Day/Night Mode?

[Roman]

All-

I initiated another thread a few months ago about a project that I was helping out on in a billiard / bar establishment (Camera Recommendation for POS stations?) and we started installing the cams yesterday. I noticed when installing the first cam it was in night mode due to the lack of lighting in the building (and this was during the day!). So I logged into the cam and switched it to Day mode and the picture turned to color and all was good.

My question is this, I assume I will need to put the cams on a schedule to stay in day mode while the establishment is open for business. And then the schedule will kick in and turn to night mode after they close for the evening and all the lights are turned out? Would this be the best route to take?

If so, do I accomplish this by logging into each cam or can this be configured via the NVR (all Hik turrets and NVR btw).

Any other suggestions / assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks....

 

[zero-degrees]

All-

I initiated another thread a few months ago about a project that I was helping out on in a billiard / bar establishment (Camera Recommendation for POS stations?) and we started installing the cams yesterday. I noticed when installing the first cam it was in night mode due to the lack of lighting in the building (and this was during the day!). So I logged into the cam and switched it to Day mode and the picture turned to color and all was good.

My question is this, I assume I will need to put the cams on a schedule to stay in day mode while the establishment is open for business. And then the schedule will kick in and turn to night mode after they close for the evening and all the lights are turned out? Would this be the best route to take?

If so, do I accomplish this by logging into each cam or can this be configured via the NVR (all Hik turrets and NVR btw).

Any other suggestions / assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks....

If you have a NVR with POE and the cameras connected to it you will need to enable "Virtual Host". Then you make these settings changes via each of the cameras as I don't believe you can do this via the NVR.

To access the individual cameras you will want to navigate to the NVR and POE port - for example 192.168.1.100 is your NVR address. So Camera 1/Port one would be accessed via 192.168.1.100:65001 followed by camera 2/port 2 192.168.1.100:65002 see where I am going here 192.168.1.100:6500X is the port/camera number on the back of the NVR.

Obviously if you have all the cameras going into a switch, ignore the above regarding Virtual Host and just access each camera directly.

At any rate log into the camera and goto "Image" settings.
Next you will see a "Switch Day and Night Setting" and it is currently most likely set to "Auto-Switch"
Change that to "Scheduled Switch"
You then will have two new drop down boxes to set Start and End times for a Common Time/Day Time/Night Time.
You will also have the opportunity to customize all the image settings for each mode at this time as well if you want/need to (Brightness, Contract, Saturation, WDR, ect)

Hope this helps!

Also when you are done, if you can post a few example pics of the install maybe and some images from each camera that would be great. This will help the community see first had the image quality of the model of camera you have and let someone possibly decide to buy or decide to stay away from that specific camera. I always say we need more "real world examples" here as only a few users really contribute examples. Much appreciated if you do!

 

[zero-degrees]

Here is a reference from the actual camera manual if you need it

Figure 6-26 Day/Night Switch

Day, night, auto, schedule, and triggered by alarm input are selectable for day/night
switch.

Day: the camera stays at day mode.

Night: the camera stays at night mode.

Auto: the camera switches between the day mode and the night mode according to the
illumination automatically. The sensitivity ranges from 0~7, the higher the value is,
the easier the mode switches. The filtering time refers to the interval time between the
day/night switch. You can set it from 5s to 120s.

Schedule: Set the start time and the end time to define the duration for day/night
mode.

Triggered by alarm input: The switch is triggered by alarm input, and you can set
the triggered mode to day or night.

Smart IR gives user an option to turn ON / OFF the IR LED.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Change the day/night switch sensitivity settings in the camera so that it has to be much darker for it to switch to night mode.

 

[Roman]

If you have a NVR with POE and the cameras connected to it you will need to enable "Virtual Host". Then you make these settings changes via each of the cameras as I don't believe you can do this via the NVR.

To access the individual cameras you will want to navigate to the NVR and POE port - for example 192.168.1.100 is your NVR address. So Camera 1/Port one would be accessed via 192.168.1.100:65001 followed by camera 2/port 2 192.168.1.100:65002 see where I am going here 192.168.1.100:6500X is the port/camera number on the back of the NVR.

Obviously if you have all the cameras going into a switch, ignore the above regarding Virtual Host and just access each camera directly.

Yeah we have a 32 CH NVR with 16 ports POE built-in and the rest need to be hooked up with another 8 port POE switch. I guess I will only be able to connect to 16 of those cams via the VH and then the rest I will need to connect directly to the cam since they are on the 8 port switch?

I will mess around with schedule settings either today or tomorrow. I may also follow Kawboy's advice and see if I can "adjust" sensitivity so it takes it longer to switch to night mode.

 

[zero-degrees]

Change the day/night switch sensitivity settings in the camera so that it has to be much darker for it to switch to night mode.

