Connecting cameras to PoE switch, then to NVR

[parallon]

Hello all. So, I currently have (10) IPC-HDW5231R-ZE cameras hooked to my NVR-5216-16P-4KS2 in my garage. All the wires come from the attic through a hole in the ceiling. I am wanting to move all my equipment to a closet in the office for better temperature control. I really don't want to have to make such a big hole in the ceiling of the closet to run the wires from the cameras, so I was thinking about putting a PoE switch in the garage for all the cameras to connect to, and then just run an Ethernet cable to another switch (non-PoE) in the closet, and from there branch out to the back of the NVR. Is this even possible? How would connecting a non-PoE switch to the NVR work? I still want the NVR to be able to be accessed remotely. Can you turn off the PoE function of the NVR, or is it automatic sensing? I hope this makes sense.

Thanks in advance,

Mike

 

[wittaj]

You have to connect the POE switch to a non-POE switch and then from that switch to the WAN/LAN of the NVR.

You cannot connect more than one camera to the NVR POE ports (although sometimes is does work, it isn't intended to work that way).

 

[parallon]

Thank you for your reply. So, just to clarify, are you saying that the (10) cameras will to into (10) ports of the PoE Switch, then a cable will go from the PoE Switch to the non-PoE switch, and then only a single cable from the non-PoE switch to the LAN/WAN of the NVR will work? I don't need to run (10) cables from the non-PoE switch to the (10) ports on the NVR? If so, that would simplify things a lot. Then NVR will still see all (10) cameras through the LAN/WAN connection?

Also, is EmpireTech Andy still the trusted supplier these days? It has been a few years since I purchased any equipment.

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[wittaj]

Yes, a single cable will work. This is exactly how non-POE NVRs work.

The NVR will see all 10 cameras, but in all likelihood you will have to "manually" add them into the NVR, but sometimes you get lucky and they re-populate in.

And yes @EMPIRETECANDY is still the go to vendor here.

 

[parallon]

Excellent!!! Thank you so much!

Mike

 

[parallon]

Sorry to bother again, but looking at the switches and the PoEaf/at specs, it looks like the voltage output will be between 44v and 57v. How does this work when the spec on the cameras has an input voltage of only 12v? Or am I missing something here... I was looking at the Netgear
GS316PP PoE Switch, and I have the Dauha IPC-HDW5231R-ZE cameras.

Thanks again...

Mike

 

[TonyR]

Sorry to bother again, but looking at the switches and the PoEaf/at specs, it looks like the voltage output will be between 44v and 57v. How does this work when the spec on the cameras has an input voltage of only 12v? Or am I missing something here... I was looking at the Netgear
GS316PP PoE Switch, and I have the Dauha IPC-HDW5231R-ZE cameras.

Thanks again...

Mike

Those cameras will operate on either 12VDC (there's a female jack) OR 802.3af/at-compliant POE but don't connect both.

 

[parallon]

Quick question, do you happen to know the bandwidth of each camera? I currently have 11 of the IPC-HDW5231R-ZE cameras. I am trying to redesign my network, and didn't want the camera feed to interfere with my Internet speed. My intent was to leave the POE switch (which all cameras will connect to) and my cable modem in the garage, and then run that traffic to the rest of my equipment in my office. Would I be better off running a separate line for Internet from the modem to the office, rather than connecting the modem to the POE switch?

I found the following chart, and based on this, I think I will be WELL within my limits... From the specs, it shows a bit rate of H.264: 24~9472Kbps H.265: 14~5632Kbps, so even worst case I think I will be pushing (11) * 9472 = 104192 Kbps or 104 Mb/s. Is this correct? All equipment is gigabit, and Internet is only 200 Mb/s.



Thanks again,

Mike

 

[wittaj]

If possible you want to keep your camera traffic off the router.

Your internet speed isn't the issue. We see this issue ALL THE TIME HERE. Folks come here with slow internet or Zoom is choppy, etc. and as soon as they remove the cameras off the router, all is well.

The consumer routers are just not designed for this kind of traffic, even a GB speed router.

Cameras connected to Wifi routers (whether the camera is wifi or not) are problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to send cameras through a wifi router. At the very least it can slow down your entire system.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent, especially once you start adding distance. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes - mine goes 45 seconds. Now do the same with a camera connected to a router and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

The same issue applies even with the hard-wired cameras trying to send all this non-buffer video stream through a router. Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues.

So the more cameras you add or more streams you try to push concurrently, the bigger the potential for issues.

It is why most of us isolate our cameras so that they are not going thru the router.

 

[parallon]

Thank you so much for the detailed answer. So, maybe a dumb question, but if not going through the router, how are you able to access the streams remotely, if needed? I am still going through the NVR and not using anything like Blue Iris.

Mike

 

[wittaj]

We access remotely by using a VPN - one that you host and is free, not one that you pay for. Many routers have OpenVPN built in.

