Is there a such thing as a camera system that is not complete trash? Suggestions?

[pm-performance]

Pardon if I seem frustrated, but I grow tired of wasting money and more importantly time. . . .

First system was a Lorex setup which has always been absolute garbage. Everything about the experience has been terrible. Their support I thought was the worst, but atleast I could get them on the phone after waiting an hour.
I figured I would upgrade to POE cameras and tried Reolink because they had great reviews on youtube. I got the new Duo2 camera because it seemed like the best no compromise option along with their NVR, Boy was I wrong!!
Not only is this thing not compatible with their own NVR, but it just doesnt do the core things right. Figured I would try Blue Iris to see if it would fix the downfalls of their NVR, and it just isnt right so I am on the prowl again.

I originally wanted the Hikvision with the nightfighter I think it was. I am pretty adimate about color night vision and the Lorex did that decently with a little ambient light. The spotlights for color night vision seem to be a problem and I would rather something like the nill to little ambient light option.
Good resolution and able to make out things decently clearly is a plus as well, because if not, what is the point right?

Any suggestions to save my sanity in getting reliable quality cameras and an NVR that just works?

 

[fenderman]

Pardon if I seem frustrated, but I grow tired of wasting money and more importantly time. . . .

First system was a Lorex setup which has always been absolute garbage. Everything about the experience has been terrible. Their support I thought was the worst, but atleast I could get them on the phone after waiting an hour.
I figured I would upgrade to POE cameras and tried Reolink because they had great reviews on youtube. I got the new Duo2 camera because it seemed like the best no compromise option along with their NVR, Boy was I wrong!!
Not only is this thing not compatible with their own NVR, but it just doesnt do the core things right. Figured I would try Blue Iris to see if it would fix the downfalls of their NVR, and it just isnt right so I am on the prowl again.

I originally wanted the Hikvision with the nightfighter I think it was. I am pretty adimate about color night vision and the Lorex did that decently with a little ambient light. The spotlights for color night vision seem to be a problem and I would rather something like the nill to little ambient light option.
Good resolution and able to make out things decently clearly is a plus as well, because if not, what is the point right?

Any suggestions to save my sanity in getting reliable quality cameras and an NVR that just works?

Blue iris is the most feature rich software at its price point. You have not explained what issue you had with the reolink NVR and how you expected blue iris to fix it. You dont explain what you are looking for in an NVR or how much you are willing to spend so no one can help you.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Every camera needs visible white light to produce color motion video at night. Terms like DarkFighter, ColorVu, Starvis, FullColor and so on are nothing more than marketing terms. Color night vision is the Holy Grail of security cameras but is very difficult to achieve without spending megabucks. There is a relationship between resolution and sensor size to achieve good night performance and too many of the inexpensive cameras, Lorex, Reolink, use high resoltuions on small sensors which makes them blind at night. At the same time any camera can be made to have a color night picture IF you slow the shutter speed, exposure enough. The problem there is that a shutter speed to do that is far too slow to produce blur free motion. Another thing to keep in mind that a surveillance camera is not anything close to what a cell phone or DSLR camera is for many reasons. The biggest being the sensor sizes in those cameras are ten times, or mor larger, than in a surveillance camera.

Here's a list for you to peruse and some other information you may find helpful -

Start out by looking in the WiKi in the blue bar at the top of the page. There's a ton of very useful information in there and it needs to be viewed on a computer, not a phone or tablet. The Cliff Notes will be of particular interest although the camera models listed there are a generation old at this point. The best way to determine what kind of camera you need in each location and where each location should really be is to buy one varifocal camera first and set up a test stand for it that can be easily moved around. Test using that, viewing using the web interface of the camera, during the day and at night. Have someone walk around behaving like a miscreant and see if you can identify them. There is also information for choosing hardware and securing the system along with a whole bunch of other good stuff.