This is tough in a bar/dark establishment setting. Because these establishments are always DARK it normally requires you to take it to such a high setting (6 or 7) which in turn sometimes will cause the camera to not even switch when the lights are shut off for the night because there is still just enough ambient light.

Just speaking from experience, but normally in these settings using the schedule mode works best and generates a lot less switching at undesired times.

 

[zero-degrees]

Yeah we have a 32 CH NVR with 16 ports POE built-in and the rest need to be hooked up with another 8 port POE switch. I guess I will only be able to connect to 16 of those cams via the VH and then the rest I will need to connect directly to the cam since they are on the 8 port switch?

I will mess around with schedule settings either today or tomorrow. I may also follow Kawboy's advice and see if I can "adjust" sensitivity so it takes it longer to switch to night mode.

Correct, the cameras that are connected to the NVR use the Virtual Host ability to hit each camera individually. For the cameras that are connected to the switch just hit them directly via there IP.

See my note above about sensitivity in a location like yours. Not saying it won't work, but speaking from experience it might not be worth the trouble as each camera may require a different sensitivity setting based on the ambient light around that individual camera. Your open/close hours or low light times rarely change/adjust, so using the schedule mode will most likely save you time which in turn is money.

See what best fits your needs, but take the above personal advice/experience from personally operating 16 cameras in a bar/tap room and installing 100's of others in similar areas/situations.

*EDIT/Disclaimer: Wasn't trying to sound like an ass Kawboy! Your advice is surely valid and will work, just not sure about this particular situation based on my own struggles in the past with similar setups.

 

[Kawboy12R]

No troubles zero. No solution is guaranteed to work all the time in every situation. Even the struggle between wanting color and needing the detail from IR assistance is sometimes a preference that can change situation to situation. If the cameras have a conflict between adjustment limitations and their ability to deliver in color then that makes the choice even harder. What happens when the power goes out or a breaker pops in the evening and folks are still in there? If the cams are on a UPS then if they're on auto switch at least they'll be able to see better than almost blind in color mode under emergency lighting unless there's a contingency for that?

 

[zero-degrees]

No troubles zero. No solution is guaranteed to work all the time in every situation. Even the struggle between wanting color and needing the detail from IR assistance is sometimes a preference that can change situation to situation. If the cameras have a conflict between adjustment limitations and their ability to deliver in color then that makes the choice even harder. What happens when the power goes out or a breaker pops in the evening and folks are still in there? If the cams are on a UPS then if they're on auto switch at least they'll be able to see better than almost blind in color mode under emergency lighting unless there's a contingency for that?

Valid Points. I can say for a business though I'm sure you would be in Day mode with a power failure. Our Local Codes require crazy safety lighting and emergency exit lighting. We get "Surprise" inspections by our state and local fire marshals a few times a year and in a few cases they come back on our closed day after hours to test power shut down and lighting conditions. It's actually funny because when our security lights and exit lights kick on you have 10x more lighting then a normal evening. Also funny note for our state/county - when the fire department wants to do a "random" inspection they also get to provide you with a invoice/bill for said inspection...

At least once a year you'll see the fire deparment park several trucks up the street and a dozen fire fighters just spend the next few hours walking down the street hitting every business for a few blocks. Some say its for "Safety" and appreciate it, others like us feel its just a revenue generator for the state/department. Especially sucks for us since a brewery is already regulated by the Federal Government (who can inspect at any time), The State Government (Homeland security) because of the amount of fuel we use and the possibility for explosion due to grain dust, the state and local fire marshal because again grain dust/blast proof room requirements as well as public occupancy limitations, and then the local health department because of our basic kitchen. Basically we have any and every government agency up our ass at some point throughout the year... But I digress, point of post was regarding security lighting

 

[Kawboy12R]

Gotcha. "Here" we have less light at work when the power goes out and nobody has offered to bill us to randomly test it. Thankfully. I don't remember the last time I was in a bar and the power went out. I just know that I'd REALLY want my cams seeing well if it happened.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Btw, Homeland Security for a grain dust explosion? Seriously? I wonder how many farms they go out and check?

 

[zero-degrees]

Btw, Homeland Security for a grain dust explosion? Seriously? I wonder how many farms they go out and check?

It's weird - I don't fully understand it. During our build out phase years ago we had to stop construction because of a permit issue (State approved, county didn't want to accept) related to fire surpression. We had to attend a hearing with the State Fire Marshal, State Homeland Security, Local Fire Marshal, Local Code Enforcement/Permitting. Bottom line it turned into a pissing match between the state guys and the local guys while our family and lawyer sat back and just watched in amazement. The state guys basically were telling the local guys to f* off, that anything they said trumped what the local guys said - it was truely a my D* is bigger than yours type argument and for NO reason we got stuck in the middle.

