IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE with the I.R. vs IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED with L.E.D.

[Redbone]

Recently purchase 1 of each of the IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE with the I.R. and IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED with L.E.D. The difference on paper between these 2 cams is one having Infra-Red and the other having a L.E.D. light. My field experience is different in terms of low light visibility performance. I tested both of these in the same area with both the I.R. turned off and the L.E.D. light turn off respectively making sure all other parameters were the same . The I.R. (ASE) variant provided a brighter clearer picture at night vs the L.E.D. variant.
Finally see why the IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE and similar Dahua 5442 cams with infrared have become go to cams for those seeking higher night time visibility in low light situations at a decent price. In smaller areas found that Dahua I.R. cams with smaller C.M.O.S. sensor are sufficient but in larger areas such as a driveway I won't be using anything with a sensor smaller than 1/1.8" (~ 7.11 x 5.33 mm) unless some new technology supersedes the current mantra of "bigger is better".

 

[Perimeter]

The I.R. (ASE) variant provided a brighter clearer picture at night vs the L.E.D. variant.

So you have tested them both in color, or did you test the IR camera in B/W mode?

 

[Redbone]

So you have tested them both in color, or did you test the IR camera in B/W mode?

Tried both with B/W and color. The ASE was able to provide color with lower ambient lighting than the LED version.

 

[Perimeter]

Tried both with B/W and color. The ASE was able to provide color with lower ambient lighting than the LED version.

You got the Dahua versions? Andy is offering the LED successor model (-S2), which is a Dahua 5449 version. That thing does beat the IR version in color, as the lens will let over 3 times the light in.

Out of curiosity, what settings did you use for exposure when you did the comparison?

 

[Redbone]

You got the Dahua versions? Andy is offering the LED successor model (-S2), which is a Dahua 5449 version. That thing does beat the IR version in color, as the lens will let over 3 times the light in.

Out of curiosity, what settings did you use for exposure when you did the comparison?

Encode as shown. Shutter priority 1/60. Backlight off with white balance auto.

 

[looktall]

How much improvement is there from turning the led on?
Presumably it's going to perform better than the IR with IR turned off.

 

[Redbone]

Maybe I had a dud, but the I.R. variant was better all around. Also the L.E.D. version light isn't that low of a setting at #1 vs other Dahua cams with L.E.D. I now prefer to use an offset I.R. illuminator for added visibility or light away from the camera as it minimizes the majority of false triggers in the summer months from bug attracted to camera onboard light.

 

[alecz]

Strange since according to Dahua' datasheet, the sensitivities are:

• IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE (IR): 0.002 lux@F1.6 (Color, 30 IRE)
• IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED: 0.0016Lux/F1.6 ( Color,1/3s,30IRE)

So I would expect the LED to have slightly better nighttime performance than the IR one.

Refs:

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/au/products/All-Products/Discontinued-Products/Network-Cameras/IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/asset/upload/uploads/soft/20190506/DH-IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED.pdf

 

[wittaj]

Strange since according to Dahua' datasheet, the sensitivities are:

• IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE (IR): 0.002 lux@F1.6 (Color, 30 IRE)
• IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED: 0.0016Lux/F1.6 ( Color,1/3s,30IRE)

So I would expect the LED to have slightly better nighttime performance than the IR one.

Refs:

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/au/products/All-Products/Discontinued-Products/Network-Cameras/IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/asset/upload/uploads/soft/20190506/DH-IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED.pdf

You don't know what shutter speed the ASE model Lux Rating was developed under.

And for the record, the LED number are based on a 1/3s shutter and NOBODY here would run a camera at 1/3s shutter, except for maybe strictly overview cams.

Many do not pay attention to the minimum illumination specs...because those are under ideal situations with so many factors not known.

Almost every camera will say 0 LUX with infrared or white LED on, and we all know how poorly Reolinks perform at night in low light yet that is their spec....or even two different good cameras. Take for example the 5442 4MP2.8mm fixed lens camera will beat the socks off the 5241 2MP 2.8mm fixed lens or a Reolink and they both say 0 Lux with IR on.

Heck darn near every camera will say 0 LUX with IR on....

Once upon a time manufacturers would at least say at what shutter speed that rating was based on. Most would say a 1/3 shutter. That is way to slow for anything. You need to run minimum 1/60 shutter to start to minimize blur.

But now they don't even provide that, so in most cases it is a wide open iris, slowest shutter the camera allows, and gain and brightness cranked to 100 so that they can get the lowest illumination number possible.

But nobody would run the camera in that configuration.

Some of the older cameras would give these kind of specs so you knew how the camera was setup to come up with the minimum illumination.

0.002Lux/F1.5 ( Color,1/3s,30IRE)
0.020Lux/F1.5 ( Color,1/30s,30IRE)
0Lux/F1.5 (IR on)

So of course, the faster the shutter, the more light that is needed, and thus the LUX needed is more. It would be nice if they still provided it in this manner.

To minimize blur with motion, you need to run a shutter at at least 1/60 shutter - once you start doing that, the LUX specs are out the window.

But as more competition came out, manufacturers started playing games and tweaking the settings for getting the lowest lux possible, but that came at a cost of a configuration nobody would use. So they wouldn't say how the camera was configured to capture that minimum illumination rating.

They play these marketing games to make it look like the camera is better than it is for someone that is just chasing minimum illumination numbers. Kind of like how we rarely get the miles per gallon a car is rated for.

It is a tool, but I would prefer to see the reviews here with settings provided and make an educated guess as to if my light is more or less than the reviewer.

 

[alecz]

You don't know what shutter speed the ASE model Lux Rating was developed under.

And for the record, the LED number are based on a 1/3s shutter and NOBODY here would run a camera at 1/3s shutter, except for maybe strictly overview cams.

Many do not pay attention to the minimum illumination specs...because those are under ideal situations with so many factors not known.
...

To minimize blur with motion, you need to run a shutter at at least 1/60 shutter - once you start doing that, the LUX specs are out the window.


They play these marketing games to make it look like the camera is better than it is for someone that is just chasing minimum illumination numbers. Kind of like how we rarely get the miles per gallon a car is rated for.

It is a tool, but I would prefer to see the reviews here with settings provided and make an educated guess as to if my light is more or less than the reviewer.

I'm am comparing very similar models from the same manufacturer. I would expect them to at least be consistent when testing, especially on models for which the only difference is the IR vs LED capability. Why would they pay different marketing tricks for their own cameras?

I would expect the shutter speed for the IR version to be the same 1/3s.

Unfortunately the reviews here are a bit too subjective. I haven't seen reviewers "measure" the quality of night videos in controlled conditions and with quantifiable results. The manufacturer's specs are the closest, but of course I could never compare specs from different manufacturers or even across product lines.