Labor Cost to do Cat run and mounting camera in Northern California ?

J Sigmo

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As much of a pain as it can be to DIY some things, the advantages are often worthwhile.

You end up understanding everything, which makes additions and modifications easier. You save some money. You get the job done exactly the way you want, etc.

Even if you don't end up doing it all yourself, you will know exactly what you want and understand what the contractor should be doing. You might be able to do a lot of the work, and just have some of the hard or special-equipment work done for you. So it can't hurt to at least study everything as if you will be doing it yourself.

Knowing what the codes require and how do do everything safely and efficiently will serve you well whether or not you end up doing any or all of it yourself.

I also think most people get into this initially wanting and expecting it to be a fast, easy job, and just wanting to flip a switch and have an ideal system up and running right away. That's sort of how I thought of it all initially. I was too anxious to have it done fast.

In the end, even though you won't have a working system as quickly as you may have envisioned at first, you will likely end up with a much better system if you take some time and just lurk here for a while.

Looking at a lot of the camera capture videos on here will demonstrate how ineffective a lot of the footage really ends up being in terms of actionable positive identification, etc. And that will really affect how you decide to choose and position your cameras.

And your system will likely evolve even after initially setting something up. And that is another place where DIY is helpful. Most of us couldn't afford to pay contractors to move and add cameras as we decide to improve our systems. But doing things ourselves makes tweaks, additions, etc., practical.

As Looney suggests, trial and error with camera placement is a really good idea. That all takes time. But in the end, you need to know exactly where you'll want everything before hiring someone to do the installation if you go that route.

It's worth buying some special tools if you do things yourself. And always be safe. Falling off of a ladder is a lot more expensive than even your really high quotes, of course. Make sure the contractors are bonded and insured, too.
 

TonyR

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Oh, come on, @fenderman! Are you telling me that doctorate in "gender studies" won't earn that grad a huge salary when he/she/it graduates?
Oh, yeah.... that particular doctorate will come in handy when they're cleaning MacTables or mowing 8 lawns a day. :rolleyes:

Gotta earn enough $$$ to pay that trades-certified person to fix your HVAC, fix your car, and install that water heater because you never learned how to pour pee out of boot even when the instructions were written on the heel.

I've seen 20 year old males that can't even change a tire...heard about one just last week that did not know how to use jumper cables...even my wife knows how to do that for crying out loud. :facepalm:

God help us.....
 

looney2ns

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The trades are really struggling right now to get new folks to replace the retirees.
Neighbor is a retired heavy equipment operator, the past 10yrs, he mainly did crane work. Up to 250' booms, heavy lift stuff.
He retired 1.5 yrs ago, they call him on a regular basis trying to get him to come out of retirement, because they don't have enough operators.
So, he's back to working 6 days per month.....when he wants to.
The trainee's they give him for crane operator and I quote "I don't even bother to learn their names anymore, because they won't be here after 2-3 days".

He was making in the 6 figure range, and guess what? No $200,000 in student loan debt. College isn't always the answer, but getting off your ass and doing something is.
 

looney2ns

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Oh, yeah.... that particular doctorate will come in handy when they're cleaning MacTables or mowing 8 lawns a day. :rolleyes:

Gotta earn enough $$$ to pay that trades-certified person to fix your HVAC, fix your car, and install that water heater because you never learned how to pour pee out of boot even when the instructions were written on the heel.

I've seen 20 year old males that can't even change a tire...heard about one just last week that did not know how to use jumper cables...even my wife knows how to do that for crying out loud. :facepalm:

God help us.....
He probably didn't know what jumper cables were.

Neighbor, had a dog pass away. The daughter and her boy friend, both in their mid 20's, were going to bury the pet in the back yard. She came over and ask me to show them how to...............use the shovels to dig a hole. Heck I was digging holes when I was 7 or 8.
 

J Sigmo

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There are a lot of young folks who haven't gotten any experience, training, or play in basic logic, troubleshooting, every day mechanics, electrical, plumbing, carpentry, etc., as they grew up.

I suppose it's always been that way to some degree depending on where a person grows up. There's a difference between growing up on a farm or ranch and being raised in a big city living in an apartment. And there are all sorts of situations between.

So it's always been true that some folks learn more hands on type skills than others. But it does seem like it is getting worse over time.

Kids these days are not allowed to do anything on their own, play outside, get dirty, etc., in part because of the litigious nature of our society.

The Overprotected Kid

And another part of the problem is the lack of respect shown for the trades by many people. Parents encourage their kids to go to college, and that's good. But they also denigrate careers in the trades, and that's foolish.