In the end it all worked out and only put us back a week or two, but still... Its more the combination of fuel (natural gas) that comes into the building for the boiler to generate the steam (MASSIVE amount of pressure/force stored) for the brewing systems, mixed with grain dust which can ignite (see coffee creamer fire) on youtube. It's mainly because of all the different parts combined under one roof that they get a hand in it as well. If one of these systems we're to have a catostrophic failure it would be a seriously nasty chain reaction

 

[nayr]

where I grew up in Kansas a grain elevator exploded a good 30 some miles away and it shook our house enough I wondered wtf just happned in my parents basement.

iirc seismometers in the next state over registered the explosion.. turned that mile long concrete silo into a pile of broken rubble and killed a few employees on site.

 

[Roman]

One other thing I forgot to ask input on is FPS setting...I am doing some calculations and coming up with ~10TB of storage is needed for 3MP cams at 10FPS (7 days / 24 hrs a day). Can I cut down the FPS to 5 or so in order to reduce capacity a little without comprising video recording? And that is for 3MP cams...we have 20 (4MP) cams on this install.....the NVR will hold up to 4 SATA drives.

 

[nayr]

FPS has little to do with storage requirements; that all comes down to bitrates.. but they do kinda share the same ground as higher FPS usually allows higher bitrate.. but 10fps at 6Mbps and 30fps at 6Mbps both take up the same amount of bandwidth and storage..

now increasing FPS without a corresponding increase in bitrate can result in reduced quality as the compression will be higher.. its not linear so many times changing framerate results in no noticeable difference in quality @ the same bitrate.. not until you try to push too many FPS at far too low of a bitrate that you start to see the difference

 

[zero-degrees]

What are your total camera counts? Bitrate is where the storage capacity is at, not so much FPS, but FPS plays a small roll in that. Do NOT go below 10 FPS, I would honestly try and target 15-20 FPS if possible, its a bar, things can happen quickly and you don't want to miss anything.

Here are two videos I have referenced several times in threads discussing FPS

Skip to 1:15 in this one to see the side by side comparison

 

[Roman]

Thanks for your help Nayr and Zero....total cam count is 20. I was thinking about dropping down to 2MP (1920x1080) to save a little on capacity....I assume this would allow me keep FPS up around 15-20 as you indicated is best for the environment?

The NVR states 256MB Bandwidth and it's a 32 CH....so not sure if I am interpreting this correctly or not.

 

[Roman]

To access the individual cameras you will want to navigate to the NVR and POE port - for example 192.168.1.100 is your NVR address. So Camera 1/Port one would be accessed via 192.168.1.100:65001 followed by camera 2/port 2 192.168.1.100:65002 see where I am going here 192.168.1.100:6500X is the port/camera number on the back of the NVR.

Obviously if you have all the cameras going into a switch, ignore the above regarding Virtual Host and just access each camera directly.

zero (or anyone else for that matter) - I have a 32 CH NVR with 16 ports filled up on the NVR unit plus a few more via a connected POE switch. All cams are working as designed...my only question is this: how do you enable a setting in "Live View" to see more than the default 16 cams that are connected to the NVR or at least go to the "next page" so that you can see the cams that are connected to the switch? The only setting I see in the menu says 4x4 which shows all 16 cams but just those that are actually connected to the NVR...hope that makes sense?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

 

[zero-degrees]

Maybe I'm a little confused but if you have all cameras detected and working you should be able to switch between screens using the left/right arrow on the tool bar. If you have the live view set on 1/4/9/16 and you have more cameras then any of those views allow you should have the ability to click the left/right arrow on the toolbar to take you to the next cam/set of cams that are live/active.

 

[Roman]

Maybe I'm a little confused but if you have all cameras detected and working you should be able to switch between screens using the left/right arrow on the tool bar. If you have the live view set on 1/4/9/16 and you have more cameras then any of those views allow you should have the ability to click the left/right arrow on the toolbar to take you to the next cam/set of cams that are live/active.

I mispoke....the problem I am having is it is not letting me add anymore cameras even though I have a separate POE switch hooked up. Maybe I have it hooked up incorrectly?

I have 16 POE's on the NVR...so the last POE port on the NVR (Port 16) I have a patch cable going from that to the 8 port POE switch and the rest of the cams plugged into the POE switch? Is that correct or should I fill all 16 POE ports on the NVR with cams and then just connect my 8 port POE switch to the rest of the network via a patch cable ran to from a port on the POE switch to router, etc?

Since it did not add anymore cams I tried to manually add the cam and it gives me an error message saying no more IP cams allowed....but that is not correct because this is a 32 CH NVR.....

Please help!