Dahua (Amcrest) IVS triggers to BI

ipc824

Young grasshopper
Joined
Aug 16, 2022
Messages
47
Reaction score
19
Location
Nowheresville
New member, so sorry in advance.

I have read several posts on here with little luck. I bought 2 Dahua's from Andy, and an Amcrest (also Dahua). I can't get any IVS events to integrate into BI. I see them logged in the camera itself, but it never triggers in BI.

I occasionally get a Event: subscription 00000190 error code on BI for this camera, but it's not in sync with every event log in camera.

Things I have done:
1. Got "get ONVIF trigger events" checked. (also tried it unchecked)
2. Disabled "motion sensor" on Triggers page of the Camera in BI
3. Checked "Camera's digital input or motion alarm"
4. Added push alert to phone under "Immediate actions"
5. Checked "When triggered" JPEG in Record tab on BI

Things I haven't done:
1. Tried IVS with Andy's cameras. (I haven't been able to get Config tool to successfully changing IP address and I need this given my modem's stubbornness about the X in 192.168.x.108.)
2. Any of the advised setup from Amcrest. I just figured it's an attempt to get my IP cam online.
3. NO SIM cards in the cameras.
4. Gotten the NIC card to take

And I'm hoping to achieve IVS because a few on this forum have preferred it to BI motion sensor. I admit I don't understand many things about BI. But I have gotten a zillion false alarms using default motion sensor. Some people have sworn by the motion sensor but that was older versions of BI and older posts on this forum. In addition Deepstack has been somewhat a disappointment for accurate motion events.

I was also hoping that Andy's cameras would improve detection distance. I have yet to have a camera consistently snag me walking in my backyard 30ft>x>20ft out. So my day off has been a bit of a bummer whether it be Reolink, Deepstack, BI motion sensor, Andy's Cameras, Amcrest. I was kinda hoping IVS would improve detection.

FYI: Running a Zen 3 processor - plenty of headroom. I could also throw a discrete GPU in there. Using a managed switch.


I would be grateful for any advice.

Thank you.
 
Last edited:

ipc824

Young grasshopper
Joined
Aug 16, 2022
Messages
47
Reaction score
19
Location
Nowheresville
* A quick update *

I was able to use the 4 X and get IVS working (I think?). Both motion and smart detection were disabled in camera. The result were mixed this evening. Not sure If I configured everything right. I will attempt with 5442 tomorrow.

IP8M-T2669EW-AI is the Amcrest. This one is $119 USD.
 
Last edited:

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
26,018
Reaction score
50,818
Location
USA
Here is how most of us get the cameras to the IP address of our system:

The default IP address of the camera is 192.168.1.108, which may or may not be the IP address range of your system.

Unhook a computer or laptop from the internet and go into ethernet settings and using the IPv4 settings manually change the IP address to 192.168.1.100

1643659199778.png






Then power up your camera and wait a few minutes.

Then go to INTERNET EXPLORER (needs to be Explorer and not Edge or Chrome with IE tab) and type in 192.168.1.108 (default IP address of Dahua cameras) and you will then access the camera.

Tell it your country and give it a user and password.

Then go to the camera Network settings and change the camera IP address to the range of your system and hit save.

You will then lose the camera connection.

Then reverse the process to put your computer back on your network IP address range.

Next open up INTERNET EXPLORER and type in the new IP address that you just gave the camera to access it.

OR use the IPconfig Tool, but most of us prefer the above as it is one less program needed and one less chance for the cameras to phone home.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
26,018
Reaction score
50,818
Location
USA
Yes, most of us have found the IVS to be outstanding. But you also can't expect miracles. Trying to identify on the edges of the field of view can be problematic in some instances.




Reolinks and BI are horrible combination, so no wonder you didn't have good experience with motion detection!

 

ipc824

Young grasshopper
Joined
Aug 16, 2022
Messages
47
Reaction score
19
Location
Nowheresville
Yes, most of us have found the IVS to be outstanding. But you also can't expect miracles. Trying to identify on the edges of the field of view can be problematic in some instances.

Reolinks and BI are horrible combination, so no wonder you didn't have good experience with motion detection!
I am thankful for you digging that forum post out. I probably accidentally searched "ISV" and wondered why I found nothing. The Reolinks are actually doing ok, but clearly missing events. I'm within the return period for all of the cams. If the 5442 works with IVS, I'll decide between it and the 4k X.

Having said that I am wondering if Amcrest and BI aren't playing well together. Haven't go it to work yet
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
26,018
Reaction score
50,818
Location
USA
RETURN THE REOLINKS! I assure you they are not doing ok, especially at night. Please look at the thread I linked showing why and how Reolinks and BI do not work well together. And then see the rest of the thread of all the examples of how poor they are with images at night.