Don't chase megapixels unless you have a really BIG budget. Chase sensor size and bigger is better. To confuse you more sensor sizes are listed in fractions so do the basic math to be sure, 1/2.7 is bigger than 1/2.8 or 1/3. General rule of thumb is that a 4MP camera will easily outperform an 8MP camera when they both have the same sensor size. Reason being that there are twice as many pixels in the 8MP versus the 4MP. This results in only half the available light getting to each pixel in an 8MP that a pixel in the 4MP "sees".

A dedicated PC doesn't need to be either expensive to purchase or to run. A used business class machine can be had from eBay and various other sources. The advances made in Blue Iris make it easily possible to run a fairly large system on relatively inexpensive hardware which also makes power consumption low, as in under 50 watts in many cases. The biggest expenses turn out to be hard drives for storing video and a PoE switch to power the cameras and, of course, the cameras themselves.

The three basic rules of video surveillance cameras-

Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

Disclaimer - These sizes are what the manufacturers advertise and may, or may not, be the true size of the sensor in the camera.
720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Focal length, lens size, is another critical element in camera selection. A 2.8mm lens will produce a nice wide view but will be useless for identification at distances greater than abut 10 or 15 feet.

Compiled by wittaj

The Typical picture of a Perp on Nextdoor-type Apps with Consumer Grade Cameras like Ring, Nest, Arlo, Canary, Wyze, etc.

Love these posts on Nextdoor type apps LOL. This thread will be used for members to post the poor quality consumer grade type camera images that we see people post to the Nextdoor type apps. Can anyone make out this person that went thru their cars LOL.... And this thread is where members...

ipcamtalk.com

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular.

Compiled by mat200 -

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

Reolink, low light issues as shown in LifeHackster's "Reolink RLC-823A Review - 4K IP Camera that has Pan, Tilt, Zoom, Spotlights and Motion Tracking"

I will review and high light some of the image capture issues Reolink has in low light conditions from the following youtube video: ( commentary below ) Reolink RLC-823A Review - 4K IP Camera that has Pan, Tilt, Zoom, Spotlights and Motion Tracking LifeHackster Feb 5, 2022 ref: update: One...

ipcamtalk.com

A collection of various consumer grade failures -

The Typical picture of a Perp on Nextdoor-type Apps with Consumer Grade Cameras like Ring, Nest, Arlo, Canary, Wyze, etc.

Love these posts on Nextdoor type apps LOL. This thread will be used for members to post the poor quality consumer grade type camera images that we see people post to the Nextdoor type apps. Can anyone make out this person that went thru their cars LOL.... And this thread is where members...

ipcamtalk.com

Avoid WiFi cameras, even doorbell cameras. WiFi is not designed for the constant, 24/7, load of video that a surveillance camera produces. At best, with two cameras on WiFi, they will still experience dropouts multiple times daily. Murphy's Law says that will happen at the worst possible moment.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Keep in mind that it may take two cameras, or more, to provide the coverage you need or desire. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

Again, courtesy of Wittaj -

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

Review - 8MP 1/1.2" sensor full color camera

Worlds First Review - Dahua - IPC-Color4K-X / DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED - Full Color 4K Camera

Intro I’m excited to be doing another Worlds First Review. this time as I mentioned in the full color thread, I’ve been testing the new Dahua full color 4K camera. This was provided courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY for a fair, honest, no holds barred, unbiased review. I’ll attempt to answer any and...

ipcamtalk.com

2021 Full Color 2.0 Has a Fantastic New Dual Lens Camera

Hey guys The full color 2.0 has been released. Most cams I already posted here. Like: IPC-Color4K-X Bullet 4MP Motorized Full color. Today I bring a secret model, 1st release for the Dual-Lens Full color model in the world. Dual-lens Camera( Sample at Early Sep ) Ø Dual light fusion...

ipcamtalk.com

Dual Sensor 4K

Review: Dahua DH-IPC-MFW7442K1-Z4-T40 - Dual Sensor (4MP + 4MP) Bullet Camera

Hope all of you are doing well ! Intro Its time to do another review and this time (as you may have seen in my Coming Soon video), we have 2 of them. Both of these cams are from the same MFW-7x42K1 family and feature dual sensors. I have the 7442 (4MP) and 7842 (8MP) versions of these cams...

