Hello from California - may need some guidance

YYZed

YYZed

Getting the hang of it
Jul 3, 2019
102
80
Watching over you from everywhere
Hello everyone!

I just wanted to say hi and to thank you all for your wealth of knowledge that I have been pouring over for the past couple days.

I'm in the beginning stage of upgrading the surveillance system that was installed by my wife's ex. It was about 50% planned out, and 50% what in the heck were you thinking? So, that leaves me with a slight amount of limitations that I think you all can help with since I have to to use some of the existing infrastructure.

For starters, it's currently an 8 camera setup, but I plan to immediately gut everything and expand it to 12 cameras to fill in some major coverage gaps. The ex, for as paranoid as he was, decided to exclude the driveway for whatever reason. It's a huge blind spot that has bugged me since day one. Anyways, the one thing he did half right was to use conduit on the exterior of the house to run the cabling. However, the current coax cabling will be removed and replaced with Cat 5e/6 so that it's much easier to deal with for power and future upgrades. The conduit is all in good shape, was sealed up well, and I'll use it all again. The slight bad news with this is that the bullet cameras were mounted to junction boxes that were not specific to the cameras being used. They are mounted to sealed metal/pvc boxes. He did a good job sealing all the edges and screw holes with what looks like silicone, so no problems there. The downside is that it is likely going to limit me to using only bullet cameras for those locations because of their size. I believe most turret cameras are about 6" in diameter, which is just too big.

So that you all have a better idea of what I'm working with, the house is 3,000sq ft and two stories. All of the cameras are located on the exterior of the first story, with the mounting heights ranging from 8.5ft to 10ft. Here's what a camera looks like mounted to its box -

IMG_4749lowres.jpg

The lids of those boxes are readily available to replace if I'm able to replicate what's currently there with the new cameras. I really do not want to pull out what infrastructure is already there because the cameras are in good enough locations to use again.

Andy at EmpireTech has come highly recommended and I have been looking over his products. Is there any major downside with going with the IPC-HFW2231T-ZS over the IPC-HFW5231E-Z? I want Starlight sensors and varifocal lenses for at least these 8 cameras that I'm replacing so that I have better control of the viewing angles (of which currently I have zero). Anything additional that I add to the system will be from the ground up and I will be able to make the decision of which camera and mounting solution works best for those locations. It's just these 8 with my current set of limitations that is taking some thinking power.

I plan to go with the NVR5216-16P-4KS2E and an 8-10tb drive unless you all have any other recommendations. I could go also with a 24 or 32 channel system just in case I need to expand beyond 16.

Thanks!
 
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Christopher Williams said:
..They are mounted to sealed metal/pvc boxes. He did a good job sealing all the edges and screw holes with what looks like silicone, so no problems there. The downside is that it is likely going to limit me to using only bullet cameras for those locations because of their size. I believe most turret cameras are about 6" in diameter, which is just too big.
..
Click to expand...

Hi @Christopher Williams

You can replace the junction boxes if you like, or even add another box to the end of one if there is a good conduit access hole in one.

With a little thought and work you should be able to setup what ever cameras you like.

Also do look at some of the newer 4mp starlight+ models as iirc some of those bases are smaller than the starlight models many of have been using for situations where you want to have a smaller base over the original 2 gang outdoor junction box.
 
mat200 said:
Hi @Christopher Williams

You can replace the junction boxes if you like, or even add another box to the end of one if there is a good conduit access hole in one.

With a little thought and work you should be able to setup what ever cameras you like.

Also do look at some of the newer 4mp starlight+ models as iirc some of those bases are smaller than the starlight models many of have been using for situations where you want to have a smaller base over the original 2 gang outdoor junction box.
Click to expand...

Changing the junction boxes is going to be the last resort at this point, both for cost and ease of installation. They're screwed in, pipe glued, and siliconed at each box. It will be a mess to clean up and likely more hassle than it's worth. I don't mind drilling a few holes in the lid for the new cameras. 4Mp starlight with varifocal is also likely out of the price range unless there is something I'm not seeing for max $200. I appreciate your insight!
 
Last edited:
looney2ns said:
Welcome
On a real computer, not a phone, Study this>> Wiki
Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE | IP Cam Talk
Review-dahua-ipc-hdw2231rp-zs-starlight-camera-varifocal
Click to expand...

Thank you! I've also looked at wildcat_1's review in regards to the varifocal IPC-B5442-ZE 4Mp Starlight+ . It was good enough to where it may have persuaded me to reconsider a slightly higher resolution. I also know all too well that higher pixel count does not equal higher quality in every scenario - especially low light. I've worked as a professional photographer for the past 16 years and I've seen first hand the evolution of image sensors in the many top of the line DSLR cameras that I've used. It took over a decade to finally get a 35mm (full frame) sensor to behave the way it does now, which is nothing short of spectacular for my needs. Those 40Mp sensors on the newest crop of 35mm DSLR's are AMAZING during the day, but there is a noticeable difference when you need to push the ISO higher in comparison to their 20Mp brothers from the same company. It's all about where you can make the tradeoff and what suits your needs.

