I think some of you miss the most basic part of security

[Prinler]

The main point of security is to 1st DETER the person from attempting to break the law.
Everyone it seems is so focused on catching people. The main goal is to let the crook know they are being recorded. They don't need to know how good your system is. The simple fact that you have one will freak them out and they will move on to someone else house. This is exactly why you have a home alarm sign posted in the yard. You need a sign that lets them know before they enter the property. Once someone takes your peace of mind, there is no quick way of getting it back.

1st Deter them
2nd Secure your property, lock the doors to your car, house, shed, gate...
3rd proper placement of cameras with proper lighting.
4th proper defensive weapon when you see them live. My favorite is a loud taser. A few cracks of that while your asking them why they are in your drive way looking into your cars and they will run so darn fast.

Just an observation and some experience.


-Prinler

 

[weigle2]

The main point of security is to 1st DETER the person from attempting to break the law.
Everyone it seems is so focused on catching people. The main goal is to let the crook know they are being recorded. They don't need to know how good your system is. The simple fact that you have one will freak them out and they will move on to someone else house. This is exactly why you have a home alarm sign posted in the yard. You need a sign that lets them know before they enter the property. Once someone takes your peace of mind, there is no quick way of getting it back.

1st Deter them
2nd Secure your property, lock the doors to your car, house, shed, gate...
3rd proper placement of cameras with proper lighting.
4th proper defensive weapon when you see them live. My favorite is a loud taser. A few cracks of that while your asking them why they are in your drive way looking into your cars and they will run so darn fast.

Just an observation and some experience.


-Prinler

Tasers in Illinois are treated the same as a long gun. So displaying that in public, would be considered brandishing for which it is possible to lose your FOID card (will no longer to be able to buy a gun or ammo). YES, Illinois is a state that favors the criminal when it comes to self defense. I no longer travel in to Chicago because of all the insane rules they have.

 

[HMS]

This may be the case for some, but not all. For some of us having the video evidence is the next best thing because when they scale the fence, cut the razor wire and flip the camera the proverbial "BIRD" Signs just don't cut it.

Not shooting you down, your ideas all have merit depending on your location.

 

[Prinler]

Wow, you cant brandish a less lethal form of defense? WOW! I thought California was bad.

 

[HMS]

Heh, in Illinois you could loose your FOID card for brandishing a spork with more then 3 points on it..

 

[Shockwave199]

Unless you do have a shit load of valuables and you were cased all along, most crime is crime of opportunity. So yes, lock your car. Lock your home. Put signs out. Keep whatever camera system you have in good working order. If you're so inclined, keep your weapons locked and loaded. Frankly if they want to rob you, really want to rob you, nothing will stop that. They have the advantage of surprise. We can't sit on guard every minute of every day. 98% of the time I don't check a single thing on camera playback. I do monitor my cameras all night long, including audio, but that's because of my circumstances and most people don't stay up all night just because. Even then, I'm not watching live view every minute of the night. I can't say how many times my efforts have made a crook move on because I'm not sure. I have life to live and it largely does not involve looking over my shoulder every second of the day. You do what you can and beyond that it's just a matter odds. All we do is just try to tip the odds in our favor a bit. Also, don't underestimate the worth of even one neighbor to be tight enough with to keep an eye on each other's property when you're away. Neighbors in solidarity to keep eyes out can be effective too. Good luck everyone. I hope we all see only boring stuff on our cameras.

Ps- all of you who are into security cameras would do well to include that passion in the car with dash cameras. The amount of shit that happens which I record every second of while driving far, far exceeds anything my home cameras catch.

 

[JFire]

Wow, you cant brandish a less lethal form of defense? WOW! I thought California was bad.

In PA any electronic "stun" device is a prohibited offensive weapon.

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[mat200]

The main point of security is to 1st DETER the person from attempting to break the law.
Everyone it seems is so focused on catching people. ...

FYI - Deter has not worked in my recent case, thus looking for better cameras which can ID and catch people....

 

[hmjgriffon]

Tasers in Illinois are treated the same as a long gun. So displaying that in public, would be considered brandishing for which it is possible to lose your FOID card (will no longer to be able to buy a gun or ammo). YES, Illinois is a state that favors the criminal when it comes to self defense. I no longer travel in to Chicago because of all the insane rules they have.

no wonder criminals shoot people all the time in Chicago, what a shit hole, the people there are either retarded, or cowards because they allow laws like that. I hope for deterrence but I've got a dog in case, and i'm armed if they come in when I'm here but yeah, it's all odds, I also take pics of everything valuable including serial numbers for insurance if it does happen. Thieves are right down there with child molestors, maybe if we didn't have so many pussy liberals trying to be criminal apologists and slapping them on the wrists, and had real punishment for theft like DEATH for ANY kind of theft, it might deter even more. I sincerely hope every single thief dies in their endeavor.