Not everyone is cut out to be an engineer or a doctor. And for the sake of just getting a college degree, parents will let kids choose courses of study that may not have any promise of a viable career.

I am so grateful to have had the childhood that I had. We were allowed to do a lot on our own, use "dangerous" tools, even power tools (after coaching), from an early age. We played and built "forts" outside and scavenged from junk piles, etc. Taking things apart, building things, etc., were appreciated. All mostly unsupervised.

Yeah, we got hurt at times, but nothing life-threatening. We were allowed to try and fail as well as succeed. That's how you learn and also gain self-confidence and pride in a job well-done. We didn't get "participation awards", but we were encouraged.

I was whining about this all to my son's wife, and she really opened my eyes.

If you allow your kids to do the things we did routinely when I was a kid, you now end up having the police (seriously) or DFS called on you. They, the parents are judged (and watched) constantly by everyone. It is absolutely sickening how nosey the "state" and most of the busybodies are. You're not allowed to parent as you see fit anymore.

She really unloaded on me for several hours about everything they, as parents, go through nowadays. And they live in a relatively small town in Wyoming. I can only imagine how bad it is in more urban areas.

Because of the education system, primarily, and liberal "the state knows best" indoctrination and policies, having an enriching childhood is no longer possible.

Teachers and parents alike are not free to give the kids any freedom, independence, or exposure to even slight danger or the possibility of failure. My daughter in law and my son are the best parents I know. And yet, because of what they are forced to deal with, and the way the schools are, it is far far harder for them to bring their kids up well than it was for us or our parents. It is sickening to say the least.

It doesn't surprise me to find young adults who can't use a shovel, or change a tire, or jump-start a car. You go to jail, now, or at least get sued or fired if you expose a kid to any of these incredibly dangerous situations. No parent or "responsible adult" can take the risk to their freedom or career to let a kid do anything that could ever result in even a minor injury.
 

looney2ns

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:goodpost:

It's much worse than it once was.

Support Mr Rowe's cause: mikeroweWORKS Foundation

My daughter in law was just telling me that she has been put in charge at her job for creating community programs to teach COLLEGE grads, how to deal with everyday life. Check books, bank accounts, etc. Sure glad I don't live in a nanny state or community. The best child experts, don't have any.:screwy:
 

tangent

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:goodpost:

It's much worse than it once was.

Support Mr Rowe's cause: mikeroweWORKS Foundation

My daughter in law was just telling me that she has been put in charge at her job for creating community programs to teach COLLEGE grads, how to deal with everyday life. Check books, bank accounts, etc. Sure glad I don't live in a nanny state or community. The best child experts, don't have any.:screwy:
When I was in ELEMENTARY school they had a program where we learned to write pretend checks and balance pretend check books. You had to pay pretend fees for things like turning in an assignment late and I don't remember the particulars but there was some scenario in which a low or negative balance meant no recess. I actually learned Gauss-Jordan elimination in 7th grade which shocked one of my college roommates (my 7th grade math teacher was pretty amazing unlike my lazy ass ap calc teacher).

I do think there's a place for exposing high school students to different types of retirement accounts, mock stock markets, the value of saving and investing your money, entrepreneurship, and things like calculating the cost of having the latest and greatest iPhone over their lifetime (spoiler alert: it's around $300k).
 

mat200

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When I was in ELEMENTARY school they had a program where we learned to write pretend checks and balance pretend check books. You had to pay pretend fees for things like turning in an assignment late and I don't remember the particulars but there was some scenario in which a low or negative balance meant no recess. I actually learned Gauss-Jordan elimination in 7th grade which shocked one of my college roommates (my 7th grade math teacher was pretty amazing unlike my lazy ass ap calc teacher).

I do think there's a place for exposing high school students to different types of retirement accounts, mock stock markets, the value of saving and investing your money, entrepreneurship, and things like calculating the cost of having the latest and greatest iPhone over their lifetime (spoiler alert: it's around $300k).
I recall wood shop and auto shop in High School... as well as drivers / health ed - where they actually taught you about car mechanics

Heard they've ditched these classes.. very unfortunate for us
 

tangent

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I recall wood shop and auto shop in High School... as well as drivers / health ed - where they actually taught you about car mechanics

Heard they've ditched these classes.. very unfortunate for us
Auto shop was still around when I was in high school, it was just centralized and enough of the kids in the program were complete assholes a lot of my classmates didn't want anything to do with it even if they liked cars. In every wood shop class I took there was always at least one person who cut a finger off.

