How to best power power supplemental IR illuminator from same PoE powering camera?

[DavidAJ]

I have several Dahua Starlight 2 MP cameras that have been purchased through Andy over several years. Despite having good cameras, I find it hard to identify specific vehicles on our property at night. I'm planning on testing out an IR illuminator such as this one, after watching this video. I've got the cameras mounted in places that I don't want to run 120 volt power to power a wall wart and am trying to figure out how to power the illuminator from the same PoE feeding the camera (from a Unifi PoE switch). I've found PoE breakout devices such as this that split out 12 volt, 2 amp (optimistic is appears and it would appear that that would only be possible on a 802.3at switch) power from the PoE Ethernet. Unfortunately, it doesn't maintain PoE on the Ethernet cable coming from the device so I would have to use a 12V splitter such as this to power both the IR illuminator and the camera while still using the male RJ-45 for the data connection to the camera.

Is there a more elegant solution to this problem? I guess that I could run a second Ethernet cable only for the purpose of powering the IR illuminator with the PoE splitter, but it would be really nice to do power both devices from a single Ethernet run. The cameras are pulling 3 watts so even with the illuminator pulling the rated 12 watts, it seems like it is right on the limit of what can be run over 802.3af (15.4 watts for any of my 8-port unifi switches) with a little more headroom on a 802.3at switch (25.5 watts for my 24-port 250 watt unifi switch). While not as much illumination, I could downgrade to something like this illuminator, which supposedly only pulls 8 watts if I had to.

Also, have any of you found any other illuminators that you consider superior to the ones that I linked to?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Davidaj

 

[Teken]

I have several Dahua Starlight 2 MP cameras that have been purchased through Andy over several years. Despite having good cameras, I find it hard to identify specific vehicles on our property at night. I'm planning on testing out an IR illuminator such as this one, after watching this video. I've got the cameras mounted in places that I don't want to run 120 volt power to power a wall wart and am trying to figure out how to power the illuminator from the same PoE feeding the camera (from a Unifi PoE switch). I've found PoE breakout devices such as this that split out 12 volt, 2 amp (optimistic is appears and it would appear that that would only be possible on a 802.3at switch) power from the PoE Ethernet. Unfortunately, it doesn't maintain PoE on the Ethernet cable coming from the device so I would have to use a 12V splitter such as this to power both the IR illuminator and the camera while still using the male RJ-45 for the data connection to the camera.

Is there a more elegant solution to this problem? I guess that I could run a second Ethernet cable only for the purpose of powering the IR illuminator with the PoE splitter, but it would be really nice to do power both devices from a single Ethernet run. The cameras are pulling 3 watts so even with the illuminator pulling the rated 12 watts, it seems like it is right on the limit of what can be run over 802.3af (15.4 watts for any of my 8-port unifi switches) with a little more headroom on a 802.3at switch (25.5 watts for my 24-port 250 watt unifi switch). While not as much illumination, I could downgrade to something like this illuminator, which supposedly only pulls 8 watts if I had to.

Also, have any of you found any other illuminators that you consider superior to the ones that I linked to?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Davidaj

You've hit most the key points as it relates to the issue at hand so here are a few more to consider.

- Enclosure: You're going to need to place the splitter and POE injector in a enclosure as neither is outdoor weather rated. Simply stuffing the two up into the attic space is not NEC / CEC approved as its a fire hazard. This also makes it near impossible to access for maintenance, inspection, and replacement. The extreme heat will make that little POE Splitter have a very short service life.

- Power: Ideally all 12 VDC accessories are powered by a primary PSU that is centrally located. The industry standard is running 22-4, 20-4, 18-2, 16-2 copper wire. Going this route removes any high loads from the POE Switch and you simply have to terminate the end with the barrel plug required.

- Ethernet: Running another CAT-X on the surface makes sense but you still need to enclose the adapters / accessories.

- POE: There are POE IR LED's on the market and have been discussed here many times. This might be something to consider as they offer single cable connection, higher quality & reliability, and performance.

- POE Switch: If your switch is not AT rated you're setting yourself up to fail. This is one of the major reasons ports fail or the entire PSU in the switch burn up which results in reduced service life. In the worst case scenario use a POE Injector to power IR LED.

 

[wittaj]

The bigger question is which cameras do you have (focal lengths) and how far away are the vehicles you want to IDENTIFY?

2.8mm cameras will not IDENTIFY a vehicle 200 feet away no matter how much IR you throw at it, especially if they are moving.

Here are my general distance recommendations:

• fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 2.8mm to 12mm varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 2.8mm to 32 mm varifocal - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 2.8mm to 64mm varifocal - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

 

[Mike A.]

I'm pretty sure most all of my Dahua cams pull more that 3 watts with IR on. I can tell you better in a little while once more switch over but typically looks more like 4.5-6 from what I see now from the POE stats on my switch.

I run multiple cams on splitters including a couple of old cams that I just use for the added IR. I only have one location where I have to be careful about how high I set the IR on one cam; otherwise, I'll go beyond the 15.whatever limit of my switch and it shuts down both. But I'm not running anything near 12 watts. You'd likely be over with most any then.

 

[tigerwillow1]

2 more info tidbits:

1. There are a few POE splitters out there that also pass power to the network output. Wiring is simplified at the expense of more $$$. I think they're in the $50 ballpark.

2. If you want to squeak by at 15 watts thinking 3 watts for the camera with its IR shut off and 12 watts for the IR illuminator, you're risking trouble on a 15.4 watt port. If the camera ever reboots at night, you risk getting into an infinite loop of the port shutting down from overload, restarting, shutting down, etc. I've noted that on restart the cameras pull more than their steady-state power. Depending on model and firmware version, some cycle the IR lights full blast at startup, which would push you way over the port power limit. Compounding the situation, some of the port power is going up as heat in the cable to the camera. With my cameras, I'm ok with a 4-watt illuminator on a 15.4 watt port, using a ~250' wire. A 6 watt illuminator can push the port into the shutdown cycling until morning.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I use a separate 18/2 or 16/2 cable, depending on length, to power auxiliary IR illuminators. At the supply end a "Y" cable and a 3 amp wall wart easily handles two IRs.

 

[The Automation Guy]

In theory it is no problem to pigtail a IR emitter off a camera POE, but you'll definitely need to watch the wattage. If the wattage is too high, the POE port won't be able to power everything and your camera might cycle at weird times.

 

[DavidAJ]

Thanks everyone for your input. I'm probably going to try and split out PoE power for the illuminator, but from a PoE+ (802.3at) port as that should give me plenty of wattage overhead, and see how that goes. I'll try to report back to the thread about how it goes.

 

[TonyR]

Thanks everyone for your input. I'm probably going to try and split out PoE power for the illuminator, but from a PoE+ (802.3at) port as that should give me plenty of wattage overhead, and see how that goes. I'll try to report back to the thread about how it goes.

I'm a little late to the party but just in case this helps:
This splitter has a 12VDC output but also passes POE & data out its RJ-45 male (not cheap):==>> Tycon Power Systems - POE-MSPLT-4812P-F - PoE Splitter / Voltage Converter, 48VDC 802.3af PoE input and output, 12VDC @ 1A output, 12W, 5.5x2.1 connector



It may fit in this single-gang box but definitely will fit in a double gang. Although Bell/Taymac are popular, this Home Depot brand ("Commercial Electric" appears to not have the knock-outs punched and/or threaded, can't tell, haven't seen in person but I plan to ==>> Commercial Electric # WSB350PW