"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

Ri22o

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I have gained a lot of knowledge since I signed up and wanted to share my experience and examples of improvements and changes for others who are coming from a "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" system mentality.

My ongoing "build/looking for advice" thread can be found here.

The post includes the original Dahua model numbers, but I have edited to add the updated Loryta/Empiretech model number and link where necessary.

Immediately below are images from my Lorex system with 2.8mm cameras. I had a mix of 1080p analogs and 2K POEs. I thought I had a good system because I could see a lot. I even got defensive when I first came here asking for opinions on what models to replace them with when I was told they were all too high, wrong focal length, etc. (Not to mention they were all on defaults and my night captures were less than usable...)

Refer back to these images when looking at the recent captures down below with some of the changes I have made while working on righting my wrongs and changing FOVs, focal lengths, install locations, and install heights to increase the likelihood of better face captures which will lead to being able to ID someone.

LHV2016-DFS3_ch3_jpg_20200607140100.jpg
LHV2016-DFS3_ch4_jpg_20200607140100.jpg


This was my coverage of the back gate with a T5442T-ZE (12mm) (T54IR-ZE) on the 2nd floor soffit. The install height was 20-22' with a horizontal distance to the gate of 85'.
I was definitely not going to be able to ID anyone, especially at night.
Back_Yard, North 2023-03-25 06.47.33.400 PM.jpg

This is the replacement B5442E-Z4E (32mm) (B54IR-Z4E) at the same 2nd floor soffit install location (L) and after I moved it down to the deck roof (R). The new distance is 11' install height with a horizontal distance of 65'.
The extra zoom helped immensely, but the image on the right has a better chance of ID.
Back_Gate 2023-03-26 01.36.15.618 PM.jpgBack_Gate 2023-05-16 07.48.24.154 AM.jpg

I have an "alley" between my fence and my neighbor's that was created when he installed his fence closer to his house than on the property line. I wanted to be able to watch people who use this to get to the walking path behind our houses. I had already chose the T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) for this location but wanted to show the difference between a 2.7mm overview and a tight 12mm on the alley opening. Install height is 11' with a horizontal distance of 33'.
Alley 2023-03-27 09.19.30.533 PM.jpg

This is the same T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) as above, but zoomed in to 12mm.
The chance of an ID shot has been increased.
Double_Bay 2023-01-02 02.56.37.324 PM.jpgDouble_Bay 2023-01-02 02.56.45.3 PM.jpg

This was my front yard camera mounted on the 2nd floor soffit, overlooking the alley area shown above. Install height is 20-22'. This was a T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) at approximately 3.6mm.
It allowed me to see the yard, street, sidewalk, etc but I never would have been able to ID anyone.
Front Yard, North.jpg

This is the new FOV with a fixed T5442TM-AS 2.8mm (T54IR-AS). The focal length is shorter than when this view was on the 2nd floor soffit, but the lower mounting height of 7' gives a better angle for potential ID.
Front Yard, North 2023-01-02 02.56.30.433 PM.jpgFront Yard, North 2023-01-02 02.56.48.280 PM.jpg

This is the 3541F-AS-M (2.8mm) installed at my front door. With these three shots you can tell the difference a lower height makes compared to the fixed T5442TM-AS 3.6mm (T54IR-AS) above the front door (L) and the lower front yard FOV (R).
Front_Door 2023-01-06 04.48.43.516 PM.jpg
Front_Porch 2023-01-06 04.48.43.356 PM.jpgFront Yard, North 2023-01-06 04.48.43.3 PM.jpg

Similar to my back gate, this was the overview of my back yard from the 2nd floor soffit (20-22' height) with a fixed T5442TM-AS 2.8mm (T54IR-AS) (L) and then a 3.6mm (R). I have since lowered this view down to the deck roof and added other cameras to fill in gaps, but the significant difference in ID-ability from a 2.8mm to the 3.6mm is huge. I lost the view of the rest of the yard, but a camera that sees everything can't necessarily ID someone and a camera meant to ID someone won't necessarily see everything.
Deck 2023-03-30 02.10.14.743 PM.jpgBack_Yard 2023-04-03 03.24.21.348 PM.jpg

Originally I had wanted an overview of the front yard and driveway (before I knew any better).
I had installed a fixed T5442TM-AS (3.6mm) (T54IR-AS) on the 2nd floor soffit. I was able to see a lot with it, but after I received the 4K-X (3.6mm) (Color4K-X) and played with it on the lower soffit I realized I could see about the same items at distance but had a much closer view of the driveway and anyone who might be on it. Going from a 20-22' install height to 11' was a big change and not a big change, all at the same time.
Front Yard, South 2022-11-11 01.29.14.287 PM.jpgDriveway, South 2022-11-11 01.29.02.87 PM.jpg

This was one of my driveway cameras. It was a varifocal T5442T-ZE (5mm) (T54IR-ZE) and its purpose was for door checkers. I could have left it and probably been fine, but ideally you would want it lower than the 11' height it was mounted.
Single_Bay 2023-04-06 10.34.21.684 AM.jpg

