How to avoid alarms when foggy or snowing outside?

Plarsson

Plarsson

Getting the hang of it
Aug 17, 2020
82
35
Sverige
Hi,
A bit new to IP cams, but i managed to install my first one outdoors and Im running Milestone on a separate PC.
It's been working well since I put it up until last night. It was very foggy and the IR glare from the water drops gave me a ton of notifications. When I woke up I had 315 new notifications :)

What can you do about this? The only option in I see in Milestone is to fiddle around with the motion sensitivity, Is there anything on the camera side?
I have a hilook ipc-T240h (low end HikVision camera). I chose this for learning purposes and not very expensive.

Thanks a bunch!
 
I'm not at all familiar with that camera but will say problems like that are usually caused by IR LEDs being clustered around the lens. The simplest solution is to use an eternal IR illuminator separated from the camera by a foot or two. I can tell you that I have a number of Dahua turrets where the LEDs are mounted an inch or two away from the lens and don't have any problems with fog, rain or snow. The same is true of newer bullets with the IR LEDs mounted away from the lens rather than in a ring around the lens. All my older inexpensive, camera have that problem because of the IR LEDs being in a ring around the lens.
 
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OK, got it. But still, in heavy snow, dont you get motion detection active?

Here is a link to the camera specs IPC-T240H
 
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On the cameras with LEDs in rings around the lens, yes false triggers still happen. Very few, if any on the turrets and bullets that have the LEDs separated from the lens by an inch or so. The other problem the "ring around the rosie" has is that they also attract spiders which build webs to catch the bugs the IR lights attract. That problem does happen with any camera with built-in IR lights, but is very, very, reduced in them.

General rule of thumb is that "inexpensive" cameras have LEDs around the lens. Prosumer grade, and up, have the LEDs separated from the lens and use far fewer LEDs to do the job, IE one or two high powered versus a dozen, or so, low power on the "inexpensive".

I did look at the specs earlier but they don't describe, or show, the location of the IR LEDs. If you do install an external IR illuminator you should then shut off the IR LEDs on the camera. That is usually not a feature of inexpensive cameras, though.
 
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sebastiantombs said:
On the cameras with LEDs in rings around the lens, yes false triggers still happen. Very few, if any on the turrets and bullets that have the LEDs separated from the lens by an inch or so. The other problem the "ring around the rosie" has is that they also attract spiders which build webs to catch the bugs the IR lights attract. That problem does happen with any camera with built-in IR lights, but is very, very, reduced in them.

General rule of thumb is that "inexpensive" cameras have LEDs around the lens. Prosumer grade, and up, have the LEDs separated from the lens and use far fewer LEDs to do the job, IE one or two high powered versus a dozen, or so, low power on the "inexpensive".

I did look at the specs earlier but they don't describe, or show, the location of the IR LEDs. If you do install an external IR illuminator you should then shut off the IR LEDs on the camera. That is usually not a feature of inexpensive cameras, though.
Click to expand...

Actually, it is possible to turn off the IR leds. I still havent found any doc on how IR leds are placed. I'll just have to climb up to the camera and see.
 
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So this night was foggy again and generated tons of notifications.

I'm using Milestones motion detection, maybe it is better to use hikvisions own and generate event from camera?

If this is an issue with placement of ir leds and would be solved with a more expensive camera, what would you recommend? Is darkfighter or powered by dark fighter enough? That is, a camera that has only one large ir led? Any model suggestion with fov of approx 110 deg?

Don't mind camera placement. It is for convenience and learning purposes put at an easy mounting locationScreenshot_20200920-092058_Gmail.jpg
 
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im not familiar with Milestone, but in Blue Iris it is possible to create zones. See if you can create 2 zones and only make it trigger if an object passes van from one to another. This youtube video shows what i mean.

 
Kameraad said:
im not familiar with Milestone, but in Blue Iris it is possible to create zones. See if you can create 2 zones and only make it trigger if an object passes van from one to another. This youtube video shows what i mean.

Click to expand...



This is not part of milestone afaik. I don't know if this would solve the problem though. How about when it is snowing, which it will do since I live in Sweden
 
The trick is to create zones next to each other, not above each other. Only then it will trigger if the snow blows horizontally.
 
Plarsson said:
Ok. Anyhow it is not part of milestone so I don't have this feature available
Click to expand...

He's knows you don't have Blue Iris, he's just trying to show you some examples that maybe you can find Milestone's equivalent. If you don't have it, you're SOL, you should buy Blue Iris for the cheap price it is then.
 
Plarsson said:
This is not part of milestone afaik. I don't know if this would solve the problem though. How about when it is snowing, which it will do since I live in Sweden
Click to expand...

During snow, the cams that do the best for me are the ones with the IR lights off and are under cover (like a roof overhang) but still the snow is moving and it's just a pitfall of having tons of moving particles falling in the cameras view.
 
As planned right now, all my cameras will have cover, mainly from the house roof.

But the issue with fog, would this be solved by a more advanced camera say with colorvu technology? I cannot afford to go all the way to darkfighter.

Im trying to understand if this is a camera or software motion detection issue.
 
It's not a motion detection "issue" in the camera. The camera IS seeing motion due to the highly reflective particles passing directly in front of the lens. If you have enough ambient light, keeping the camera in color mode all night would help, but if it's really dark you will still need IR with the colorvu/darkfighter/starlight cameras. The simplest solution, as previously mentioned, is a separate IR source located a short distance from the camera and shutting off the IR in the camera but leaing it in "night" mode so it can see that IR light.
 