The short-answer is the Blue Iris developer has indicated that for best reliability, sub stream frame rate should be equal to the main stream frame rate and these cameras cannot do that and there is nothing you can do about that with these cameras... The iframe rates (something these cameras do not allow you to set) should equal the FPS, but at worse case be no more than double. This example shows the cameras going down to a keyrate of 0.25 means that the iframe rates are over 4 times the FPS and that is why motion detection is a disaster with these cameras and Blue Iris...A value of 0.5 or less is considered insufficient to trust for motion triggers reliably...we have seen people come here where the reo/BI combo missed them pulling their car into their garage, so it would probably miss your motion as well.

A key of 0.25 means that if the object can be in and off of your camera view in under 4 seconds, it will miss the motion. Folks have seen the key drop to 0.10 with these cams, which means if an object is not on your screen for longer than 10 seconds, it will miss the motion.

But even in the daytime the BI/Reolink combo can suck. There is a video here of someone in the middle of the day pulling his car into the garage and the Reolink/BI combo missed the whole thing.

You correctly pointed out the Amcrest is Dahua, but they are usually stripped down versions, so either the processor isn't capable of IVS (or maybe doesn't have it) or user error in setting it up. Screenshots always help, along with model numbers.
 

ipc824

Young grasshopper
Joined
Aug 16, 2022
Messages
47
Reaction score
19
Location
Nowheresville
RETURN THE REOLINKS!
I don't want this thread going down the Reolink rabbit hole. The opinion for those cameras are well documented here. FWIW, the R811a can adjust sub and main to be equal and it can reudce iframe to 1x. Just for clarity sake.

If anyone can explain why my Amcrest won't trigger a IVS, I would be glad to use those cameras as well. The menu is there (except global) and I can make my tripwires, but it clearly isn't sending the trigger back to BI.

Thanks.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
26,018
Reaction score
50,818
Location
USA
Without going down that rabbit hole, that thread I linked has several people mentioning about the firmware now allowing the iframes to match FPS and they said they would update the firmware and provide an update to the forum and we have yet to have any of them report back that it indeed works and that the camera now magically works in BI and the picture quality is improved... Even if they can get the KEY in BI to be 1.00, there are better options for the price. Unless you like ghost images LOL.

Again, what model Amcrest and screenshots from BI of your settings?

How did you bring the camera into BI - best practice is to add camera and put in IP address, username, password and hit the find/inspect key and let BI find the best settings for the camera. If you did a pulldown of cameras and selected one, that could explain why the ONVIF is not coming over.
 
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
247
Reaction score
177
Location
alabama
I don't want this thread going down the Reolink rabbit hole.
I installed a reolink sys at a customers home.. 4 cameras. Gave tem a zip drive full of "how to videos" ...They feel like they gota great deal, and price wize they did. That may be the best thing going for reolink, their support videos.

If your gona use reolink use all their equipment. Most consumers don't compare their sys to another.

I've got two 5 Mp reolink cameras in the box. They'll stay there unless oe of the few customers want to add a couple.
 

ipc824

Young grasshopper
Joined
Aug 16, 2022
Messages
47
Reaction score
19
Location
Nowheresville
Sorry. IP8M-T2669EW-AI is the Amcrest. This one is $119 USD. I will get screenshots tomorrow.
I added them into BI just as you described.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
26,018
Reaction score
50,818
Location
USA
Ok, so that is a budget camera that is 4K on a 1/2.8" sensor, which means at night it will struggle, especially with IVS. That sensor is great for 2MP but horrible for 4K (8MP). You would be better off with a 2MP camera!

The 5442 you have is 4MP on the 1/1.8" sensor, while the 4K/X is 4K on the 1/1.2" sensor.

It is literally a night and day difference between this Amcrest and the 4K/X.

OK enough about the camera quality LOL.

So what happens in BI - it just doesn't trigger or it triggers for everything? Like on the left side of the screen and in the BI log it is not showing any events or is it just not alerting your phone?

I see you mention Added push alert to phone under "Immediate actions" - do you have the phone app? It will not work without the BI phone app.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
26,018
Reaction score
50,818
Location
USA
Something else to keep in mind is surveillance cameras rarely do good on default auto settings like exposure/shutter at night. Any camera can be forced in color and look great for a static image, but motion is a blur.

So please avoid the temptation at night to compare this Amcrest with the 5442 or 4K/X right out of the box and say they all look nice and bright. That is the whole setup of the auto/default setting is to give a nice bright static image.

