help me spec PC(s) for 30+ cam system

[blahh]

the system will be installed in 3 stages - there are 2 buildings and a storage lot to be covered. i dont know if it makes sense to put it all on 1 server or if 2 will work just as well or better. familiar with both exacq & digitalwatchdog SW features & like them, with DW being the cheaper option. looked at blueIris & it was relatively feature poor (multicam searching, resource intensive - i tested before intelHD features). the server wont have a "security" monitor to run, clients will be setup to access camera streams directly (SD / HD) - the server will provide for viewing recordings & for 1 or 2 internet/wifi clients occasionaly viewing live or recordings.

this will have all IP cams & Gb equipment (POE & other switches) with these cams (not more than 5 might be added):

23 cams - 4MP 6mm (2688x1520) 15f/s ~10Mb/s (Hikvision DS-2CD2042WD-I/6 - bought 2 for testing from 123securityproducts)
8 cams - 2.1MP (1920x1080) 15 f/s ~5Mb/s (already have these)

for a total of ~270Mb/s - using motion detect with masks (26 cams are outside)
this works out to ~3Tb/day max (constant recording) on some calculators i found online (exacq / stardot)

questions:
1. server hardware - 1 server or 2? i've read plenty of posts, notably by fenderman, about inexpensive HP & Dell systems ($300 w/ 3yr warranty on ebay? i'm not finding them with more than 1 yr) able to do a job. is that the case here? if i find good components in a small FF is it worth moving to a tower? DW is scalable (can integrate 2 servers) while BI can't? any help (links in PM if that's protocol) to specific systems or components are greatly appreciated - i have no problem building a server if it saves $100s, but no point if it doesn't. the DW cube has a 5yr warranty but seems a bit underpowered (i5-3550, 250w ps) for lots of 4MP cams & expensive @ $1620+
2. server storage (i have a server case with room for 6 storage drives), NAS and/or USB? may eventually get to 30+Tb
3. Intel NICs all around for recording & clients / realtec for clients workable?
4. for VMS i'm leaning toward DW spectrum - exacq being too expensive by comparison - but will listen to arguments for blueIris if addressing motion detection (no longer a hog) & search features being improved since the last time i tested it
5. using cat6a cable / ends (staggered crimp - not inline) for any run over 50' (many will be 100-200+') or between pc/switches; 5e for the rest - overkill or worth it?
6. cameras & licenses are available (and cheaper) on 123securityproducts dot com & (not as cheap) bhphotovideo dot com - any comments on these sellers or recommendations for others (nelly's doesnt sell the 4MP 6mm cam). am i going to see challenges with non-english firmware & need to learn about that?

any and all advice is appreciated. i'm happy to add any info to improve responses. thanks for your attention

 

[blake]

Why not just run one nvr or two if you want and be done? Install two 16ch NVR'S or a 32 channel nvr, a good poe switch and keep it simple. Client can log in using whatever app or straight into nvr. Easy!

 

[blahh]

why not? features. perhaps you can enlighten this n3wb & point me to some NVRs that are able to do synced & staggered multichannel playback, search for changes in a subarea of a recording & have mobile apps that behave like well designed mobile apps & not just an "easy" web page. (btw - i am the main client) i've read a bunch & never heard anyone talk about an nvr that has features like exacq or dw. but i'm here to learn & would be glad to know more.

thanks again to all helpers.

 

[blake]

Here we use two options. You can buy a computer with guts good enough to run Blue Iris software managing 30+ cams. Blue Iris gives you the most bang for your buck as far as customization and smooth app management on phones and tablets. This is what I and several others here use. If you want a set it and forget it then an NVR is the choice for that.

 

[blake]

Fenderman is the local BI/computer guru and will probably chime in at anytime.

 

[blahh]

thanks for your perspective. i've tested BI before the intelHD updates. since it was more resource demanding for direct to disk recording (no motion detection) than DW or exacq (using motion detection) which i also tested, perhaps some pc specs for BI running these 30+ cams would be more than enough to run DW. the $300 HP/Dell seems a bit weak to do up to 108MP/s ~ 270Mb/s. i understand bang for the buck being a big plus for BI, but i'm willing to pay for more features. i've also tested axxonNext which is free, with 1Tb limitation, that makes it an even better "bang" for anyone with 4 or 5 IP cams not needing weeks of recordings.

