Help with motion detection IPC-HDW5231R-Z

[suddenstop]

Hello all, just got two starlight turrets in replacing my old hikvision camera. So far I am super impressed with video quality improvement and lack of noise.

I do have one problem in my setup, and that is I am unable to get motion detection working on either camera. this leads me to beleive its a setup/software issue.

I went to event / video detection / motion detection and enabled it. I set the working periodr for all and saved it. I went in and configured the motion detection area, and jacked up the sensitivity (99) and reduced the threshold and dithering (1 and 2). I have the following browser experiences:

chrome with nacl plugin -
The bar chart showing motion detection is blank no matter what I do. The screen for setting the area, shows the blocks with motion in them flickering. This flickering does respond to sensitivity and it looks like its displaying the blocks that have motion.

safari with plugin -
The bar chart showing motion detection is blank no matter what I do. The screen setting the area does not respond at all to any movement.

edge -
The bar chart showing motion works! I can see a red line showing motion and the threshold being exceeded. There's no edge plugin, so I can't see the area.

I use synology surveillance station as my nvr. it simply does not pick up any motion or record from the camera. The green bar showing motion does not move, and recording is never initiated. I opened a ticket with synology, their last device pack has native support for the camera and I am using that.

IPC-HDW5231R-Z
Software Version2.460.0000.7.R

Is anyone having any similar experiences?

 

[aristobrat]

I had a similar experience using Surveillance Station a few months ago. Opened a support ticket with Synology, but ended up switching to a Dahua NVR before resolving it.

 

[Mike Mo]

@aristobrat Are you still have the issues of frame drop out in IVR/MD/alarms and ? nvr rebooting?

 

[aristobrat]

@aristobrat Are you still have the issues of frame drop out in IVR/MD/alarms and ? nvr rebooting?

I'm still having the frame dropouts when it cuts to video from IVS/Motion Detection. EmpireTecAndy has been playing middle-man between NVR owners here and Dahua support. A new firmware update for the 5XXX NVRs came out a few days ago, but it didn't help with the frame dropouts on my NVR.

No to the reboots, but there's still an underlying issue (IMO). I have one Hikvision camera connecting to my Dahua NVR. If I enable Motion Detection on this camera, that's when the reboots start. If I disable Motion Detection, no reboots. Right now, I have it disabled.

I'm also testing out Blue Iris. I'm very impressed with the extra functionality, but when accessing it remotely, its look/feel isn't as polished to me as with Dahua's iDMSS (or Hik's IVS-4200) iOS apps.

 

[Mike Mo]

I'm still having the frame dropouts when it cuts to video from IVS/Motion Detection. EmpireTecAndy has been playing middle-man between NVR owners here and Dahua support. A new firmware update for the 5XXX NVRs came out a few days ago, but it didn't help with the frame dropouts on my NVR.

No to the reboots, but there's still an underlying issue (IMO). I have one Hikvision camera connecting to my Dahua NVR. If I enable Motion Detection on this camera, that's when the reboots start. If I disable Motion Detection, no reboots. Right now, I have it disabled.

I'm also testing out Blue Iris. I'm very impressed with the extra functionality, but when accessing it remotely, its look/feel isn't as polished to me as with Dahua's iDMSS (or Hik's IVS-4200) iOS apps.

Thanks. I have a question about the frame dropout. I've read through all the 52 and 42 series of posts that also reported the same issue. Do you think the frame drop out issues is a record issue, or a playback issue? Some of the posts on the threads seem to suggest it is a playback issue, others a recording issue.

 

[aristobrat]

To me, it's a record issue.

The way I understand it (and I could be wrong, so please keep reading other ideas about this), when the camera notifies the NVR that an IVS or Motion Detection event has started, the NVR starts creating a separate recording for that event. But.... it doesn't usually start those recordings with an iFrame. iFrames are the only frames that contain complete images. The other frames just have the information about what's changed relative to the frame before it.