ipcamtalk.com

5442 Reviews

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)

IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...

ipcamtalk.com

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new 4MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This camera is using the OEM model number of IPC-B5442-ZE which is the equivalent of the Dahua IPC-HFW5442-ZE for reference. The IPC-B...

ipcamtalk.com

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $160 Link to camera...

ipcamtalk.com

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Andy's Email: kingsecurity2014...

ipcamtalk.com

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera

Review: OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Pro AI Starlight Full-color Fixed Bullet

Many thanks once again to Andy @EMPIRETECANDY we have for testing the OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Starlight+ Full Color bullet. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This is a fixed 3.6mm bullet (Pro AI) series with the 1/1.8” sensor. It has no built in...

ipcamtalk.com

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera

Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal

Again courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY EmpireTech Andy we have a new cam to look over. Its a new model in Dahua's new Lite H265 Series of cam's. Available for purchase here: Aliexpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles and more Price is approx...

ipcamtalk.com

3241T-ZAS Review

Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal

IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

Wow Lorex to Reolink is a definite decline in capabilities...

Reolinks and Blue Iris do not work well together. It is well documented on this site. Here is a link to a post I made documenting it within the master thread on how poor the reos are:

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

I have installed Reolink -810B8-A and feel like i need to make a comment here on the system. For the price of the system, the picture is extremely good even at night. Yes you will not be able the license plate at 75 feet or even 50 feet but i am fine with that. For 8 cameras plus NVR i paid...

ipcamtalk.com

The words Accusense, ColorVu, Dark Fighter, Starlight, etc. are indeed simply marketing hooks and do not represent a specific technology advancement or feature....it is simple a marketing term used to supposedly sell the consumer on the ability to have good night vision. The actual sensors and capabilities of the camera is more important.

I have said this before, but worth repeating. Do not be sold by some trademarked night color vision (Full Color, ColorVu, Starlight, etc.) that is a marketing ploy in a lot of ways lol. It is simply what a manufacturer wants to claim for low-light performance, but there are so many games that can be played even with the how they report the Lux numbers. They will claim a low lux of 0.0005 for example, but then that is with a wide open iris and a shutter at 1/3 second and an f1.0 - as soon as you have motion in it, it will be crap. You need a shutter of at minimum 1/60 second to reduce a lot of blur from someone walking.

All cameras need light regardless of what any marketing claims. I can make a crap camera look like noon at midnight, but then motion is a blur. But with any light at all, this camera does really well.

Sensor size, F number, MP, quality of the lens and sensor and software running the cameras are the real determining factors. And then obviously dial each cameras specific software settings to optimize the image and video. A brightness of 50 for example will look different between two different brands, or even the same brand but different cameras.

It is interesting how many of us experience better camera images with the camera LED off, regardless of whether it is a Hik or Dahua! I personally don't think they cast a far enough light to be effective. They are blinding looking at the camera, but do not project enough light out far enough to be effective. I have 3 different cameras with the LED and I do not run any of them on!

Unless you know you have enough ambient light or can live with the camera's white LED on, go with a camera that can see infrared. The full color type cameras cannot see infrared, so you couldn't add external IR later.

But in a completely black situation without any ambient light and without the white LED on, it looks like crap and you cannot add external IR as it won't see it.

I have a Full Color type camera and the LED light on it is a gimmick. It helps for a small diameter circle, but it is no different than going outside at pitch black and turning on your cell phone light - it is bright looking directly at the LED light, but it doesn't spread out and reach very far. Fortunately I have enough ambient light that I do not need the little piddly LED light on and it actually looks worse with it on, but it performs better than my other cameras when tested at the same location. But without some light, a camera with IR capability is the safer bet.

