Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

mat200

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And the reviewer is still getting his "test for clarity of image" wrong.. thankfully he starting to to talk FOV finally, but again is missing the boat on a proper comparison.

Truth of the matter is the tighter FOV = longer ID distance...

If you need to see details further away get a camera with a tighter FOV / stronger lens.

Comparing a 8MP with a Lens: 124° Wide Angle View with a 2.8MM lens vs a 8MP with a Lens f=4.0mm - the 4mm lens camera should always do better with details at a distance in good lighting conditions.

It is a completely misleading to suggest a 2.8mm lens camera has any chance to compete vs a 4mm at 50 feet away.. even at 25 feet away.

1608171275653.png

The Reolink RLC-810A image capture is at 50 feet according to the reviewer, and the Reolink camera specs are 8MP with a 4mm lens. Which has a narrower FOV than the 2.8mm 8MP Annke C800 ( a Hikvision OEM camera ) he is comparing it to.

Once again, this is a deceptive review when claiming this is a "clarity review" - when really it is more a question of pixels on target.
 
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mat200

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Well good news, he actually points out the problem we have all been pointing out with the poor low light performance of the Reolink especially with moving objects in low light conditions

"Unfortunately I can't look past the fact that there was noticeable ghosting in the Reolink 810 during movement which means that I have to narrowly give this category to the Annke C800 for the 4K cameras ... "

lol, seriously the Reolink video is absolutely useless with the moving subject. It is only when he stops and pauses for a snap shot that it gets a worthy shot of him. And yet, he only evaluates this as a narrow win for the Annke C800.

1608174576430.png

Video starts here:
 

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mat200

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FYI - including this from another thread here to serve as a reference.

Original Thread:


Post:

That isn't an answer to my question. Someone said "Reolink doesn't work with Blue Iris". I asked in what sense that was true, because I was looking through a Reolink camera feed on my Blue Iris dashboard. Reolink cameras appear to work with Blue Iris. So I don't understand if the original poster was using an old version of Blue Iris or what, because their statement appears to be ob
..
Hi @arkiel

Members have reported numerous issues with Reolink ...

Since you like to have others help you out on this... a quick search for Reolink in the forum shows me a few I recall reading and posting about:


In this thread:

A few examples I have posted w/regards to image capture quality:
and

In thread:
Fenderman posts a list of issues

In a post in a long Reolink thread fenderman posted:
There are no positive to reolink. Hikvsion makes crappy cameras as well, you need to purchase the correct models. If you would, you would know how shitty reolink really is. Reolink does not make a single camera that is good in low light. Their firmware is utter shit not allowing for iframe interval adjustments making them incompatible with blue iris and other pc based vms.
I hope you are not using reolinks p2p or port forwarding their mobile app. If you have you likely have already been hacked. Most users here are not using any shitty apps by manufactures but rather a pc based vms.
I dont know why you think the hikvision app was banned. That is simply a false statement. If you want a pretty app buy a ring camera and suffer the consequences. Since you are using reolink you have already evidence that you prefer looks and price over function.
Dont forget reolink spammed this forum, lied about it, lied to their end users about the reason why they dont have iframe interval adjustments and they purposely have their cameras increase exposure to 1/12 at night to falsely suggest a clear night image but the result is a blur when the subject is moving.
I cover Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"
 

mat200

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Saw some good posts by @wittaj and @sebastiantombs with regards to Reolink and Blue Iris compatibilty:


Probably getting paid by them...

The issue with not being able to adjust the i-frame is that many people have come here posting their videos from said cameras and asking for help because the entire motion trigger misses the actual event.
Look in the Wiki, in the blue bar at the top of the page. You'll find out what you don't know in there. iframe, frame rate and bit rate are all keys to proper camera operation and dependable motion detection especially under low light conditions. Reolink does not allow you to control those in any significant manner to make them dependable and reliable.
 

mat200

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Cross post.. felt this was an appropriate analysis:

Gut feeling i suppose. And he says it out right in some of his videos. So if the video he says it in and it proves to be wrong then he would be lieing through his teeth
Hi @chyatt21

Q: Can you explain to us how you know his reviews are honest?
A: .. he says it out right in some of his videos. So if the video he says it in and it proves to be wrong then he would be lying through his teeth

Yes.. absolutely a valid conclusion: he would be lying through his teeth

Or.. just not fully knowledgeable on the topic - in which case you should also reject his conclusions and "honest review" statements...
 

austwhite

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Looks like Reolink paid him some more:

To be fair, he is mostly comparing price point of various cameras for the quality more than technical features.
No one can deny the Reolink cameras are cheap cameras and they wont stand up to equivalent specced cameras that are a higher price.
The RLC-810A he recommends is a cheaper camera than even the Annke C800 that he compared it to.
That said, I wouldn't ever call any cheap camera's amazing.

