IVS vs. h265+ smart codec vs. motion detection

DReffects

n3wb
Dec 5, 2018
20
4
Austria
Hey Guys,

just wanted to ask about your experience with IVS "enter/leave area" mode vs. Motion detection.

I was under the impression that I'd be able to use h265+ (smart codec) and IVS at the same time since the dahua datasheet did not tell otherwise. Atm I'm a bit disappointed due to the limitation.
(Will this be fixed in the future?)

I am looking at a more or less static image - an entire houre 5MP 20fps clip takes up 170MB of disk space with smart codec - that increases drastically with smart codec switched off.

Currently I find the motion detection to be unreliable as it reacts also to light changes. Is your experience with IVS + enter/exit area better? I'd be willing to turn off continouus recording but then motion detection has to work perfectly.

Thanks :)

Device Type IPC-HDW4631EM-ASE
 
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Hey Guys,

just wanted to ask about your experience with IVS "enter/leave area" mode vs. Motion detection.

I was under the impression that I'd be able to use h265+ (smart codec) and IVS at the same time since the dahua datasheet did not tell otherwise. Atm I'm a bit disappointed due to the limitation.
(Will this be fixed in the future?)

I am looking at a more or less static image - an entire houre 5MP 20fps clip takes up 170MB of disk space with smart codec - that increases drastically with smart codec switched off.

Currently I find the motion detection to be unreliable as it reacts also to light changes. Is your experience with IVS + enter/exit area better? I'd be willing to turn off continouus recording but then motion detection has to work perfectly.

Thanks :)

Device Type IPC-HDW4631EM-ASE
It wont be "fixed" as it was never intended to be used together as the camera does not have sufficient processing power. Hikvision cameras has the same limitation. The standard motion detection in the camera is useless. Line crossing is useful.
 
It wont be "fixed" as it was never intended to be used together as the camera does not have sufficient processing power. Hikvision cameras has the same limitation. The standard motion detection in the camera is useless. Line crossing is useful.

Thanks for the info. Dahua really should update their promotional material here as it gives no clue to such limitation. The whole point for me was to have features like line crossing AND a low bandwidth continuous recording. Goal was to have four cameras with 3 months retention. That's now simply impossible due to the high bandwidth demands, even with h265.

I've experimented with line crossing and intrusion detection yesterday and do not seem to get this to work properly. Perhaps I don't understand the feature fully. Here's a screenshot:
Unbenannt.JPG

I'd expected that as soon as something hits the tripwire an alarm would be triggered. Unfortunately this is not the case. If someone walks up the driveway in about 50% of the time nothing happens, the other 50% the tripwire reacts only after the pearson has completely passed the tripwire and reached the garbage bins. Same with the intrusion detection area. At night it seems to be even worse, the camera does not seem to be able to identify a pearson walking up the driveway as "motion" in general. I also do not see any options for sensitivity with IVS.

The detection areas are set at 100x100 min and 1500x3000 max

It my setup bad?

Is there a camera that supports both smart codec and IVS?
 
Thanks for the info. Dahua really should update their promotional material here as it gives no clue to such limitation. The whole point for me was to have features like line crossing AND a low bandwidth continuous recording. Goal was to have four cameras with 3 months retention. That's now simply impossible due to the high bandwidth demands, even with h265.

I've experimented with line crossing and intrusion detection yesterday and do not seem to get this to work properly. Perhaps I don't understand the feature fully. Here's a screenshot:
View attachment 35931

I'd expected that as soon as something hits the tripwire an alarm would be triggered. Unfortunately this is not the case. If someone walks up the driveway in about 50% of the time nothing happens, the other 50% the tripwire reacts only after the pearson has completely passed the tripwire and reached the garbage bins. Same with the intrusion detection area. At night it seems to be even worse, the camera does not seem to be able to identify a pearson walking up the driveway as "motion" in general. I also do not see any options for sensitivity with IVS.

The detection areas are set at 100x100 min and 1500x3000 max

It my setup bad?

Is there a camera that supports both smart codec and IVS?
Dahuas promotional material is for experienced installers. They dont want to sell to you. H265 is not "high bandwidth" in fact most installations use 264. There are many threads explaining how to properly setup line crossing.
 