With the 4K-X (3.6mm) (Color4K-X) being used as a general driveway overview and to capture color details I have T5442T-ZEs (T54IR-ZE) installed under both of the garage door headers at approx. 7' (I moved the one posted above down) and zoomed all of the way in to 12mm. The longer focal length and shallower angle gives good detail of faces as people walk up the driveway. The 4K-X (Color4K-X) would not have been ideal for ID in this situation.
Driveway 2023-04-06 10.32.27.307 PM.jpgDouble_Bay 2023-04-06 10.32.27.646 PM.jpgDriveway 2023-04-06 10.41.22.625 PM.jpgSingle_Bay 2023-04-06 10.41.23.199 PM.jpg

And to show the difference between a fixed T5442TM-AS 2.8mm (T54IR-AS) and a varifocal T5442T-ZE at 12mm (T54IR-ZE) I have these shots. These are new installs placed with information I have learned and gained from my journey above.
For reference, both of the T5442T-ZE (T54IR-ZE) cams below are installed above the guy kneeling on the deck, near the post, and pointed respectively.

A "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" mentality does not work here for ID. You can see the two men, but you can't see who they are. I have the 2.8mm strictly for overview of the deck and the 12mm views for ID of someone coming up the step or leaving the porch/house.
Deck 2023-05-15 05.41.05.497 PM.jpg
Deck_Stairs 2023-05-15 05.41.04.890 PM.jpgScreen_Door 2023-05-15 01.54.09.879 PM.jpg
 
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CanCuba

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Excellent write-up with great pictures to demonstrate exactly the points you were trying to get across!

This would make a great pinned post and/or put in the Cliff's Note and Wiki.

I'm slowly upgrading my system and want to get here you're at. Unfortunately, my cameras are mounted at least 15' off the ground as I own the flat on the 2nd floor (1st floor for Europeans) and the ceilings for each floor are 15' high. Less than ideal but I do my best.

Just this afternoon, the police sector boss came by to view the videos. Someone was robbed in the street of their electric scooter. Turns out they passed by my place but only the 2.8mm cameras that I'm replacing caught them.

They were about to turn the corner and pass by both my facial detection cameras (Color4K/X and SD1A404XB) but instead went straight.

I'll get there and I'll definitely refer to this post as I continue to improve my system!
 

onyxlinkia

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I'm in the process of selecting new cameras. Is it a good idea to get T5442T-ZE if i can't decide on 2.8 or 3.6mm lens? Also, by mounting camara lower (<8 ft), does it increase the risk of it getting vandalized?
 

Ri22o

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Excellent write-up with great pictures to demonstrate exactly the points you were trying to get across!

This would make a great pinned post and/or put in the Cliff's Note and Wiki.

I'm slowly upgrading my system and want to get here you're at. Unfortunately, my cameras are mounted at least 15' off the ground as I own the flat on the 2nd floor (1st floor for Europeans) and the ceilings for each floor are 15' high. Less than ideal but I do my best.

Just this afternoon, the police sector boss came by to view the videos. Someone was robbed in the street of their electric scooter. Turns out they passed by my place but only the 2.8mm cameras that I'm replacing caught them.

They were about to turn the corner and pass by both my facial detection cameras (Color4K/X and SD1A404XB) but instead went straight.

I'll get there and I'll definitely refer to this post as I continue to improve my system!
Thanks. I am not admitting to knowing anything, but just wanted to help anyone who was in a similar situation to myself when I joined and needed to revise my system.
I'm in the process of selecting new cameras. Is it a good idea to get T5442T-ZE if i can't decide on 2.8 or 3.6mm lens? Also, by mounting camara lower (<8 ft), does it increase the risk of it getting vandalized?
If you are absolutely between a 2.8mm or a 3.6mm, it's hard to say but I would maybe go 3.6mm. A varifocal would definitely not be bad choice though as you might end up finding that you want to go more than 3.6mm.

Vandals are going to vandal, but if the camera is set up properly you would hopefully catch them in the act.
 
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This thread right here. What I tell new folks all the time is to start out small, like with one good varifocal and test, test, test. Once you gain experience, just like you did, your cam plan changes.

This thread is great since you show what you did before having the experience and how you changed your outlook and cam plan. Also, you still kept some overview cams, which are good for your overall cam plan.
 

wittaj

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Awesome documentation of your journey!

Most of us have been on this journey, but ours was over multiple years so we didn't have as good of an image trail as you have.

I added a link to it in My Importance of Focal Length thread. While I am thinking of it I am going to add links to @samplenhold great threads as well!

 

Ri22o

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With the updates to the model numbers I decided I should make edits to the post. It includes the original Dahua model numbers, but I have edited to add the updated Loryta/Empiretech model number and link where necessary.
 

camdensnyder

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@Ri22o I was also looking at the IPC-E3541F-AS-M for a front door cam. Do you still use this model? If so, how do you like it and how do you have it mounted (ceiling or sidewall)? I’m just getting into this and this thread was very helpful! Thank you sir!
 
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