Is this the best set out for my current needs?

[johnlux]

Hey guys,
I am new to this industry, looking to install a DAHUA POE system at the property where I live.
I have been recommended the following set up:

• 4 x Dahua 8MP TIOC 3849
• 3 x Dahua 6MP 3666
• Dahua DHI-NVR4108HS-8P-4KS2 NVR

I am not 100% these are the cameras I need. I like the blue/red function of the 3849 which act as deterrent. One camera will be installed in the porch and needs to have 2 way audio, good day light and good artificial night light. All the other don`t have great artificial night light but would like to identify people well at day and night.
Any recommendation?
Thanks

 

[Perimeter]

If the cameras meet your "territorial" needs, no one can tell atm. But within your choices, there is trouble brewing.

I personally would not run this NVR with 7 cams of high pixel count. IIRC the recording bandwidth is 80Mbps, you are squeezing it at best. At the very least, I would look for the 4208 model, as this gives you twice the bandwidth.

Both camera models use rather small sensors for the resolution. Which means they will behave poorly (in comparison) when it is getting dark.

The first model only works with visible light, so you need visible lamps too. The second model also works with infrared, so you can use it without visible light. You are aware of this?

There are several threads here in which claims are made that TIOC is either not very obvious to an intruder or disturbs the recording. I don't own such a camera, hence I can't judge myself. As this TIOC uses visible light, it might blink, which isn't helping the recording. NVRs are usually able to trigger an (additional) alarm light/siren which should do a better job than the tioc.

 

[johnlux]

Thanks for your answer. About the IR, unfortunately I didn`t know about it. The guy just quoted the system and from a quick look online it didn`t sound the best choice hence my posting here. The camera at the porch will need to cover an distance of 5 mt max, all the other up to 10mt. I really don`t know which way to go, I am not even sure about the brand

 

[johnlux]

I also would like the 2 way mic on a couple of cameras of the set...

 

[johnlux]

Here is a picture of what I am talking about

 

[Perimeter]

Thanks for your answer. About the IR, unfortunately I didn`t know about it. The guy just quoted the system and from a quick look online it didn`t sound the best choice hence my posting here. The camera at the porch will need to cover an distance of 5 mt max, all the other up to 10mt. I really don`t know which way to go, I am not even sure about the brand

I would suggest to postpone the NVR decision until you know what cameras you want, unless you run on a tight budget.

It will be kind of difficult to meet all your ideas. And I am not sure what you really want, in which priority you want it and how much you are willing to pay.

Lets start with the porch. What do you want in which order? Do you have lights on during the night or is it dark there? Do you want to keep it dark? This is about need for IR.

Do you want a deterence cam at your porch? (Be informed by siren when the paper arrives early!) Do you want to freeze frame people moving at night to identify?

Edit: Two way mics: I suggest you make an expectation check. There is lag and there is lack of clarity involved. And there may be australian legislation, in case you care.

 

[wittaj]

Those are horrible recommendations and the guy is trying to offload junk onto you. What is he charging for those cams?

Keep in mind the two-way talk is more like walkie-talkie and is horrible to use for a conversation. Like you will have to push the mic button to talk and unpush it to hear them. It is great for yelling at someone "Stay off my lawn", but if you want to have any conversation, you need a doorbell cam that operates with SIP so it can be like a communication device you are familiar with.

Stay as far away from the 3849 camera as you can.

This is active deterrence camera on an 8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor, so it is on a horrible MP/sensor ratio. You cannot have enough light at night for it to perform well. That sensor is designed for 2MP so a 2MP camera will kick its butt all night long.

Even worse, since this 8MP is on the same sensor and CPU as a 2MP non TIOC camera and there are many threads here showing how under-performing that 3849 is. They had to limit bitrate and other parameters on the 3849 to try to make it functional, and it just doesn't cut it.

In my opinion the 3849 should not be sold with that current MP/sensor and CPU combination, but alas everybody wants 4k and chases MP over sensor and this camera is the epitome of that thinking.

Further, the red/blue flashing lights are more gimmicky and are certainly not a deterrent. With any ambient light you won't see the red/blue flashing unless you are looking right at the camera.

If you want active deterrence, your best bet is to go with the 2MP IPC-T5241H-AS-PV that will blink the white light. This is on the ideal MP/sensor ratio and will perform comparably to any similar 2MP fixed lens camera by Dahua. I have two of them. I have some of the other active deterrence cams as well, and would opt for the 2MP in every instance except for indoor, one could go with the IPC-HDW3449HP-AS-PV that has the red/blue lights that will bounce off the walls and be much more impressive than outside.

Lot's of threads here where people showed how bad the 3849 camera is in performing:

IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV issues
I put this guy up and for some reason, and I can put my finger on it, this picture just looks strange. The grass kind of looks like digital or something. The camera is on the default settings but I feel like I have tweaked most of them. Any suggestions? IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV is the camera.


IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV loses connection/reboots during the day
I have a IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV (8MP, Full-color night, 1/2.8” CMOS (3840 × 2160) @20 fps). I also have several IPC-HDW5831R-ZE, IPC-HDW2831T-ZS-S2 , and IPC-HDW4431C-A. The IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV disconnects and reboots during the day, I have no issues during the night. It's my only cam that has this...


Replaced HDW5442TMP-ASE by HFW3849T1P
Hello everybody! I replaced my favourite camera HDW5442TMP-ASE with new HFW3849T1P and I came accorss that HDW5442TMP-ASE has much better picture than newer one. I replaced it because HFW3849T1P 8MP instead of HDW5442TMP-ASE 5Mp and HFW3849T1P is TIOC (three in one camera). I didn't expect so...


Dahua 8mp (TIOC): Full Colour, Active Deterrence & AI
Dahua 8mp (TIOC): Full Colour, Active Deterrence & AI now for sale in UK. I wish they had the Image Sensor: 1/1.8" and a F1:0 lens as I would be all over this. SPECIFICATION Model Number: IPC-HFW3849T1P-AS-PV-280 CAMERA Image Sensor: 1/2.8" Progressive CMOS Effective Pixels : 3840 x 2160...


IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV Video Quality
Hi All, I have recently installed Dahua IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV, 2.8mm (8MP, full color, active deterrence) cameras. The overall video quality is good but I cannot read number plate for cars passing down the road (approx 11 meters away) or identify people properly. Is it the expected behavior? What...


You would be better off to simply pay someone to run the wires and you purchase the gear.

You need to decide at what distances you want to IDENTIFY a person and get the correct camera for that distance.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[johnlux]

@Perimeter I already have a Bosh system inside the house. I am mainly looking at cameras to cover the outside area and monitor while we are not home, I guess the main reason is to identify people before the get into the house. I don`t want to spend a lot, just need something reliable and functional. Let`s start from the porch. I was trying to avoid the installation of a doorbell like Ring to have everything running on the same NVR hence the reason to have a 2 way mic camera. The Dahua doorbell is too expensive. The camera in the porch area is mainly to replace the doorbell, not really needed as potential intruders are in theory capture by the corner camera. The porch area is illuminated at night with a flood light like this one.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/brilliant-lighting-7w-black-middleton-security-solar-sensor-twin-light_p0186154

@wittaj That was the feeling, which I guess was right. Great post about the focal length. I am not 100% sure the cameras are currently well placed, but I would say the two pointing the driveway will need to cover 30-50 feet (I guess 5442 ZE or 5842-ZE ), all the others anything within 10-15 feet. A deterrent is welcomed even if not critical. Light at night could be an issue, Should I install flood lights? I am looking for cameras with some sort of AI, so I can get notification when something goes wrong and have vehicle, animals and human identification. NVR I am not 100%, I just want to be able to go back in time and identify the intruder. I assume if someone gets in can easily steal it and all the relevant info with it?

 

[wittaj]

Yeah I hear you about wanting it all on the same system, but the two-way talk cameras give the allure of what we need, but the reality is most end up never using that feature. Several of my cams have it, and it sucks to try to have a conversation. Great for warning someone, but any back and forth discussion, forget about it.

I have several two-way talk cameras and never use them for that feature. But they are good for audio deterrent. Just trying to manage your expectations on the actual real world use of two-way talk cameras.

I simply don't answer the door if I am not expecting company or recognize the person, so my two-way simply tells tells them if I don't know them, I am not answering so move along LOL.

For your IDENTIFY distance of 10-15 feet, most of the 2.8 or 3.6mm fixed length should be fine, but really try to stay with the cameras that have ideal MP/sensor ratios. As I said that 3849 is 8MP on a sensor designed for 2MP and it performs horribly because of it.

Potential theft is why most of us put SD cards in the cameras as a backup - if they steal the NVR, they would have to steal all the cameras too and that would make them much more obvious to neighbors and what not.

Most here find that cameras and motion activated floodlights ends up causing problems with image exposure and are bad for surveillance cameras.. What happens is then the camera is momentarily blinded and you lose the ideal capture when the lights kick on and the camera adjusts from basically no light to a lot of light.

Motion activated lights are not a deterrent. There are enough videos here showing that perps do not flinch when a floodlight turns on. They avoid homes all lit up, so go with floodlights on all night.

Watch this video someone posted and how the floodlight comes on and they don't even flinch. But then the audio comes on and they don't know which way to run LOL.

https://ipcamtalk.com/attachments/whatsapp-video-2020-07-28-at-7-23-08-pm-mp4.73970/

Either keep the lights on all night or not at all to ensure the best chance of capture.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated floodlight comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:

Or this example that completely missed the perp:

The Typical picture of a Perp on Nextdoor-type Apps with Consumer Grade Cameras like Ring, Nest, Arlo, Canary, Wyze, etc.