Check out this video at midnight. You see this and it looks like daytime and be like WOW I want that camera. But any motion in the frame and it is crap and will be a ghost blur. You notice they do not show anything with motion. I can make all my cameras look like this at midnight with no other light, but we want good motion video, not still images video. This is a very nice camera with enough light at night - and as and with some light, this camera rocks. But all cameras, regardless of what they are called, need light - either white light or infrared. Simple physics.




While this camera is not what we would call a consumer grade camera and this is a really good camera, it is these games played to make it look good at night - but then a person walking by is a blur and people simply say well the camera isn't good at night. If you have the ability to change the settings, you can make it work. Just remember that every increase in shutter speed needs more light. So I can set mine to 1/250 second and eliminate blur at night, but then all that is visible is a 5 foot diameter around the camera IF I have enough light.

If your camera doesn't have enough light, as you are finding out, a 24/7 full color camera will not be of much good and now you have a camera with no IR and even if you added external IR, the camera will not see it since it does not have an IR filter.

We are fortunate so many people here post videos and images where we can see their field of view and available light and we can try to imagine how that stacks up to our field of view and available light and that to me is a much better spec to go by than what is printed on the side of the box.


Buying an all-in-one system rarely results in a good solution. Each camera needs to be selected based on the strengths of the camera and the area to IDENTIFY.

See this thread I created that discusses the value of focal length over MP, complete with camera recommendations for distances you want to IDENTIFY:

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[pm-performance]

Thanks guys, sorry for my frustration. I have been at it all day trying to get this damn camera functioning decent enough to see if it will stay and I cant even get that part right.

So my Lorex cameras are about 4 yrs old. They are BNC connectors which I absolutely LOATHE due to connection issues. Also none of the worth wild motion detection, so its all or nothing with these things. I have just left them recording 24x7x365 now and just hope I dont ever have to go back and look for footage.

So moving to the Reolink because you know. . Youtube guys say they are great for the money.
So the FOV is pretty phenomenal on this thing and looks good in the day time. At night, IR mode looks decent, but like you guys said, its just a smear or blur when the subject moves at all. The motion sensing is nonsense it seems too. Not sure if you need to reboot the cameras after each change, but most of the time that is when things start working. The spotlights are deff a gimic. They don't cast far and really you cant even make out the subject in any detail anyway.
The biggest kicker is that this Duo2 camera is not even fully compatible with their DVR. You do not get any access to motion detection options, no motion detection grid, no light options, no siren options, literally nothing but the main global settings.

I figured the NVR was trash and would just trial Blue Iris to see if I could set a motion grid and just keep the camera maybe. While I did not spend alot of time with it, Blue Iris will certainly need quite a bit more tinkering than I would like initially. It is obvious after trying to get the camera working in BI that there are compatability issues i later found confirmed on here which is why i joined.

I will take a look at the other posts a little deeper in the AM after I packaged this steaming pile of garbage back up to get back to Amazon.

 

[wittaj]

Let us guess....the hookup videos?

Yep, send the reos back NOW!

BI is very powerful (more powerful than any NVR). I had been with NVRs for years and tried the trial and new within 30 minutes it was superior to any NVR I ever had and have never looked back. If you are somewhat computer savvy, you will find it easy to get going after you play with it for awhile.

 

[Sybertiger]

Blue Iris is the bomb! A $300 used PC running Win10 dedicated to be a Blue Iris server plus the right POE cams. Get some decent Dahua 4MP cams that have built-in AI plus run free AI server running on the forementioned PC. OpenVPN and Pushover notifications then you'll be all set for access to your cams from any computer or mobile device anywhere in the country.

 

[Timokreon]

I went the Lorex route as well. For overview cameras, as in all you want to do is see the neighborhood and see what's going on around your house, they work well. If you want to actually see details, and be able to identify who is on your property, etc... then yeah... time to go Dahua (what most use around here) or Hiki.