 

[JFire]

@hmjgriffon There is no deterrent for crime. The death penalty doesn't deter crime it just insures that person won't have the opportunity to commit the crime again.

In 23 years as a CO I've learned that offenders don't concern themselves with the consequences of their actions till their caught or until the judge renders the guilty verdict. Even then some are delusional to the point that they'll win on appeal and regain their freedom.

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[hmjgriffon]

@hmjgriffon There is no deterrent for crime. The death penalty doesn't deter crime it just insures that person won't have the opportunity to commit the crime again.

In 23 years as a CO I've learned that offenders don't concern themselves with the consequences of their actions till their caught or until the judge renders the guilty verdict. Even then some are delusional to the point that they'll win on appeal and regain their freedom.

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I am perfectly okay with that, even if they only get to commit the crime once and never again, it's absolutely worth it.

 

[Mike K]

The main point of security is to 1st DETER the person from attempting to break the law.
Everyone it seems is so focused on catching people. The main goal is to let the crook know they are being recorded. They don't need to know how good your system is. The simple fact that you have one will freak them out and they will move on to someone else house. This is exactly why you have a home alarm sign posted in the yard. You need a sign that lets them know before they enter the property. Once someone takes your peace of mind, there is no quick way of getting it back.

1st Deter them
2nd Secure your property, lock the doors to your car, house, shed, gate...
3rd proper placement of cameras with proper lighting.
4th proper defensive weapon when you see them live. My favorite is a loud taser. A few cracks of that while your asking them why they are in your drive way looking into your cars and they will run so darn fast.

Just an observation and some experience.


-Prinler

NOPE! I want to catch the SOBs !!

 

[hmjgriffon]

NOPE! I want to catch the SOBs !!

and END them, or at least make them sorry they were ever born lol and if I can't end them, I will make it my life's mission to ruin theirs.

 

[Mike K]

and END them, or at least make them sorry they were ever born lol and if I can't end them, I will make it my life's mission to ruin theirs.

serious jail time!

 

[hmjgriffon]

serious jail time!

depends, in fl if they break in the house, their life is forfeit, if they are breaking into the car or something, you can beat them to a pulp with non deadly force, then have them arrested, and then torture them for the rest of their days in various ways that are not illegal lol.

 

[MakoMillenium]

We all have a plan until we get punched in the face - Mike Tyson

I think 90% of people here are in the hobby nice to have camera leauge and crime detection / deterrence is an added benefit and that's the way it should be for everyone. I've lived through a zero crime doors unlocked at night era that evolved over a short ten year period into an electric fence, razor wire, armed response, anti-dig, tactical response era.

Criminals evolve and are almost always underestimated. Almost every system can be defeated or bypassed. Hardened perimeters sometimes attract criminals even dog patrols raise their curiosity and they find a way to get in.

Certain individual characters can deal with or are prepared to deal with single criminals but when the criminals outnumber the victim the odds go out of the window. Pepper spray or stun devices (I understand 'Taser' to be a wired electrode launcher and not commonly found in public hands and it has drawbacks) may be helpful in a one on one but they require one to be prepared to get in close.

I don't for one moment suggest vehicles should be left unlocked but locking vehicles will only deter casual criminals. Locked vehicles suggest valuables inside. Radios are no longer feasible when they're built in and require unlock codes but laptops and handbags are the prize they're after especially during the day when we stop by here and there.

If crime is a concern at home and especially contact crime:
At home the single best protection is an audible early warning. Audio allows one to relax and move about without being tied to screens. This may be a beam/detector system that is live 24/7. They beam/detector may be hidden along with an overtly placed one that serves as a deterrent for the casual criminal and the hidden beam set to trigger when the more determined criminal crawls under the overt beam/detector (They don't expect a second layer). In it's simplest form the beams are wired to a buzzer for example to identify the front perimeter and maybe a chime for the back perimeter. They don't have to be loud and it's evident that the residents very quickly adapt to the sounds and react automatically. Even when sleeping they can wake one and one can recall if it was a buzzer or chime etc that one heard rather than a general alarm. When leaving home they can be latched to the home alarm. They can also be set to be bypassed when mowing lawns etc.
Next in line is CCTV in order to view the source of the perimeter alarm and CCTV in general.