 

[blake]

If I understand it correctly, the latest BI version is the leader in feature based survellience software. I think there are a few here more computer say then me that can help you build a system capable of managing 30+ cams for the cost of one license.

 

[biggie]

especially when you @fenderman him

 

[blake]

For an NVR, look at the LTN0732-R8. It's a 32 channel nvr that plays back 16 channels simultaneously and runs all 32 channels at 20fps.

 

[blahh]

i guess i should test BI's latest version then to see what's new
the LTN0732 looks interesting but @ $3000+ can i take it for a test drive somewhere?

thanks

 

[blake]

Contact milkisbad on here. He is our LTS Rep.

 

[fenderman]

Blue iris is simply not designed for the load you want to place on it.. @Razer can give you advice on exacq...

 

[Razer]

Ok, I have a few quick thoughts specifically around Exacq. I understand the software is more expensive and that has been a stumbling block for many, you will be looking at $3500 for the license for Exacq with 34 cameras. The thing to remember is that your hardware requirements are much lower than they would be with other software solutions usually. This will free up your budget to spend on the software, and or on hard drives or whatever else you need in the project.

I just took a quick look at a location I am setting up now, as it used the last of my 4mp cameras. (I quit using the 4mp cameras and went back to the 3mp cams, the streams are less than half as large and the night video is better.) This location has a i5-4590 at 3.3 GHZ and 4gb of ram. SSD for the OS and then a couple of storage drives. 14 4mp cameras and then 7 3mp cameras and then a couple 2mp cameras and all are Hik. With the client not running the CPU is at 15% usage. With the client running and 4 cameras on screen I get 25% or so, and with every camera on screen at once it sits way up there are like 80% CPU usage. Still, it is actually running all cameras at once which I would never do with no issues which is impressive. Cameras are at 8fps for the most part, just a couple higher.

I purchased an HP business class system off the shelf as they have a three year warranty and then added the SSD and extra storage. The reasons I chose exacq is the web client is great, no need to install the actual client on my 40 users desktops, if they just need to see cameras then they just have a web link to hit and they can see what they want. Works great, we use it every day all day long at one location or another. Power users and admin can run the full client for pulling video and the like as needed. If you have more than one NVR in the future, say with more than one location, you can see them all at once in your one exacq client. I have 86 servers currently, it is important for me personally to be able to manage and work on them all easily.

You should be able to get a perfectly good server for exacq for little money, I have about 1k roughly in my servers total. Buy an off the shelf system, add SSD and WD Purple drives for storage. I only record on motion though, so you would need more storage than me that is for sure. Again, there are other options for sure but BI will not really do what you want in software, or it would take a pair of hefty i7 machines and you'd spend $3500 on getting them done right for your needs too. I looked at a lot of options before settling on exacq. It is not perfect, but for my needs specifically it works best.

If you have any specific questions or such on exacq let me know and I'll be happy to answer what I can. I also have a couple simple suggestions if someone goes exacq that are better in a PM if needed. I purchase my cams from LTS also. I have purchased other things from 123security with no issues, but my cams go to @milkisbad on here.


EDIT - Also in your case you could do two or three smaller exacq systems and still be able to see them all from one client. Then you could have the NVRs where convenient for locating cameras and not have fiber runs or whatever be a requirement to link all the cameras back to just one location. Might make sense depending on your specific layout and such depending on distances and the like.

 

[blahh]

thank you fenderman & Razer - i need a bit more time to put together a detailed response to Razer, but i will note that i met with a DW & exacq rep & sampled their systems & see they are comparable in features i'm looking for & system requirements (resource use) when running 4 cams but don't know what might happen at 30+ cams.

Razer - do you know / have experience with DW to compare the 2? i see that some places i can get DW licenses for a cheap as ~$60 ea. so i'm leaning to DW right now as they seem to provide the features i'm looking for - for less. as you allude to - with 2 buildings ~175' apart connected by cat6a, i'm open to the idea of a server placed there (i want a 24/7 capable monitor in my office) instead of a POE switch over a Gb network - hoping someone can provide experiential knowledge about that.

i'll have more to ask in a day or so.. i need to review the web clients to compare. i remember the DW web client did not compare to the installed client - but that isnt as important for 1 or 2 users compared to the 40 you mention

i appreciate the good info & will PM milkisbad to see what he may offer

 

[Razer]

I never looked in depth at DW, there was something we needed it to do and it would not so it never made it to my full in house testing/battle arena lol. I cannot remember what it was, but it was nothing huge but it was a deal breaker for our needs at the time. This was 4 years ago so they might work fine for us now I would have to reevaluate them to know better now.