Andy, @EMPIRETECANDY can help you out with his cameras. There's a wealth of knowledge around here, knowledge that would have saved me a lot of time, money, and aggravation if I had found this forum first before purchasing the Lorex.
I still have 1 more Lorex camera on my exterior that I'm going to replace. I'm using the Lorex cams I still have (I sold several to neighbor who just wanted to see what's going on around the neighborhood) in my garage, keeping an eye on my water heater, sump pump, etc..

 

[mat200]

Pardon if I seem frustrated, but I grow tired of wasting money and more importantly time. . . .

First system was a Lorex setup which has always been absolute garbage. Everything about the experience has been terrible. Their support I thought was the worst, but atleast I could get them on the phone after waiting an hour.

I figured I would upgrade to POE cameras and tried Reolink because they had great reviews on youtube. I got the new Duo2 camera because it seemed like the best no compromise option along with their NVR, Boy was I wrong!!
..

Thanks guys, sorry for my frustration.

..

So my Lorex cameras are about 4 yrs old. They are BNC connectors which I absolutely LOATHE due to connection issues. Also none of the worth wild motion detection, so its all or nothing with these things.
..

So moving to the Reolink because you know. . Youtube guys say they are great for the money.

So the FOV is pretty phenomenal on this thing and looks good in the day time. At night, IR mode looks decent, but like you guys said, its just a smear or blur when the subject moves at all...

Welcome @pm-performance

Lorex branded cameras / nvrs / dvrs come in a significant range of performance .. in general not as good the higher end Dahua branded models.

Lorex:
Coax Analog BNC kits vs IP PoE kits.

Lorex, now owned by Dahua - is mostly Dahua OEM kits / cameras / NVRs or DVRs

In general, the more affordable Lorex analog kits on their website have less performance based on the specs .. and at least in the past, some of the Lorex cameras were coming with larger sensors ( not seeing that now ) .. so some of the older Lorex IP cameras with 1/1.8" sensors should perform significantly better than the Reolinks in low light conditions.

Better analog cameras are available, but not through Lorex that I can see ( probably have to find a higher end Dahua vendor or higher end Hikvision kit )

Sounds like you had the more affordable Lorex DVR kit ..

Since you jumped in Reolink, my guess is you are attempting to keep your budget low .. this naturally means you will take a hit on performance and quality.

Best at this time to determine what exactly you would like to accomplish with cameras.

 

[Coal_Cracker]

I just joined this forum, and wow that is some good info for a newbie.

 

[DanDenver]

I am pretty adimate about color night vision

I feel a kinship to your security camera adventures. I too started with many strong convictions with what I wanted, not what the industry could offer.
Consider being open to purchasing the best camera for your lighting conditions, not the best camera for your preferences based on inclinations or emotion.

Any suggestions to save my sanity in getting reliable quality cameras and an NVR that just works?

We don’t live in an advertising flyer. Reality is that we have to adjust/tune whatever the heck we buy in this industry. Cannot get around this simple axiom of security camera installations.
Once you fully embrace this (took me some time myself), consider options that give you the most levers/control over what you can control. That would be where Blue Iris comes into the picture. Simple enough to get running quickly (and you state this was the case for you) but complex enough to offer industry leading functionality

My past is very similar to yours, just give me the darn unit, let me plug it in, and it should work! I ran an NVR for 5 years and was never happy. Been on Blue Iris now for 2 years and it is like night and day in how it adds value. I think you need to slow down, read actual articles and not advertising flyers about what you can expect to get out of a security camera system.

And of course, camera selection is paramount. The selection in post #3 is excellent.

But you have not listed out what you are wanting to monitor/protect. What is your goal? Is this install residential/commercial? Inside/outside? Pet monitoring? A shed? Daytime monitoring only? You say one of your interests in a camera was a “great field of view”. That can be a pitfall as discussed in so many posts on this forum.

I am sure you will find a system that will make you happy!

 

[pm-performance]

I feel a kinship to your security camera adventures. I too started with many strong convictions with what I wanted, not what the industry could offer.
Consider being open to purchasing the best camera for your lighting conditions, not the best camera for your preferences based on inclinations or emotion.