I am no Reolink shill, but I have struggled to find cameras at the same price that do a job any better than Reolink. More expensive ones definitely do though.
I would say the Reolink are decent when comparing cameras at the same price point, not to say they are amazingly better than anything else as there are definitely better cameras around, but they do come at a higher price.
Obviously this is just my opinion and only based on using a few RLC-520's and not any other Reolink cameras. Maybe I have been really lucky, but I have not had issue with missing motion events or major ghosting issues in Blue Iris. That said, I am looking at them from the point of how cheap they are too and not comparing them to cameras which are double the price. I knew they were cheap cameras and not to expect miracles.
 
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wittaj

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I have a few cameras that are cheaper than Reo's that allow me to set gain and i-frame rates and provide a much better image than my neighbors Reo's...now the sensor is tiny so it does suffer from lack of details and some other things (like I cannot use ONVIF trigger for it with BI because it triggers and then doesn't stop), but I don't get the ghost like that picture above on Post #22. It is also an overview camera, so I am not as concerned about the video quality but wanted to be able to at least make out was that a 2-door or 4-door vehicle and what color was the clothing of the person walking by at 2am.

Like everything, we each have a subjective view on what is good video. If someone says their Reo's provide great video at night, let's see their video post with motion at night and prove to us that they perform at night. Otherwise, the texting debate continues with people defending their reo's and people knocking the reos (or whatever consumer grade camera someone is saying provides a great image). We have dozens, if not hundreds, of video clips of cameras in action, but not many of the Reo's or other consumer cameras.

When we had a thief come thru here at 3am and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system back here but mine - the arlo and nest and swann and reos and rings and who knows what else people have back here sure looks nice on a still image and gives a great wide angle view, but you cannot identify anyone at night, so at night with motion they all found their system is worthless.

Prior to this event, my neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed 4 arlos to see his entire property. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away - complete blur and ghosting. All that lets him know is someone got in his car. Meanwhile, the perp didn't come to my house but walked past on the sidewalk at 80 feet from my house and my varifocal zoomed in to a point at the sidewalk was the money shot for the police.
 

austwhite

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Indeed @wittaj

I would absolutely like to see good comparison videos in low light conditions, even real image captures of events.
Would be good to see a low light motion comparison. To be honest, this is the only forum I have seen such huge negativity toward Reolink.
Rob (The HookUp) is not the only YouTube video that praises the Reolink cameras. To be honest I would say 95% of reviews I have seen, both on YouTube and written, have been positive for the price point.
 

wittaj

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Does anyone agree that the snapshot on post #22 above that @mat200 snapped from Rob's video is an example of quality? That person is almost gone from the frame completely. Could the police do anything with that image?
 
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austwhite

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Does anyone agree that the snapshot on post #22 above that @mat200 snapped from Rob's video is an example of quality? That person is almost gone from the frame completely. Could the police do anything with that image?
Agree Robs video is not the best, just making the point his is not the only one, maybe not fair to single his channel out, if these issues are as bad as this people here think.
I have had occasional issues with ghosting on RLC-520's but it is occasional, not regular and I have had that issue on a Dahua IPC-HDW4631C-A that I was testing as well when on IR.
Comparing those as they are about the same price point.

Maybe I am playing devils advocate, but my experience has not been the complete disaster some claim them to be.
 

fenderman

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Would be good to see a low light motion comparison. To be honest, this is the only forum I have seen such huge negativity toward Reolink.
Rob (The HookUp) is not the only YouTube video that praises the Reolink cameras. To be honest I would say 95% of reviews I have seen, both on YouTube and written, have been positive for the price point.
For two reasons, they are unsophisticated reviewers and dont understand sensors and optics and more importantly, there is a high probability that they are being paid - this varies by reviewer. For example, I personally busted a reolink employee pretending to be a customer on THIS forum praising the product. There are several methods I uses to determine who the poster works for, in this case however, he made it really easy. The FOOL used a reolink.com email address to sign up on the forum. Reolink cameras are NOT compatible with blue iris. Its not just the ghosting. See the help file and search for key frames, it is essential to be able to set keyframes, particularly if you using the substream function. Dont compare a chinese hacked dahua to reolink. You must compare an international model that is firmware updatable. The sensors used in the reolinks are crap in low light. That is a fact you cannot get away from.
 

wittaj

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I recognize that even the best cameras can still be configured incorrectly to have the same issues or the wrong camera was picked for the location, and even if configured correctly still may not provide useful video or picture if the person is heavily masked or always moving and not looking at the camera, but if someone is going to tout and recommend a camera, then you would hope they have configured it under ideal conditions to make it look like it is good.
 

austwhite

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I recognize that even the best cameras can still be configured incorrectly to have the same issues or the wrong camera was picked for the location, and even if configured correctly still may not provide useful video or picture if the person is heavily masked or always moving and not looking at the camera, but if someone is going to tout and recommend a camera, then you would hope they have configured it under ideal scenarios to make it look like it is good.
You make a good point there. The lack of configuration options is more the issue with Reolink than the quality of the camera's themself. If we could have more granular configuration options, they could likely be configured to be amazing. So it really comes down to firmware.........
My personal experience may be the exception than the rule with the Reolinks. I only have what I have seen myself to go on I guess. It may be because in my location it is not totally dark where the camera's are. There is a very small amount of ambient light, and that may be the difference.
In that case, I would likely say don't use the Reolinks in total darkness, but if you have a lit area they are not so bad.