So in this case the only time the cameras go thru the router is when we are accessing them remotely. But the cameras never go thru the router to get to the NVR.

Here is the general network topology, but you can replace BI PC and POE switch with NVR as the NVR acts as a NIC1 and NIC2

From this graphic courtesy of samplenhold, you will notice the cameras are on one IP subnet (192.168.2.xxx) while everything else is on IP subnet 192.168.1.xxx subnet.

Doing so in this format prevents the cameras from going thru the router. Now this is for BI, but the concept is the same for an NVR. Your NVR acts as the POE switch for the BI computer in this diagram.

VPN Primer for Noobs

The internet is a force of nature; no video surveillance system made was designed to be exposed to those forces.. NEVER FORWARD PORTS to your NVR or Cameras, doing such things not only exposes you to severe security problems, but everyone else on the internet too.. Hackers dont want your video...

ipcamtalk.com

How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!)

Many camera networks are unsecure, even those installed by professionals. This guide gives basic instruction in how to secure a camera network from the most common types of attacks. Perhaps the most important rule of securing a computer network is to not forward ports to unsecure services...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[parallon]

Ok, now I get it. This statement says it all... "So in this case the only time the cameras go thru the router is when we are accessing them remotely. But the cameras never go thru the router to get to the NVR. " Perfect.

Thanks again...

Mike

 

[parallon]

Hi there. So having a 4 year old and a wife that works from home, makes it a little hard to do anything with the network. So with that said, I am barely starting to do the upgrade now. @wittaj, in the diagram you provided above, I am assuming that the Enet line that goes from the camera's POE switch to the Blue Iris (NVR in my case) goes into anyone of the ports on my NVR that the cameras used to go into? The NVR will differentiate between the various IP addresses of the cameras and display them properly on the monitor?

After rereading your post, it sound like my NVR replaces the POE switch. My issue is all the cameras terminate in the garage, and I have my NVR in the office. I was going to use a 16-port POE switch in the garage for the cameras to terminate into, and then run a single Enet cable to the office and plug into the NVR there, and that is why I assumed that I could plug that cable into any of the ports on the NVR. And then I would connect the LAN port of the NVR to my other switch after the router. Or am I going about this the wrong way?

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[bigredfish]

While not with 16 cameras but mote like 8 I have done that.

8 cams plugged into external PoE switch 100ft away, single cable from switch plugged into another external 4 port switch beside the NVR. NVR plugs into this same switch as does the LAN/Router

I also have a few locations where I do both. Plug some cameras directly into PoE ports of the NVR, others plug into an external switch. The NVR plugs into this same switch which is plugged into the LAN/router

 

[parallon]

Thanks for the reply. So what you're saying, the cable coming from the POE switch doesn't go directly to the NVR, IT goes to a regular switch first and then from there it goes to the NVR LAN port?

 

[bigredfish]

Yes.

Another option is IF your NVR has a "Bridge Mode" option which turns the PoE switch into a regular switch

 

[Timokreon]

Considering I'm learning all this as well, why can't you just got camera -- POE switch directly to the NVR? Need a cable to the router?

If so, then router -- POE switch -- NVR?

 

[tigerwillow1]

why can't you just got camera -- POE switch directly to the NVR? Need a cable to the router?

It's just the way the NVR works. Each of its POE ports will work only with a single camera in DHCP mode. It assigns an IP address to the camera hooked to the port. Each port is kinda-sorta like a router for a one-device network. The NVR's main network port can work with multiple cameras up to the NVR's camera limit. When you interface with cameras through the main network port, you should configure them with static IPs that won't conflict with what your router assigns to other devices, or configure IP assignments in the router. The requirement is (1) That the camera IP addresses don't change, and (2) They don't conflict with what the router might assign to other devices. Boxes called routers usually have 2 devices in them: The router, and a switch. A pure router has only a single LAN port. If there are multiple LAN ports, it has a built-in switch and you can use one of those to connect to the distant POE switch that the cameras are hooked to. Based on the video a few posts up, you should also be able to place your NVR's POE ports into switch mode, then connect one of those ports to the distant POE switch. The prior issues about IP address assignments would still apply.

 

[parallon]

I like the idea in the video above. I looked into it, and it looks like my model should have the bridge mode capability, although I believe my firmware needs to be updated. Does anyone happen to know where to get the firmware for the NVR5216-16P-4KS2? I see so many that look similar, and just don't know what the differences are. I know people shy against updating firmware, but it's worth a try before having to buy a new NVR just to get updated firmware. Also, I was looking and didn't find a way to back up the current firmware on the unit. Is that possible?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[bigredfish]

is yours an 'E" model - 4KS2E

If so on this page, scroll down a bit click on DOWNLOAD then FIRMWARE

NVR5216/5232-16P-4KS2E

NVR5216/5232-16P-4KS2E

www.dahuasecurity.com