Dahuas promotional material is for experienced installers. They dont want to sell to you. H265 is not "high bandwidth" in fact most installations use 264.
Its very true that I am not really experienced in this area. Infact, those Dahua cameras are my very first :) Sorry about that.

Speaking of bandwidth: In my driveway I average out at around 120-170 MB /hour (~270-390kbps) with h265 smart codec - That's well within the fact sheets from dahua and really was what I was expecting.
I've planned my setup with 2x2TB disks to store 90 days of video from 4 cams. (~150MB * 24 hours * 4 Cams * 90 days == ~1,3 Terabyte) So I am very happy with the smart codec.

On the other hand even the h265 stream of the scene above needs a constant 1-3mbps. This would blow up my storage needs to ~12 Terabyte.
There are many threads explaining how to properly setup line crossing.
Do you have a link at hand? :)
 
Storage changes based on the complexity of the image and the amount of motion. Two identical cameras with identical setting can have very different storage requirements for the same amount of time. My outside camera that covers my front door, uses 100MB per hour. The front door camera is mostly looking a a white brick wall. The living room, with dogs and people takest 500 mb per hour. While at night the Living room drops to 250MB per hour. I am using h.264.

I have 12 active cameras with frame rates between 8 and 15. And use about 135 gb per day.
 
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If someone walks up the driveway in about 50% of the time nothing happens, the other 50% the tripwire reacts only after the pearson has completely passed the tripwire and reached the garbage bins. Same with the intrusion detection area. At night it seems to be even worse, the camera does not seem to be able to identify a pearson walking up the driveway as "motion" in general. I also do not see any options for sensitivity with IVS.
The camera needs time to identify movement and classify it as an object. If the camera identifies an object after the object has already crossed the tripwire (something that seems common when a tripwire is drawn near the edge of the image), then you will not get a notification.

The usual way around this is to replace tripwires with intrusion detection boxes, making sure you have the "Appears" and "Enter/Exit" options checked. "Appears" will cause an alert if an object suddenly appears within the borders of an intrusion detection box, which is what happens when the camera doesn't identify the object before it enters the box.

Are you using VBR? For relatively static scenes, that can help reduce the bandwidth/storage size. Also consider reducing your FPS. I use 15 FPS for pretty much everything around the outside of my house. That's also a chance to reduce your bandwidth/storage by 25%.
 
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Storage changes based on the complexity of the image and the amount of motion. Two identical cameras with identical setting can have very different storage requirements for the same amount of time. My outside camera that covers my front door, uses 100mb per hour. The front door camera is mostly looking a a white brick wall Th living room, with dogs and people takest 500 mb per hour. While at night the Living room drops to 250 mb per hour. I am using h.264.

I have 12 active cameras with frame rates between 8 and 15. And use about 135 gb per day.

What resolution and Settings do you have? I am no where near those values. (unless you're talking about smart codec) With h265 VBR at 20fps, 40 frames iframe interval and a max bitrate of 4096kbit the camera stores about 1.3 GB Of data every hour. That's about ~2500kbps and for a completely static scene. No movement at all.

The camera needs time to identify movement and classify it as an object. If the camera identifies an object after the object has already crossed the tripwire (something that seems common when a tripwire is drawn near the edge of the image), then you will not get a notification.

The usual way around this is to replace tripwires with intrusion detection boxes, making sure you have the "Appears" and "Enter/Exit" options checked. "Appears" will cause an alert if an object suddenly appears within the borders of an intrusion detection box, which is what happens when the camera doesn't identify the object before it enters the box.

Are you using VBR? For relatively static scenes, that can help reduce the bandwidth/storage size. Also consider reducing your FPS. I use 15 FPS for pretty much everything around the outside of my house. That's also a chance to reduce your bandwidth/storage by 25%.
Yes, VBR is enabled.

Interesting about the tripwire. The camera seems to having a hard time to identify objects moving towards the camera. When someone is walking up the driveway no motion is being detected. From the cameras point of view it's an object that "scales up" at it moves towards the entrance. Is the camera unable to detect this as a change/motion in general? If so, the whole motion detection system would only work with vertical or horizontal movement?