We don’t live in an advertising flyer. Reality is that we have to adjust/tune whatever the heck we buy in this industry. Cannot get around this simple axiom of security camera installations.
Once you fully embrace this (took me some time myself), consider options that give you the most levers/control over what you can control. That would be where Blue Iris comes into the picture. Simple enough to get running quickly (and you state this was the case for you) but complex enough to offer industry leading functionality

My past is very similar to yours, just give me the darn unit, let me plug it in, and it should work! I ran an NVR for 5 years and was never happy. Been on Blue Iris now for 2 years and it is like night and day in how it adds value. I think you need to slow down, read actual articles and not advertising flyers about what you can expect to get out of a security camera system.

And of course, camera selection is paramount. The selection in post #3 is excellent.

But you have not listed out what you are wanting to monitor/protect. What is your goal? Is this install residential/commercial? Inside/outside? Pet monitoring? A shed? Daytime monitoring only? You say one of your interests in a camera was a “great field of view”. That can be a pitfall as discussed in so many posts on this forum.

I am sure you will find a system that will make you happy!

Sorry In my rage I did not mention my scenario. . . .

So really nothing specific in mind I am looking to keep an eye on. I live in a good neighborhood with little drama. My camera adventure started out because of a hit and run with one of my vehicles that was parked out front on the street. As occassional thug coming from the city here and there to rip off cars. Nothing crazy. I just felt like color night vision carries a huge benefit. You cannot make out specifics from B&W.
My recent reasoning for upgrading is that we have a couple ponds out back. I wanted something with smart motion sensing to alert me when a Heron was stalking my koi. I didn't even mention the Netvue camera I sent back last week as well from another failed attempt.

My big things I learned is that I want some sort of smart motion detection and something that does not pick up every blade of grass that blows in the wind, every shadow of a cloud that passes by and all the spiders and bugs that matriculate to the IR sensors. Motion sensing that actually works and does not track an incident too late.
I have motion detection completely turned off and on 24x7 recording on my Lorex setup for that reason. Which has been OK, except for the BNC connectors or power leads being a problem and needing to be jiggled constantly to come back on.

This is my best case scenario with my views currently. It does OK, but I am sure you can see where my problem areas are with motion detection. The wide FOV from the Duo2 seemed great as a second story 180* camera, maybe for 24x7 recording. x4 to hit each side of the house and sounded like a no compromise view with 4 cameras

 

[sebastiantombs]

One of the most common mistakes made with cameras is too few cameras and then placing them to provide those nice, broad, sweeping, overview shots. They are totally useless when something happens because their focal length is too short and they re mounted so high all you see are the tops of heads anyway. Cameras need to be selected based on their specific location and purpose and should be mounted no higher than 7-1/2 feet if you want to get useable identification shots.

My feeling, and practice, is to have at least two cameras on each side of the house. They look back toward each other. This provides overlap of coverage and no way to approach one camera without being seen by the other camera. On the long sides of the house I've added a third camera looking straight out as well just to make sure every possible approach is well covered. I also live in a quiet neighborhood and we don't even have door checkers. There have been some equipment thefts and mail thefts though.

The smartest thing to do is to buy a decent varifocal camera like the Dahua 5442T-ZE first. Get a long, say 200 foot premade CAT cable terminated with 568B, and set it up in a test rig at each location you think you want a camera. The test rig is nothing more than a five gallon bucket of sand or rocks with an eight foot 2x4 sticking up out of it. The camera gets mounted to the 2x4 at the 7-1/2' mark. You can also just clamp that 2x4 to a step ladder which might be easier.

Set the camera up and test it during both day and night. Have someone play "bad guy" and see if you can actually identify who it is from the video, not because you already know who it is. Make sure you can get good captures when they are in motion especially at night.