First off, they shouldn't buy crap NVRs. Dahua NVRs' can easily export video to a thumb drive in MP4 as can Hik's. Most of the time it is simply a matter of them not taking the time to figure it out, until they need the video NOW. I've seen BI user's be guilty of doing the same. Couldn't be...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[sdkid]

Awesome posts here @wittaj -- another example of horrible advice and gimicky BS marketing leading people to exactly the WRONG conclusions. If there is a silver lining on this one-- the OP hasn't actually BOUGHT anything yet! This forum, and your posts here saved him hundreds of dollars.

 

[johnlux]

Thanks @wittaj. Based on what I need, is there any brand / model you would recommend in particular, including the NVR? Please keep in mind the models here in Australia could be limited. Considering the bad experience with the "professional", should I buy all the material and get someone to run the cables? I am a bit worried about setting up everything by myself and getting the wrong location for the cameras.

 

[wittaj]

One thing we can assure you is even if you pay someone to provide and install cameras, they will leave it all on default, so you would be adjusting all the settings anyway, so save money and get better cameras!

Reach out to member @EMPIRETECANDY who sells all over and had an Amazon store and he can hook you up with great gear at great prices.

 

[looney2ns]

I would suggest these cameras OR these cameras if you know what lenses you need.
And this NVR
Also contact @EMPIRETECANDY directly

 

[garycrist]

One of Andy's
1. NVRs with 300MB bandwidth, 16 ports, 4+ Gig WD purple (depends on budget) POE if all wires go to 1 place else
non POE but one would need POE switch/s.
2 5442 series cams are the de facto standard. Consider the 180 degree cams for those side of the house views.

Think about catching them coming and going on the front entrance too. I put my front porch cams at eye level.
I want them to see them!

This might sound confusing, but these are some bread crumbs to get you started down the rabbit hole.

 

[bigredfish]

All good advice above.

Recommend starting over as really none of that gear is right.

 

[johnlux]

Thanks guys for the tips. Does it take much to set everything up or should I get a specialist? I am sure I will get there, just don`t want to spend days on it

 

[wittaj]

You will pay thru the nose to have someone set it up. Once you get the cams, I will add my standard setup post that many people have used to set them up as a starting point.

 

[Gimmons]

I have had people back off from white deterrence lights twice and ignore them once. The successes were at night, the fail was in the day. 2 way talk is a semi-gimmick. In addition to the points made above, when things happen, it is usually at night when good people like you are asleep. You'd be better to have a prerecorded voice trigger that tells the intruder he's on video. Nothing too rude, in case it's the paperboy come a bit early.

 

[saltwater]

Thanks guys for the tips. Does it take much to set everything up or should I get a specialist? I am sure I will get there, just don`t want to spend days on it

From one Aussie to another, welcome to the forum. I can vouch for @EMPIRETECANDY, I have purchased all my cams from him, mostly 5442's (excellent cameras, very expensive in Australia). I'm not a big fan of a local, or Australian based, Facebook group related to CCTV, as most are installers and most seem to ram down your throat regulations, that you can't lay your own cables. On top of that, I see them recommending crap combos, yes, they are cheaper, but that is at the cost of quality.

The way I see it is this. To install an entire system, it can be broken down into two major processes, 1. laying cables 2. camera and NVR choice. So, lay your cables first, and definitely go overboard, laying cables to all your points where you think you may like a camera, doesn't mean you will install a camera at the location. (I have spare cables all over my place, just ready, waiting, if I decide to attach a camera, or other device) I'm not going to ram regulations down your throat, but if it's your own property, then do the work yourself, if you feel comfortable. Or, hire a mate and work as an apprentice, another way to save money.

Once all the wiring is in place, then it's NVR and camera choices.

Your comment that you don't want to spend days on it indicates you want the McDonalds service, which is not ideal. If you don't want to spend time on it then pick up a Swann system from Bunnings, I'm serious.

EDIT: Cable is cheap in the scheme of things.

 

[wittaj]

If you are hoping for plug-n-play then go with Ring or arlo LOL.

The question we all ask ourselves at some point is do I want quality cameras to capture quality video at night with motion OR do I want the simplicity scan a QR code and be tricked into thinking I have a good system (that is actually a security risk and crappy video with motion at night)? Unfortunately you can't get both.

The consumer grade Ring and Arlos and Reolink and Blink and whatever you can buy at a big box store sells just that - simplicity plug-n-play devices with very little ability to tweak settings. But that simplicity comes at the expense of usable video with motion, especially at night.

Any camera worth anything will allow you to set the camera parameters to get quality captures and unfortunately most installers never provide that service and instead rely on auto/default settings, so you would be figuring out yourself at some point.

That is what makes this forum so good is we can provide you with the tools and settings and resources to get you going and will be better than most professionals that you would pay a ton for.