We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. Default/auto may be on 1/12 shutter or worse to make the image bright.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

But first, run H264, smart codec off, CBR, and 8192 bitrate to start, along with 15 FPS and 15 i-frame.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.

Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
 

ipc824

Young grasshopper
Joined
Aug 16, 2022
Messages
47
Reaction score
19
Location
Nowheresville
The 5442 you have is 4MP on the 1/1.8" sensor, while the 4K/X is 4K on the 1/1.2" sensor.

So what happens in BI - it just doesn't trigger or it triggers for everything? Like on the left side of the screen and in the BI log it is not showing any events or is it just not alerting your phone?

I see you mention Added push alert to phone under "Immediate actions" - do you have the phone app? It will not work without the BI phone app.
So BI is not triggering at all. There is no alerts in the left column. I have the phone app. But the camera itself is showing events. I haven't tried the 5442 IVS yet.

A question regarding the sensors in both the 5442 and the 4K-X. Is that sensor size all that relevant between the two? I have been somewhat disappointed in the 5442 ZE's picture quality. I think it's the 4MP. So, I like the 4K/X, and I will like it even better without the ghosting I get. I will try your recommendations. All else being equal, if I get the IVS to work on the 5442, I will just pick between the two. Unless you guys like a camera in that ~250 price range you like better? Also, looking for a camera indoors (nursery room) - would you have any recs for that? I need a good night vision to watch infant breaths..

I will mess with the settings for the Dahuas. If the Amcrest doesn't give, I will return it. Officially returning the REO's
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,503
Reaction score
27,703
Location
New Jersey
One more comment about IVS. Leave some space between the edge of the frame and the IVS lines so the camera has time to "see" motion prior to the object crossing the IVS lin. One more comment is that you can also try intrusion boxes in IVS rather than line crossing. Depending on the camera one may work better than the other.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
26,018
Reaction score
50,818
Location
USA
What about the picture quality of the 5442 you don't like? Post a screenshot or video snippet. In all likelihood it is parameter issues. Too low bitrate and VBR instead of CBR are the usual culprits. But the 5442 is the current overall king of cameras.

But if you follow the guidelines above, you shouldn't get ghosting. Ghosting happens on inferior consumer grade budget cameras that favor bright static images over quality motion at night images. If the 5442 is doing it, you are either on default settings or haven't dialed it in to your field of view.

The sensor size makes a huge difference.

For the same field of view, the 4K/X will produce a better image than the 5442, but keep in mind you have a varifocal, so you can optically zoom to a tighter field of view than the fixed lens 4K/X.

For indoors like a nursery where the IR will bounce off the walls, almost any Lorex or Amcrest budget cam will be sufficient.
 

ipc824

Young grasshopper
Joined
Aug 16, 2022
Messages
47
Reaction score
19
Location
Nowheresville
Thanks to the both of you. I will try the other IVS function. Also, is there anything particularly wrong with me just drawing up and === and |||| up and down the camera lens for tripwires? I'm talking everywhere.

I haven't had time today to test the 5442 yet and I don't think I'll get to it. Ghosting may not be the right word. I walked into it and got a very noisy and hologram version of myself.

What about the 5842T in this fight?

Thank you guys.
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,503
Reaction score
27,703
Location
New Jersey
Fewer is better, don't get crazy with the lines. Some verticals, say four max, some horizontals, again 4 max. That can be simplified with an intrusion box where one ox can handle almost the entire screen if you like.
 

ipc824

Young grasshopper
Joined
Aug 16, 2022
Messages
47
Reaction score
19
Location
Nowheresville
Also, FYI of the 3 Reolinks, I only received 1 notification while unscrewing from the soffits. :p

To be fair - I was leaving it solely to Deepstack. Hence, why I am hoping for better detection with IVS.

Thanks again guys.
 

ipc824

Young grasshopper
Joined
Aug 16, 2022
Messages
47
Reaction score
19
Location
Nowheresville
For the same field of view, the 4K/X will produce a better image than the 5442, but keep in mind you have a varifocal, so you can optically zoom to a tighter field of view than the fixed lens 4K/X.
What about the 5842T in this fight?
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
26,018
Reaction score
50,818
Location
USA
Personally I would stay with one of the others. The 5842 is on the same size sensor as the 5442 but the 5842 has double the MP, which means double the light is needed. Further, many here believe that 4MP is more than sufficient for these type of camera needs. Whether it is 2MP, 4MP or 8MP, it will never compete with the quality of a DSLR or even most iphones LOL. Two totally different use cases.

In case you haven't seen this, here is a thread I put together discussing the benefits of selecting focal length over MP for the distance you want to IDENTIFY. In some cases, the 2MP is a better option. I also list in post #2 of that thread the common recommended cameras for each distance.

 
Top