:)
 

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You make a good point there. The lack of configuration options is more the issue with Reolink than the quality of the camera's themself. If we could have more granular configuration options, they could likely be configured to be amazing. So it really comes down to firmware.........
My personal experience may be the exception than the rule with the Reolinks. I only have what I have seen myself to go on I guess.
The firmware is only part of the problem. Reolink uses shitty sensors. Dahua/hik do as well on their low end cameras. However they offer quality cameras with GREAT sensors. Reolink simply does not. Any review by an end user for reolink should be considered fraudulent until proven otherwise.
 

austwhite

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The firmware is only part of the problem. Reolink uses shitty sensors. Dahua/hik do as well on their low end cameras. However they offer quality cameras with GREAT sensors. Reolink simply does not. Any review by an end user for reolink should be considered fraudulent until proven otherwise.
I think that is the key. On their low end cameras.
Let's be honest, Reolink's price point is aimed at low end. A 4K camera at under $100 US is definitely not high end :)
Maybe that is where I look at them. I look at them as "cheap" cameras and don't expect high end performance at that price point.
I will note Rob's video also is claiming to be reviewing "budget" cameras. I dont think he has ever claimed they are high end, nor compared them to cameras at a completely different price point He didn't make it clear in the title, but he has it in the description.
"In this video I show you why I think the new Reolink RLC-810A is the best value in 4K PoE security cameras on the market, and why the RLC-410-5MP is still the champion of the budget cameras. "
I think he may need to make that clearer in the main titles. That way it won't be misread.

Edit: I do find the Reolinks better than Ring though, not that I class Ring has good quality, but Reolink are hell cheaper than Ring. :)
 
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fenderman

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I think that is the key. On their low end cameras.
Let's be honest, Reolink's price point is aimed at low end. A 4K camera at under $100 US is definitely not high end :)
Maybe that is where I look at them. I look at them as "cheap" cameras and don't expect high end performance at that price point.
I will note Rob's video also is claiming to be reviewing "budget" cameras. I dont think he has ever claimed they are high end, nor compared them to cameras at a completely different price point He didn't make it clear in the title, but he has it in the description.
"In this video I show you why I think the new Reolink RLC-810A is the best value in 4K PoE security cameras on the market, and why the RLC-410-5MP is still the champion of the budget cameras. "
I think he may need to make that clearer in the main titles. That way it won't be misread.

Edit: I do find the Reolinks better than Ring though, not that I class Ring has good quality, but Reolink are hell cheaper than Ring. :)
What good is a camera that produces a blurry image. Its has no value. You are better off with a 1 quality camera vs 2 junk reolinks. You can buy a budget 2mp camera for 100 bux that will give you much better image quality than the reolink in low light, usually the time you need the footage. His review should conclude that you should not be purchasing any of that crap unless you intend to use them with significant amounts of light. Of course it doesnt.
 

mat200

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Agree Robs video is not the best, just making the point his is not the only one, maybe not fair to single his channel out, if these issues are as bad as this people here think.
I have had occasional issues with ghosting on RLC-520's but it is occasional, not regular and I have had that issue on a Dahua IPC-HDW4631C-A that I was testing as well when on IR.
Comparing those as they are about the same price point.

Maybe I am playing devils advocate, but my experience has not been the complete disaster some claim them to be.
Hi @austwhite

1) ".. Robs video is not the best, just making the point his is not the only one, maybe not fair to single his channel out," ( The Hookup )

Actually it is absolutely fair to single out his channel when it is used as a primary reference in a number of forums to promote Reolink.
( we've seen numerous attempts to use it here, and at first on a quick inspection I thought his review would be a good one based on the title at youtube - on closer inspection it unfortunately is very misleading )

Also, the way Rob presents his reviews clearly is problematic for those new to this subject matter, as he appears to be a subject matter expert and that clearly is not the case - either that or he is purposefully deceptive.

2) Comparing cameras.. Dahua IPC-HDW4631C-A vs Reolink.

iirc the IPC-HDW4631C-A is a Chinese market camera, and thus would not really be a valid comparison for many in at least the USA.
 

mat200

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LIfeHackster also does a number of reviews of typically consumer cloud cameras, he also has done a number of IP PoE cameras - so I'm adding a few image captures from him


Reolink 5MP - RLC-510A camera as reviewed recently by LifeHackster:

1612646702898.png

Here is a not unusual issue many cameras have in terms of IR is too focus'ed in one hot zone:

1612646160960.png

1612646278083.png

Reolink 8MP RLC-810A as reviewed ..
once again the ghosting is significant on some Reolinks ( Ghost also happens on other cameras, typically more afford components = more ghosting issues )

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1612646430935.png

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The 12MP RLC-1220A as reviewed

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In general, Reolinks do very poorly for moving suspects in low light conditions

ref:
 
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