Can IP Cams work without internet connection?

[onyxlinkia]

I have no internet connection in my detached garage. I'm just wondering if I set up a POE switch, old NVR, cables and the IP cams will work?

 

[bp2008]

Yes it will still work. You obviously won't be able to view the video remotely. But most PoE camera systems have no problem running without internet.

A pair of these would be able to link a network between two buildings without running a cable between buildings.

http://amzn.com/dp/B00N2RO63U

 

[wittaj]

Just make sure you do not purchase a cloud-based system as most of those need internet connection or it won't work.

 

[onyxlinkia]

bp2008,

Wow, thanks so much for pointing out this option, wasn't aware of it. There's no more underground conduit for me to run CAT5e. Trenching will cost too much. I will attempt to run one thru an unused 3/4 PVC sprinkler pipe but I think it will be challenging.

Yes it will still work. You obviously won't be able to view the video remotely.

A pair of these would be able to link a network between two buildings without running a cable between buildings.

http://amzn.com/dp/B00N2RO63U

 

[onyxlinkia]

Just make sure you do not purchase a cloud-based system as most of those need internet connection or it won't work.

I'm upgrading the system in the main house and plan to move my LaView system to the garage.

 

[bp2008]

If your 3/4 PVC is empty and doesn't have many bends then it should be doable (but probably not easy) to run a network cable through it. Common advice is to run two in case one fails for whatever reason, but that might be tough in pre-existing conduit.

Otherwise don't despair, the point to point radio link should be plenty fast enough and nearly as reliable as a cable if the line of sight between them is clear. The radios I linked will only do 100 Mbps and if for some reason that is not enough, there do exist alternatives with gigabit wired interfaces, although most of them will not achieve a full 1 Gbps through the air due to spectrum and protocol limitations.

 

[onyxlinkia]

The sprinkler pipe is empty but I have no idea how many bends are under the concrete. I think running one is tough enough, not sure about 2

For the PTP wireless bridge, I think the 2.4Ghz is enough for my use case since my house is about 30 ft from the detached garage?

If your 3/4 PVC is empty and doesn't have many bends then it should be doable (but probably not easy) to run a network cable through it. Common advice is to run two in case one fails for whatever reason, but that might be tough in pre-existing conduit.

Otherwise don't despair, the point to point radio link should be plenty fast enough and nearly as reliable as a cable if the line of sight between them is clear. The radios I linked will only do 100 Mbps and if for some reason that is not enough, there do exist alternatives with gigabit wired interfaces, although most of them will not achieve a full 1 Gbps through the air due to spectrum and protocol limitations.

 

[bp2008]

Enough, yes. But I don't recommend using 2.4 Ghz for outdoor PTP bridges.

5 GHz is much more appropriate for 3 reasons:

1) Fewer devices use 5 GHz, so there is less noise/interference.
2) 5 GHz radio does not penetrate obstructions as well as 2.4 GHz, which again improves noise/interference levels. Typical outdoor PTP links have clear line of sight through nothing but air, so they don't need the penetration capability.
3) There's more spectrum available with 5 GHz radios, so you can have faster links, and again, less chance of suffering from noise/interference sources because other 5 GHz radios are less likely to be using the same channels as yours.

 

[bp2008]

I should also note that the radios I linked are good for distances of several kilometers. At short range like this you are actually better off turning down the output power on both ends because that reduces interference for other nearby 5 GHz equipment.

 

[onyxlinkia]

Good points, thanks for pointing these out.

Enough, yes. But I don't recommend using 2.4 Ghz for outdoor PTP bridges.

5 GHz is much more appropriate for 3 reasons:

1) Fewer devices use 5 GHz, so there is less noise/interference.
2) 5 GHz radio does not penetrate obstructions as well as 2.4 GHz, which again improves noise/interference levels. Typical outdoor PTP links have clear line of sight through nothing but air, so they don't need the penetration capability.
3) There's more spectrum available with 5 GHz radios, so you can have faster links, and again, less chance of suffering from noise/interference sources because other 5 GHz radios are less likely to be using the same channels as yours.