I've tested with intrusion boxes as well - same problem: the camera fails to identify a person walking up the driveway most of the times. Also it seems to be a problem if the object does not enter the intrusion box completely (which is what I guess causes the 'appears' setting to not work properly), something that is not really possible unless you're walking down to the garbage bins on my screenshot. Due to the perspective the head and shoulders often stay outside of the intrusion box / tripwire.

So is my camera location the core issue? What can you recommend? I want to get the faces of people walking up the driveway, record that (the 'record the previous 5 seconds before event' option does not work as expected either btw...) and have a low bitrate continous recording (which would be awesome with smart codec^^)

Thanks for sticking with me - I am most certainly a n00b here :D
 
I ended up moving to Blue Iris for my recordings, so it's been awhile since I've messed with IVS. Is there any way you can share a video like below that shows the zone and what was detected as motion? That might shed some clues/suggestions. In the example below, the camera had a difficult time identifying the person leaving the house because the contrast between the person and the dark gray wall behind him was low. I ended up having to enable WDR, which made everything on the porch a bit brighter and solved that issue.

 
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What resolution and Settings do you have? I am no where near those values. (unless you're talking about smart codec) With h265 VBR at 20fps, 40 frames iframe interval and a max bitrate of 4096kbit the camera stores about 1.3 GB Of data every hour. That's about ~2500kbps and for a completely static scene. No movement at all.


Yes, VBR is enabled.

Interesting about the tripwire. The camera seems to having a hard time to identify objects moving towards the camera. When someone is walking up the driveway no motion is being detected. From the cameras point of view it's an object that "scales up" at it moves towards the entrance. Is the camera unable to detect this as a change/motion in general? If so, the whole motion detection system would only work with vertical or horizontal movement?

I've tested with intrusion boxes as well - same problem: the camera fails to identify a person walking up the driveway most of the times. Also it seems to be a problem if the object does not enter the intrusion box completely (which is what I guess causes the 'appears' setting to not work properly), something that is not really possible unless you're walking down to the garbage bins on my screenshot. Due to the perspective the head and shoulders often stay outside of the intrusion box / tripwire.

So is my camera location the core issue? What can you recommend? I want to get the faces of people walking up the driveway, record that (the 'record the previous 5 seconds before event' option does not work as expected either btw...) and have a low bitrate continous recording (which would be awesome with smart codec^^)

Thanks for sticking with me - I am most certainly a n00b here :D

Have you tried the good old motion detection? It might work better for this scenario.
 
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@DReffects

I would setup an alarm sensor - and feed that to the NVR or IP POE camera which has an alarm input.

That should give you the best results imho.
 
I ended up moving to Blue Iris for my recordings, so it's been awhile since I've messed with IVS. Is there any way you can share a video like below that shows the zone and what was detected as motion? That might shed some clues/suggestions. In the example below, the camera had a difficult time identifying the person leaving the house because the contrast between the person and the dark gray wall behind him was low. I ended up having to enable WDR, which made everything on the porch a bit brighter and solved that issue.
Thanks for the Tip! Is there a trial version of Blue Iris available?

Have you tried the good old motion detection? It might work better for this scenario.
Motion detection was a desaster. It recorded and alerted every time the camera made a switch from day to night mode and also went crazy when the sensor light of my driveway was activated (and then deactivated a few minutes later).

@DReffects
I would setup an alarm sensor - and feed that to the NVR or IP POE camera which has an alarm input.
That should give you the best results imho.
You mean something like a light barrier? Do you have a link for that? :)
 
..
You mean something like a light barrier? Do you have a link for that? :)

Hi @DReffects

That or another alarm sensor. I don't have any links, however there should be a few good references you can search for here on IPCT.
 
I was having trouble setting up IVS on the NVR itself.. for some reason the box would not show up on the live preview no matter what I did.. maybe missed something?
B.

I had better luck with Smartpss... intrusion boxes show up for me on preview after using SmartPSS
I noticed that I had two areas to draw a box... the actual detection zone, and the rule itself.....
Took me a few to realize the detection zone box was related to the zone it actually began to detect the object... at first I was drawing that box similar or trying to make it the same as the intrusion zone rule itself.
Were you possibly making this mistake?
If you do not draw a detection zone I believe the default is the full camera view.