The pricing sounds good on the DW option that is for sure. If you are only 175 feet apart in buildings the cable and switch route would seem to be a better solution over a separate server just from a cost comparison I would imagine. I have just one server in our main office for cameras, but a wireless shot out to a remote building we could not easily get cable to. Used Ubiquiti wireless equipment and it works fine, I have a UPS, Switch, remote power cycling device, and then cameras out there. Works perfectly and cost say $120 for the wireless stuff and was an easy solution too. If you can cable though that is the best obviously.

I use a few Intel NUCs to run camera monitors in my office, three NUCS running 7 55" TVs. Some are static rotations, but the best use is I have a 6 way view that will pull up cameras automaticly when motions is detected. Then we can keep an eye on our needed locations easily. This view is on 4 55" TVs and 8 tablets that sit on workers desks too. This works great, though I have to still add 7 more tablets....

 

[blahh]

whatever your deal breaker was i havent found it or it's not a breaker for us. i read some reviews that were a few years old & they rated exacq higher than DW then for sure - havent read a recent one that talks about features in particular, just that DW was better/more popular than before.

Razer - since the DW & exacq resource demands seem comparable, can i ask what MB/s u run on a server & some basic specs you didnt already mention (cpu/speed you did) - ram/speed, MB chipset, intel NICs? i'm thinking to get a i7~6700(plain or K - not a dumbed down cpu) + 16G ram & a MB with an intel integrated NIC & another intel PCIe NIC. from what i read, the PCIe NIC should connect to the cameras & integrated to the network. from what i've looked at i can get a bare bones, or hp/dell/whatever for less than $900.

you mention running clients & pushing the cpu on the server for live monitors. i'm gonna see if i can avoid that using rtsp streaming with vlc. i do that by using vlc plugin in local HTML with 3x. version of iron browser installed only for cam monitoring on client PCs. i need to test this to see how it affects server/recording when it increases network traffic. multicam screens would use the SD vid direct from cams with single cam on HD (browser or vlc app). DW is aggressive in reporting packet loss, so the logs should make the testing easier.

at some point i'll test using the network to let employees monitor entries for people ringing the bell - using audio to talk to strangers rather than requiring them to go to the doors. have some more reading about apps & html to do on that.

you talk about going back to 3MP from 4MP due to data volume. how much of an issue was storage / processing / bandwidth ? i picked 4MP because the goal was to get 60ppf as efficiently as possible in the needed area of coverage. from what i've calculated the 4MP did that well, & the hik 6mm looks to be an inexpensive cam to get there. more cams are needed @55 degrees of coverage (providing 60ppf to ~43') than a 2.8mm which do ~81 degrees (providing 60ppf to ~26') - the () show quite a difference in the depth of coverage. perhaps your needed depth is suited more to 3MP than ours - is that the case?

last ? is about 123security - after placing my order for a couple cams for testing it took them 9 days to ship it. when i emailed with one of the sales people before ordering she said nothing about any delay or lack of stock-on-hand. they did ship it 2-day USPS finally, but i was emailed a UPS link with a USPS # - lol (still in transit now). while waiting i emailed customer service & asked if they are shipping hikvision USA products with normal 3yr warranty & usa firmware - but no response to that. do you know what they stock & ship? are they a hassle when problems arise? any other advice about them? i did talk to bhphoto, also in NY, and they said they were an authorized hikvision dealer selling USA products. so for $12 more per cam (in bulk) they might be worth it if 123sec. product & service is lacking.

any & all comments are welcomed
thanks for your help

 

[blahh]

giving this a bump ->

Razer - hope you find some time for comment

would especially like to hear more about 123security from you or anyone, especially if you had to return anything or get something fixed/exchanged under manufacturer's warranty. before i consider spending $1000s with them i'd like to know if the slowness - incomplete responses - are part of your experiences.

i did talk to milkisbad & he doesnt carry a suitable 6mm cam