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Ok, thanks for replying.

I have a few lights on my house but my current HiLook is not providing good images with no ir during night. I know it is low end...

I dont have easy access to power for an ir illuminator, it was troublesome to get the poe there. Im guessing my best chance would be a colorvu, right?

It is strange, i cannot find many other users having problem with fog generating alarms. Maybe the fog is heavy in Sweden ;)
 
I've had problems with fog/mist/rain/snow generating false triggers, mostly with low end cameras but with Dahua as well. That's what got me to install auxiliary IR lighting. They can be powered with a PoE splitter to save pulling an additional cable. You'd need the splitter and a "Y" cable for the 12 volt output to divide it for the IR and the camera. Again, cameras with bigger sensors, 1/1.8" 2K/4mp, can help IF there is enough ambient light to let them stay in color mode 24/7, but if IR is needed at night they will have the same problem, only in high resolution.

Splitter -

Amazon.com: Urban Security Group PoE Splitter : Power Non-PoE Cameras :"Splits" Incoming PoE Signal to 12V DC Power + RJ45 Ethernet Video, 10/100Mbps, 15.4W Per Port, IEEE 802.3af, True Plug-&-Play : Electronics

Buy Urban Security Group PoE Splitter : Power Non-PoE Cameras :"Splits" Incoming PoE Signal to 12V DC Power + RJ45 Ethernet Video, 10/100Mbps, 15.4W Per Port, IEEE 802.3af, True Plug-&-Play: Switches - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com

"Y" cable -

Amazon.com : SIM&NAT 1 Female to 2 Male 5.5mm x 2.1mm DC Power Supply Splitter Cord, Y Splitter Adapter Wire, Y-Cable for Security CCTV Parking Camera, LED Strip Light, Pack of 2 : Camera & Photo

Amazon.com : SIM&NAT 1 Female to 2 Male 5.5mm x 2.1mm DC Power Supply Splitter Cord, Y Splitter Adapter Wire, Y-Cable for Security CCTV Parking Camera, LED Strip Light, Pack of 2 : Camera & Photo
www.amazon.com

IR Illuminator example -

Amazon.com : CMVision IR56-56 LED Indoor/Outdoor Long Range 100ft IR Illuminator with Free 500mA 12VDC Adapter : Infrared Motion Detectors : Camera & Photo

Amazon.com : CMVision IR56-56 LED Indoor/Outdoor Long Range 100ft IR Illuminator with Free 500mA 12VDC Adapter : Infrared Motion Detectors : Camera & Photo
www.amazon.com
 
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You keep talking about the camera but it is the Milestone software that is triggering the motion.

Are there no sensitivity settings/size restrictions in Milestone that lets you tinker with the motion detection ability?
 
biggen said:
You keep talking about the camera but it is the Milestone software that is triggering the motion.

Are there no sensitivity settings/size restrictions in Milestone that lets you tinker with the motion detection ability?
Click to expand...

Yes there are but none of them seem to help. Have you seen the clip i uploaded? I dont think it is possible to not get alarms if not having a very very low sensitivity.
 
sebastiantombs said:
I've had problems with fog/mist/rain/snow generating false triggers, mostly with low end cameras but with Dahua as well. That's what got me to install auxiliary IR lighting. They can be powered with a PoE splitter to save pulling an additional cable. You'd need the splitter nd a "Y" cable for the 12 volt output to divide it for the IR and the camera. Again, cmeras with bigger sensors, 1/1.8" 2K/4mp, can help IF there is enough ambient light to let them stay in color mode 24/7, but if IR is needed at night they will have the same problem, only in high resolution.

Splitter -

Amazon.com: Urban Security Group PoE Splitter : Power Non-PoE Cameras :"Splits" Incoming PoE Signal to 12V DC Power + RJ45 Ethernet Video, 10/100Mbps, 15.4W Per Port, IEEE 802.3af, True Plug-&-Play : Electronics

Buy Urban Security Group PoE Splitter : Power Non-PoE Cameras :"Splits" Incoming PoE Signal to 12V DC Power + RJ45 Ethernet Video, 10/100Mbps, 15.4W Per Port, IEEE 802.3af, True Plug-&-Play: Switches - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com

"Y" cable -

Amazon.com : SIM&NAT 1 Female to 2 Male 5.5mm x 2.1mm DC Power Supply Splitter Cord, Y Splitter Adapter Wire, Y-Cable for Security CCTV Parking Camera, LED Strip Light, Pack of 2 : Camera & Photo

Amazon.com : SIM&NAT 1 Female to 2 Male 5.5mm x 2.1mm DC Power Supply Splitter Cord, Y Splitter Adapter Wire, Y-Cable for Security CCTV Parking Camera, LED Strip Light, Pack of 2 : Camera & Photo
www.amazon.com

IR Illuminator example -

Amazon.com : CMVision IR56-56 LED Indoor/Outdoor Long Range 100ft IR Illuminator with Free 500mA 12VDC Adapter : Infrared Motion Detectors : Camera & Photo

Amazon.com : CMVision IR56-56 LED Indoor/Outdoor Long Range 100ft IR Illuminator with Free 500mA 12VDC Adapter : Infrared Motion Detectors : Camera & Photo
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...

Ok. Then I'll see what is available in Sweden. The items you linked to dont ship to Sweden or has a 25usd delivery fee...
 
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