it can, but nobody would run the camera in the settings they did to get the lux ratings. These lux ratings are many times at 1/3s shutter, which would be a bright static image, but complete motion blur.

I can make a cheap $40 camera look like noon when it is midnight, but motion will be a complete blur because gain is at 100% and shutter is at 1/10.

You need a minimum of 1/60 shutter to start to minimize blur.

So at 80 feet, the 4K camera will be useless to "get a good image of them up close and I would like any details about their vehicle" You can probably get color of the car and their clothing, but that is about it.

But as a true overview camera, the 4k/t is a great choice.

Take a look at this post where I compared different cameras (MP and focal length including the cameas you are looking at in this thread) for a car in the 80-100 foot range.

Worlds First Review - Dahua DH-IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED / IPC-Color4K-T - 2.8mm Turret

My 4K-T works fantastic. I am using the G-711A and the mic is very hot but quite manageable and crisp.

ipcamtalk.com

 

[CaptainCrunch]

So at 80 feet, the 4K camera will be useless to "get a good image of them up close and I would like any details about their vehicle" You can probably get color of the car and their clothing, but that is about it.

But as a true overview camera, the 4k/t is a great choice.

I can see where I could stated that better. I would like use both cameras to get a good image of them up close and I would like any details about their vehicle. The current IPC-HDW5442T-ZE would be set to get the good image and while the new camera would be the overview camera and would get the color details. Based on a quick look at the linked post, it seems the larger sensor in the 4k/t helps to offset some of extra light needed by the higher mp. And it comes in black which is an added bonus.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah, in that case I think the 4K/T would be a great fit. I am amazed how little light is needed, but it still needs light.

But you can see just in shutter speed how much faster you can run it and still get a brighter image than say a 5442 running at a slower shutter.

We are waiting for the day they come out with it in varifocal!

I just didn't want you thinking it was magic. Many come here and wonder why they can't digital zoom and get a cleann image with a 4K 2.8mm camera at 80 feet LOL.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

I used to deal with surveillance footage but I was the one given the poor resolution videos, not the one recording it. I've seen the limitations of a lot of the home camera system bundles. All I can do is shake my head when CSI would enhance a frame from a video to the point they can see someone holding a gun in the reflection of someone's eye.

Thanks for your help here.

 

[wittaj]

I used to deal with surveillance footage but I was the one given the poor resolution videos, not the one recording it. I've seen the limitations of a lot of the home camera system bundles. All I can do is shake my head when CSI would enhance a frame from a video to the point they can see someone holding a gun in the reflection of someone's eye.

Thanks for your help here.

Wouldn't it be nice if it worked that way LOL.

People believe everything they watch on TV and in the movies.

 

[looney2ns]

If you've not yet, study this: Cliff Notes
And this: Camera Suggestions

 

[bigredfish]

Agree with all stated above, but owning both the Turret 4K-T and the bullet 4K-X in 3.6mm, I'd recommend the bullet.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

Agree with all stated above, but owning both the Turret 4K-T and the bullet 4K-X in 3.6mm, I'd recommend the bullet.

Is there a particular reason for that?

 

[bigredfish]

IMHO its a better image. The bullet also has more LED's, and again IMHO, better depth of field.

They do have different chips, but I could not tell you the specific chip differences.

 

[wittaj]

In addition, the bullet has the camera GUI most of us are familiar with. The turret is the newer GUI that most are not a fan of.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

Good to know. I haven’t seen the new gui. So I’m probably be better off sticking to what I know until I learn more.