In a high crime community where police may be ineffective a fast tactical team response to incidents is important with CCTV backup (for identifying routes). if suspects are never detained they just evolve into a bigger threat. Resolution is secondary to broad outlines of direction, time, clothing, especially shoes and pants (Tops are worn in layers and reversed or discarded). Frame rate set high enough to reveal mannerisms can sometimes be beneficial in identifying a suspect but the viewer has to be familiar with that individual. Of course resolution should not be ignored but I've seen a lot of disappointment when high resolution never revealed a traceable identity

As the OP rightly said, "security should deter" but be prepared for things to evolve to the next level.

 

[hmjgriffon]

We all have a plan until we get punched in the face - Mike Tyson

I think 90% of people here are in the hobby nice to have camera leauge and crime detection / deterrence is an added benefit and that's the way it should be for everyone. I've lived through a zero crime doors unlocked at night era that evolved over a short ten year period into an electric fence, razor wire, armed response, anti-dig, tactical response era.

Criminals evolve and are almost always underestimated. Almost every system can be defeated or bypassed. Hardened perimeters sometimes attract criminals even dog patrols raise their curiosity and they find a way to get in.

Certain individual characters can deal with or are prepared to deal with single criminals but when the criminals outnumber the victim the odds go out of the window. Pepper spray or stun devices (I understand 'Taser' to be a wired electrode launcher and not commonly found in public hands and it has drawbacks) may be helpful in a one on one but they require one to be prepared to get in close.

I don't for one moment suggest vehicles should be left unlocked but locking vehicles will only deter casual criminals. Locked vehicles suggest valuables inside. Radios are no longer feasible when they're built in and require unlock codes but laptops and handbags are the prize they're after especially during the day when we stop by here and there.

If crime is a concern at home and especially contact crime:
At home the single best protection is an audible early warning. Audio allows one to relax and move about without being tied to screens. This may be a beam/detector system that is live 24/7. They beam/detector may be hidden along with an overtly placed one that serves as a deterrent for the casual criminal and the hidden beam set to trigger when the more determined criminal crawls under the overt beam/detector (They don't expect a second layer). In it's simplest form the beams are wired to a buzzer for example to identify the front perimeter and maybe a chime for the back perimeter. They don't have to be loud and it's evident that the residents very quickly adapt to the sounds and react automatically. Even when sleeping they can wake one and one can recall if it was a buzzer or chime etc that one heard rather than a general alarm. When leaving home they can be latched to the home alarm. They can also be set to be bypassed when mowing lawns etc.
Next in line is CCTV in order to view the source of the perimeter alarm and CCTV in general.

In a high crime community where police may be ineffective a fast tactical team response to incidents is important with CCTV backup (for identifying routes). if suspects are never detained they just evolve into a bigger threat. Resolution is secondary to broad outlines of direction, time, clothing, especially shoes and pants (Tops are worn in layers and reversed or discarded). Frame rate set high enough to reveal mannerisms can sometimes be beneficial in identifying a suspect but the viewer has to be familiar with that individual. Of course resolution should not be ignored but I've seen a lot of disappointment when high resolution never revealed a traceable identity

As the OP rightly said, "security should deter" but be prepared for things to evolve to the next level.

100% agree, security is an Onion as they say, multiple layers, the more, the better.

 

[HMS]

100% agree, security is an Onion as they say, multiple layers, the more, the better.

Yup, and the closer they get to the middle, "Make Them Cry"

 

[hmjgriffon]

Yup, and the closer they get to the middle, "Make Them Cry"

haha!! I love that.

 

[Prinler]

I love it! Yes! Layers like an ogre lol.
I love the beam detectors. They make several ones that make 4 difference noises. My best bud uses them and he has met people, from a dead sleep, at a door or window with his shot gun. They will be jiggling the handle and checking windows... Then he steps out and asks " Can I help you?" racks his shot gun. One guy got so hurt jumping over the fence where was blood all the way to his car!!!
Hes been robbed 3 times. He is a local business owner in a small town. Tree trimming company, and his workers are very.... um...... under educated and usually have drug problems.

As for a dog, they are only as good as the steak or bone they are thrown when breaking in. Dogs get confused and would rather nosh on meat then care about your house being broken into.

Speco Tech has a DVR with a digital deterrent. It has 2 way audio with cellphone alerts. It can either play an automated message or allow you to scream at them from your cell app. Would you ever consider using this option?