This will also give you an opportunity to become familiar with the camera and all the adjustments that can and should be made. By default everything is set to "auto". That may be fine for daytime, but at night things need to be set to match the scene. Leaving it in "auto" will result in blurred motion and, probably, noisy video.

In terms of motion detection you will be very hard pressed to detect something as specific as a heron. Even if you use artificial intelligence. AI is not like you see on TV or in the movies just as zoom doesn't work like it does on TV and in the movies. If you use Blue Iris you can set up profiles based on time of day and specific detection zones, like your pond, to fight the false alarms caused by shadows and such. Even then it will take some tweaking. The AI built into cameras is specifically used for humans and vehicles and is very unreliable with animals.

 

[mat200]

Sorry In my rage I did not mention my scenario. . . .

So really nothing specific in mind I am looking to keep an eye on. I live in a good neighborhood with little drama. My camera adventure started out because of a hit and run with one of my vehicles that was parked out front on the street. As occassional thug coming from the city here and there to rip off cars. Nothing crazy. I just felt like color night vision carries a huge benefit. You cannot make out specifics from B&W.
My recent reasoning for upgrading is that we have a couple ponds out back. I wanted something with smart motion sensing to alert me when a Heron was stalking my koi. I didn't even mention the Netvue camera I sent back last week as well from another failed attempt.

My big things I learned is that I want some sort of smart motion detection and something that does not pick up every blade of grass that blows in the wind, every shadow of a cloud that passes by and all the spiders and bugs that matriculate to the IR sensors. Motion sensing that actually works and does not track an incident too late.
I have motion detection completely turned off and on 24x7 recording on my Lorex setup for that reason. Which has been OK, except for the BNC connectors or power leads being a problem and needing to be jiggled constantly to come back on.

This is my best case scenario with my views currently. It does OK, but I am sure you can see where my problem areas are with motion detection. The wide FOV from the Duo2 seemed great as a second story 180* camera, maybe for 24x7 recording. x4 to hit each side of the house and sounded like a no compromise view with 4 cameras

Thanks @pm-performance

thanks for the images ..

@sebastiantombs gives some solid advice here .. remember to test test and test before running cables to locations ..

"The smartest thing to do is to buy a decent varifocal camera like the Dahua 5442T-ZE first. Get a long, say 200 foot premade CAT cable terminated with 568B, and set it up in a test rig at each location you think you want a camera. The test rig is nothing more than a five gallon bucket of sand or rocks with an eight foot 2x4 sticking up out of it. The camera gets mounted to the 2x4 at the 7-1/2' mark. You can also just clamp that 2x4 to a step ladder which might be easier.

Set the camera up and test it during both day and night. Have someone play "bad guy" and see if you can actually identify who it is from the video, not because you already know who it is. Make sure you can get good captures when they are in motion especially at night. "

 

[spammenotinoz]

Probably not the smartest thing to say in this forum, but based on your wording, suggest finding a local camera guy and holding them accountable.
BlueIris (while great, is only for people that like to tinker and put int the effort), it's no where near plug-and play compared to say a Hikvision NVR.
Also most of the good cameras here, are not the best in "auto" mode and require calibration based on the install location (ambient light) your goals, and this is a bit of effort and knowledge,
You have invested a lot of effort already, so you need to decide if you will continue to invest\learn or get a pro.

As others have said, all cameras require light to work, you won't get what you need in a single camera. eg: I have motion lights and a Hikvision color night camera, that is excellent but also have IR cameras to supplement. Choosing the correct focal length and camera placement are just as important.
I know Relink get bad reviews here, but frankly during they day they are brilliant and at night with a supplemental cheap ir lighting they can out perform cameras 4 x the price.
I personally use Hikvision and Dahua and find each has pros and cons.
I like motion lights at night, but you need to test your cameras so you can ensure they respond how you like.

 

[DanDenver]

Probably not the smartest thing to say in this forum...

Have you run Blue Iris? You seem familiar with HikVision NVR for sure.

 

[spammenotinoz]

Have you run Blue Iris? You seem familiar with HikVision NVR for sure.