I see a different systemic cause of some of the problems in our education system, an over emphasis on standardized testing. The testing companies do extensive lobbying to maximize testing (and their profits) and the rest of the system suffers. Programs that don't fit the test get cut. Interesting things teachers would like to do that don't perfectly fit the mold of the test get cut. I actually wrote a long rant on the subject as my response to an essay question that was a little too open ended on a standardized test in high school. It's also well documented that large class sizes negatively affect student performance.

Technical and problem solving in education is changing and I think it's actually making a resurgence. More kids today are exposed to things like 3D Cad / Printing, laser cutters, basic electronics, robotics, and programming. There may be less wood and auto shop and that's a shame. Science fairs are making a resurgence.

For me, the biggest tragedy in education is they way our elementary schools systematically kill the innate curiosity children have (this could have changed some since I was a kid). They do this by demanding conformity and dismissing questions and subjects the teachers don't want to be bothered with in the name of making their classrooms easier to manage. My standardized testing rant comes in to play here too.
 

Fastb

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JSIGMO,

Kids these days are not allowed to do anything on their own, play outside, get dirty, etc., in part because of the litigious nature of our society.

The Overprotected Kid
Thanks for the link to that article. It was a thoughtful article, and I agree with the premise that childhood has changed. Kid independence is reduced, (like roaming the neighborhood, unsupervised, with friends). Kids exposure to risk and danger is reduced, which the article points out about how playgrounds have become sterile due to risk aversion. (Few monkey bars, tall slides, big swings, etc). And heaven forbid, a see-saw!

J Sigmo, I also appreciate the time you took to write your reply. We share many of the same sentiments! eg:
We played and built "forts" outside and scavenged from junk piles, etc. Taking things apart, building things, etc., were appreciated. All mostly unsupervised.
As a boy , starting in 2nd or 3rd grade, I had a pocket knife. Whittling was fun. In today's "nanny" society, a parent who lets their kid have a "Boy Scout Knife" could be ostracized, and accused of being a bad parent.

Back in the day, if someone asked my mom
"Do you know where your kids are?",
she'd say
"No. But they'll be home for supper."
And mom would think the question was a bit odd.
Nowadays, if a mom says she doesn't know where her kids are, she might be labeled as an irresponsible parent.
Even if the question is asked at 4pm, when the kids are out playing after school.

The linked article, above, ( The Overprotected Kid ) says it better than I can.
I broke bones, twice, before 10th grade. Received stitches. Nobody really blinked.
My daughter broke a wrist, and later, a finger. My wife and I were questioned. The gist was "why are your kids getting hurt?", followed by questions about our parenting.

Thankfully, my daughter wasn't coddled, and she's responsibly managing her need for Adrenalin. (inherited from me). She's skydived, para-sailed, loves back-country skiing (even after being in an avalanche), gotten my car on 3 wheels at the racetrack, cruised Vietnam, Thailand & Cambodia with her fiance on a well-used motorcycle they bought in-country, etc. That bike sometimes broke down. No 'Helicopter Parents' to come to the rescue! They turned wrenches, asked for guidance from strangers, and solved the problem.

I've been asked by adults "Why do you let her do so-and-so?"
me: " 'Let Her' ?" then
"She makes her own choices. And I encourage her in those activities!"

Thanks for reading,
Fastb
 
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We had 2 cameras installed along with an exterior sconce light (110v) on 12/31/18. Cost was 480. Three guys (one was an apprentice) for 3 hours.

We are in Reno which is becoming east California.
 

looney2ns

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When I was in ELEMENTARY school they had a program where we learned to write pretend checks and balance pretend check books. You had to pay pretend fees for things like turning in an assignment late and I don't remember the particulars but there was some scenario in which a low or negative balance meant no recess. I actually learned Gauss-Jordan elimination in 7th grade which shocked one of my college roommates (my 7th grade math teacher was pretty amazing unlike my lazy ass ap calc teacher).

I do think there's a place for exposing high school students to different types of retirement accounts, mock stock markets, the value of saving and investing your money, entrepreneurship, and things like calculating the cost of having the latest and greatest iPhone over their lifetime (spoiler alert: it's around $300k).
Yep, we had savings accounts (real) with the local bank in 2nd grade on. A rep from the bank came monthly to collect any money you wanted to put into savings, and he wrote the amount in (OMG) a passbook! That continued through 6th grade. We had wood shop in 7th and 8th grade. We used the man killer hand saws, skill saws, table saws, hammers, etc. and the famous board stretcher. 7th grade we had economics, which involved budgets, checking accounts, simple accounting, etc. Had advanced economics in high school that expanded on such. Again, wood shop, along with metal shop, welding, and drafting.

My dad was always a DIY'r around the house, by the time I was 4-5, if he was working on something, I was their helping whether I liked it or not. That continued until I was married and moved out. :)
 
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