Seems like when playing back a file, if the first frame isn't an iFrame, most player will simply show nothing <i.e. black screen> for the following frames, until it comes across a frame that's an iFrame. From that frame on, it'll start showing stuff correctly. My cameras send an iFrame out every 20 frames, which is once a second. So my missing frames range anywhere from 1 second (worse case) to none (best case, which I rarely see). It's always somewhere in between, which is a noticeable glitch for me.

Handbrake is kind of interesting. If I try to convert a recording that doesn't start with an iFrame to a different type, it will not skip the initial frames. But since those frames only contain data about what's changed relative to the frame before it, you literally only get to see the action, you don't get to see the parts of the frame that didn't change -- that's all silver.

Not sure if that makes any sense. Give a shout if not.

 

[Mike Mo]

To me, it's a record issue.

The way I understand it (and I could be wrong, so please keep reading other ideas about this), when the camera notifies the NVR that an IVS or Motion Detection event has started, the NVR starts creating a separate recording for that event. But.... it doesn't usually start those recordings with an iFrame. iFrames are the only frames that contain complete images. The other frames just have the information about what's changed relative to the frame before it.

Seems like when playing back a file, if the first frame isn't an iFrame, most player will simply show nothing <i.e. black screen> for the following frames, until it comes across a frame that's an iFrame. From that frame on, it'll start showing stuff correctly. My cameras send an iFrame out every 20 frames, which is once a second. So my missing frames range anywhere from 1 second (worse case) to none (best case, which I rarely see). It's always somewhere in between, which is a noticeable glitch for me.

Handbrake is kind of interesting. If I try to convert a recording that doesn't start with an iFrame to a different type, it will not skip the initial frames. But since those frames only contain data about what's changed relative to the frame before it, you literally only get to see the action, you don't get to see the parts of the frame that didn't change -- that's all silver.

Not sure if that makes any sense. Give a shout if not.

Thanks, Could one increase the number of iframes captured. So instead 1 per 20, go to 2 for 20 or 4 for 20, that seems like it would improve the siutation. Would this have other consequences with reducing compression and storage capacity, or cause other problems? (forgive the noob terminology)

 

[suddenstop]

I've been using the synology for several years and it's been reliable in that time. I have two locations with devices, a bunch of storage, and I would need it even without the camera functions. So I am not really wanting to swap out to a dahua device.

It is very helpful though to know that others have the issue. if that's the case then most likely with firmware updates on both sides it would eventually be fixed. I can do continuous recording until then.

 

[aristobrat]

@suddenstop, I'd open a ticket w/ Synology support and see what they can do. This is a pretty popular camera, so they may have more information than they did a few months ago when I tried!

The main reason I switched to a Dahua NVR was because I really love how well the IVS features on the 5231 (like Line Crossing, but especially Intrusion Detection) work, and I wanted those to be able to trigger recordings. They were more reliable <less false positives> for me than Motion Detection. IVS events only trigger recordings when the NVR matches the camera. (i.e. Dahua cameras, Dahua NVR .. or Hik cameras, Hik NVR).

@Mike Mo, right idea. You increase the number of iframes captured by reducing the number of frames between them. The default for the 5231 turret is to take whatever frames-per-second you have it set for, and multiple that x2. So my FPS is set at 20, so it wants to default to doing an iframe every 40 frames. You can tweak that number lower, but only as low as your FPS. So right now my 5231 turrets are set at 20 FPS, with the iframe interval set at 20.

 

[Mike Mo]

To me, it's a record issue.

The way I understand it (and I could be wrong, so please keep reading other ideas about this), when the camera notifies the NVR that an IVS or Motion Detection event has started, the NVR starts creating a separate recording for that event. But.... it doesn't usually start those recordings with an iFrame. iFrames are the only frames that contain complete images. The other frames just have the information about what's changed relative to the frame before it.

Seems like when playing back a file, if the first frame isn't an iFrame, most player will simply show nothing <i.e. black screen> for the following frames, until it comes across a frame that's an iFrame. From that frame on, it'll start showing stuff correctly. My cameras send an iFrame out every 20 frames, which is once a second. So my missing frames range anywhere from 1 second (worse case) to none (best case, which I rarely see). It's always somewhere in between, which is a noticeable glitch for me.