Yes, have been using BlueIris for years (still learning more about it every week). Current setup is using ProjectAI and a huge BI Fan.

• Turns on my Philips hue lights when it detects a person on certain cameras
• Emails Video's when a person\vehicle is detected (when it detects I am not at home)
• Night profiles that automatically change camera properties optimised for conditions\weather
• Daily video summaries

I have tried all sorts of different systems, for myself BI has always hit the sweet spot between functionality and stability.

 

[DanDenver]

Cool. I was against installing BI actually for many years as I felt what you said "while great, is only for people that like to tinker"

But I found that was not true. The time and effort for either system is very equivalent.

But once implemented, BI pays off in dividends compared to an NVR

 

[wittaj]

I would argue that BI can be as plug-n-play as an NVR.

In my experience, BI "out of the box" just adding a camera and using default motion detection was better than any NVR I ever had. Just seemed counter intuitive in how to set up the NVR. And if you get a good one, you are logging into the camera GUI anyway to set it up just like you would with Blue Iris, so that then tilts the scales tremendously towards BI.

Now BI does have way more flexibility and customization than an NVR, and many can mistake that for not being plug-n-play, but I can set up a basic BI system that will act similar to an NVR capability just as quick as I can a "plug-n-play" NVR, if not faster.

 

[wittaj]

Sorry In my rage I did not mention my scenario. . . .

So really nothing specific in mind I am looking to keep an eye on. I live in a good neighborhood with little drama. My camera adventure started out because of a hit and run with one of my vehicles that was parked out front on the street. As occassional thug coming from the city here and there to rip off cars. Nothing crazy. I just felt like color night vision carries a huge benefit. You cannot make out specifics from B&W.
My recent reasoning for upgrading is that we have a couple ponds out back. I wanted something with smart motion sensing to alert me when a Heron was stalking my koi. I didn't even mention the Netvue camera I sent back last week as well from another failed attempt.

My big things I learned is that I want some sort of smart motion detection and something that does not pick up every blade of grass that blows in the wind, every shadow of a cloud that passes by and all the spiders and bugs that matriculate to the IR sensors. Motion sensing that actually works and does not track an incident too late.
I have motion detection completely turned off and on 24x7 recording on my Lorex setup for that reason. Which has been OK, except for the BNC connectors or power leads being a problem and needing to be jiggled constantly to come back on.

This is my best case scenario with my views currently. It does OK, but I am sure you can see where my problem areas are with motion detection. The wide FOV from the Duo2 seemed great as a second story 180* camera, maybe for 24x7 recording. x4 to hit each side of the house and sounded like a no compromise view with 4 cameras

I am sure you have seen, or will see, from the thread we linked above about focal length being more important than MP would certainly apply to your situation.

You said you had a hit and run of a vehicle on the street. A full color camera is not the right camera to IDENTIFY unless you can stick the camera on a mailbox because the full-color type cameras are limited in fixed focal lengths that work well within 15 feet or so. Out at the street you need more optical zoom only obtained by a camera with a larger focal length.

The AI of the cameras and in BI have come a long way. I rarely have a false trigger. Now a lot of that comes down to having the right camera for the right field of view. Too many people make the mistake of trying to do too much with one camera and then it fails.

Take a look at my posts in this thread:

Who uses Dahua AI capable cameras? Reliable AI for triggering events? Pro's/con's?

It has come to my attention that certain Dahua cameras come with built in AI that distinguishes between human & cars. I was unaware of this. Well, always saw the AI word used in the reviews but never really thought about it because I thought it was a Dahua NVR integration only. I am currently...

ipcamtalk.com

I will give you a preview, during a blizzard, my old NVR would have been triggering all night. My AI only triggered when there was an actual person in the field of view:



And you would probably want to add a camera to get plates.

The 5241-Z12E is a fan favorite here. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night with a 1/2,000 shutter and 8 FPS of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my Z12E that is on the 2nd story soffit, Camera is 35 feet above street at this location.