What's the consensus around here about mixing up different resolutions of cameras? Does that cause any problems on the recording end? There are areas around my property that may need better low light and others that would benefit from a sharper daylight image.
 
Christopher Williams said:
Thank you! I've also looked at wildcat_1's review in regards to the varifocal IPC-B5442-ZE 4Mp Starlight+ . It was good enough to where it may have persuaded me to reconsider a slightly higher resolution. I also know all too well that higher pixel count does not equal higher quality in every scenario - especially low light. I've worked as a professional photographer for the past 16 years and I've seen first hand the evolution of image sensors in the many top of the line DSLR cameras that I've used. It took over a decade to finally get a 35mm (full frame) sensor to behave the way it does now, which is nothing short of spectacular for my needs. Those 40Mp sensors on the newest crop of 35mm DSLR's are AMAZING during the day, but there is a noticeable difference when you need to push the ISO higher in comparison to their 20Mp brothers from the same company. It's all about where you can make the tradeoff and what suits your needs.

What's the consensus around here about mixing up different resolutions of cameras? Does that cause any problems on the recording end? There are areas around my property that may need better low light and others that would benefit from a sharper daylight image.
Click to expand...

If you have plenty of Ambient light at night, then the higher mp's cams can work. But you take a hit on storage space as well as the horsepower required to process. No issue's mixing different resolutions.
 
looney2ns said:
If you have plenty of Ambient light at night, then the higher mp's cams can work. But you take a hit on storage space as well as the horsepower required to process. No issue's mixing different resolutions.
Click to expand...

Storage space is definitely one of the concerns. Good to know about different resolutions because that makes research about a thousand times easier knowing there aren't any issues. I know that's a complete newbie question, but diving head first into an upgraded system in comparison to the junk that is currently installed brings all of that to mind. The main thing with this system is that it needs to work well without needing another major overall within a few years. There was a recent 1:45am break-in in our otherwise very quiet neighborhood, and it pushed this project to the top of our list. We came home from a recent vacation to find a note on our door from the neighbor informing us that it had happened just a few days prior and it really rattled our nerves. Obviously cameras are only a deterrent and will record what is taking place, and we certainly have other defensive measures should something occur when we're home, but with the major technology jump with alert areas, facial recognition, etc, it's a good time to have a better sense of security around our property.
 
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:welcome:

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Use a monitored alarm system for security, Not a Camera system. On the alarm system use door sensors, window break sensor, in side motion detectors. Have multiple sirens. I have four 120DB sirens two inside and two outside (front back) . Yes there are two inside, If you can stay in the house with those going off you are plain stupid. I built and installed my system more than 10 years ago, I have never had a police false alarm. I do not use the motion detectors most of the time as I have 3 dogs.

I have cameras mounted inside and out. I want to identify the bad guys, and I want to know what happened.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the cliff notes and other items in the wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) | IP Cam Talk in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) if you need good low light cameras.
2) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
3) Do not use wifi cameras.
4) Do not use cloud storage
5) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
6) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
8) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk)
9) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
10) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
11) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
12) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
13) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)

Cameras to look at
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS
IPC-HDW5231-ZE
IPC-T5442TM-AS
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I
DS-2CD2325FWD-I

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess
 
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SouthernYankee said:
:welcome:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Use a monitored alarm system for security, Not a Camera system. On the alarm system use door sensors, window break sensor, in side motion detectors. Have multiple sirens. I have four 120DB sirens two inside and two outside (front back) . Yes there are two inside, If you can stay in the house with those going off you are plain stupid. I built and installed my system more than 10 years ago, I have never had a police false alarm. I do not use the motion detectors most of the time as I have 3 dogs.

I have cameras mounted inside and out. I want to identify the bad guys, and I want to know what happened.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the cliff notes and other items in the wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) | IP Cam Talk in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) if you need good low light cameras.
2) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
3) Do not use wifi cameras.
4) Do not use cloud storage
5) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
6) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
8) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk)
9) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
10) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
11) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
12) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
13) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)

Cameras to look at
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS
IPC-HDW5231-ZE
IPC-T5442TM-AS
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I
DS-2CD2325FWD-I

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess
Click to expand...

7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))

Since I'm new around here, you might take a minute to amend your welcome note to include EmpireTech as being a "safe" outlet to purchase from at Aliexpress and Amazon. I have read countless threads with support of Andy's shop. Unless, of course, you don't recommend him for some reason.
 
That is true. That is why is said s(not all, but most). Also see the camera list that have his cameras there.
 
SouthernYankee said:
That is true. That is why is said s(not all, but most). Also see the camera list that have his cameras there.
Click to expand...

Understood. I guess maybe so there isn't any conflicting information for someone who really hasn't started to research this stuff yet? I really appreciate the list you put together and you'll be happy to know that it had all been researched before my first post :)
 
After some careful studying of this site and my current system, I have a huge amount of changes coming to my current infrastructure. Some camera locations will be moved or eliminated altogether because they are poorly placed for identification purposes or are severely compromised be exterior lighting that's in their current FOV that needs to be on. I'm going to start ordering some test equipment to see what works best for my current needs before the bigger purchases start happening.
 
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