Handbrake is kind of interesting. If I try to convert a recording that doesn't start with an iFrame to a different type, it will not skip the initial frames. But since those frames only contain data about what's changed relative to the frame before it, you literally only get to see the action, you don't get to see the parts of the frame that didn't change -- that's all silver.

Not sure if that makes any sense. Give a shout if not.

@suddenstop, I'd open a ticket w/ Synology support and see what they can do. This is a pretty popular camera, so they may have more information than they did a few months ago when I tried!

The main reason I switched to a Dahua NVR was because I really love how well the IVS features on the 5231 (like Line Crossing, but especially Intrusion Detection) work, and I wanted those to be able to trigger recordings. They were more reliable <less false positives> for me than Motion Detection. IVS events only trigger recordings when the NVR matches the camera. (i.e. Dahua cameras, Dahua NVR .. or Hik cameras, Hik NVR).

@Mike Mo, right idea. You increase the number of iframes captured by reducing the number of frames between them. The default for the 5231 turret is to take whatever frames-per-second you have it set for, and multiple that x2. So my FPS is set at 20, so it wants to default to doing an iframe every 40 frames. You can tweak that number lower, but only as low as your FPS. So right now my 5231 turrets are set at 20 FPS, with the iframe interval set at 20.

Thanks. My cameras and nvr are OTW so I guess will have to live with problem until firmwarw fix. Do you know if one can store trigger events to the in camera SD card that I will add. If so, is there still frame drop with that? I imagine if there are no issues with the sd card storage and I can just record ivs events local to the camera 128gb would get me around a week depending on number of triggers that go off. Thx

 

[suddenstop]

I have a ticket #1069263 open with synology, will post back when i get any answers. For now I am doing continuous recording and will try and follow through with the vendors for the fix. I also think it's possibly a Dahua issue, since even the web interfaces for motion are not bug free.

 

[bundy]

I have a ticket #1069263 open with synology, will post back when i get any answers. For now I am doing continuous recording and will try and follow through with the vendors for the fix. I also think it's possibly a Dahua issue, since even the web interfaces for motion are not bug free.

Hi @suddenstop did you get a solution for this? I have Just installed a IPC-HDW5231R-Z which I purchased form Andy at EmpireTech. Connected it to my QNAP running Surveillance Station. Motion events trigger but are not consistent. If I delete the Camera, set it up again I seem to get the first motion event or 2 working, then nothing after that.

I have installed ONVIF Device Manager (as recommended on forums here) to test Motion events are being triggered (Which they are) But the QNAP Surveillance Station is not initiating recording of those events.

I am not sure what I can do. (If anything) but as it stands now it as as good as useless unless I run continuous surveillance which I really dont want to do

Anyone have any tips or ideas?

 

[suddenstop]

Here's my story so far...

Synology support did get engaged, and they were fairly responsive. Sometimes their responses didn't make sense, but at least they answered back quickly. My ticket eventually got closed, and they came out with a new firmware / device pack. I am a huge fan of opening tickets with the vendors, the more the better, so that they know what their customers are having issues with and can respond accordingly.

That did in fact significantly improve the motion detection, but it was not perfect. My camera at the time was running the 7 firmware. Since it was not perfect I left on continuous recording.

Another member reported issues with the 14 firmware. I just recently got the 14 firmware from Andy, and was able to replicate the problem. I opened a new ticket with synology reporting that the latest dahua firmware is incompatible. I did this yesterday and already received the form response today.

I also started testing with generic onvif - and that actually works surprisingly well.

Note that these cams were an upgrade from my hik cams which simply worked perfectly with the synology. It's hard for me to move to a dahua nvr for a bunch of reasons, but that would just be rewarding them for their lack of interoperability. I'm guessing the issue is Dahua's. I am still thinking it will get sorted over time, and continuous recording IS an option for me. I'm also holding off on buying more Dahua cams in the meantime.

 

[suddenstop]

Synology support got it all working with the 14 firmware.

"Because DAHUA new firmware set resolution CGI has problems (will disconnect the camera in SVS), need to set the resolution on WEB UI first, then choose same resolution on SVS"

This fixed the disconnected and motion seems to be working much better though i am still testing that.