 

[Virga]

Recently I coaxed/persuaded pull-strings through 330-plus feet of ¾” buried conduits, with elbows and vertical risers at either end. I was skeptical this was going to work, gave it a shot, and it worked.

It might depend on the length of conduit you are working with and how many bends/elbows there are. Irrigation conduit will likely have elbows rather than sweeps. Still, there is a good chance it could work.

I used an air compressor to push pull-string that comes in 500-foot lengths in plastic cans at Home Depot and Lowes, one of them is Klein, the other is a different brand, but it is the same stuff.
Key is to create a “sail” for the string. Cut off some plastic film such as from a Home Depot or Lowes shopping bag, or even a grocery produce bag. Tie the string to it. When bunched up along its length, the plastic film should easily feed into the conduit. I used a big air compressor to push the string, with the plastic film creating a “sail” effect and increasing resistance for the compressed air to push. My electrician said vacuum it, though I used the air compressor because I briefly had access to a serious compressor and just wanted to get to use it. I think a normal shop vac would be sufficient.

I found that the string fed through steadily and slowly. There was water in the conduit so that too had to get pushed (or vacuumed).

Once the pull string is in there, you could most probably pull a couple of ethernet cables through a 3/4” conduit. Pull more pull-string along with the cable so you have string continuity in the conduit at all times. This way you can pull in either direction and have a plan B. If pulling two cables, stagger the ends a few inches. I find that taping the pulling end of cables to form a “cone/tip” of sorts makes the pull easier, and coax/persuade the tip through elbows.

In my opinion I/we often overestimate the difficulty of things. When we get to it determined to make it work, things work out.
Good luck if you decide to try it.

 

[onyxlinkia]

Hi Virga,

Thanks for sharing these. I have actually tried the shop vac with plastic ball trick a few months ago. I got the string thru the other end but when I pulled the string tying to the cat5, it broke. I think it's not strong/thick enough to pull the cable.

I'm going to try with thicker/stronger pull string and see how it goes. Did you use any cable pulling grease?

Recently I coaxed/persuaded pull-strings through 330-plus feet of ¾” buried conduits, with elbows and vertical risers at either end. I was skeptical this was going to work, gave it a shot, and it worked.

It might depend on the length of conduit you are working with and how many bends/elbows there are. Irrigation conduit will likely have elbows rather than sweeps. Still, there is a good chance it could work.

I used an air compressor to push pull-string that comes in 500-foot lengths in plastic cans at Home Depot and Lowes, one of them is Klein, the other is a different brand, but it is the same stuff.
Key is to create a “sail” for the string. Cut off some plastic film such as from a Home Depot or Lowes shopping bag, or even a grocery produce bag. Tie the string to it. When bunched up along its length, the plastic film should easily feed into the conduit. I used a big air compressor to push the string, with the plastic film creating a “sail” effect and increasing resistance for the compressed air to push. My electrician said vacuum it, though I used the air compressor because I briefly had access to a serious compressor and just wanted to get to use it. I think a normal shop vac would be sufficient.

I found that the string fed through steadily and slowly. There was water in the conduit so that too had to get pushed (or vacuumed).

Once the pull string is in there, you could most probably pull a couple of ethernet cables through a 3/4” conduit. Pull more pull-string along with the cable so you have string continuity in the conduit at all times. This way you can pull in either direction and have a plan B. If pulling two cables, stagger the ends a few inches. I find that taping the pulling end of cables to form a “cone/tip” of sorts makes the pull easier, and coax/persuade the tip through elbows.

In my opinion I/we often overestimate the difficulty of things. When we get to it determined to make it work, things work out.
Good luck if you decide to try it.

 

[Virga]

I used to help my electrician friend working on my house, and got some practice.
Using the pull string to pull a huskier string might be useful, as would cable grease.
Also, try a back-and-forth motion, and "feel" the cable. For some reason cable and tubing sort of kink and double over in conduit when being pulled, so get stuck. If you have a second pair of hands tugging the cable back gently, you might be able to make it through even if it is two steps forward, one step back. Each iteration will be a net gain. Patience WILL pay off.

 

[onyxlinkia]

The challenge i face is i will be pulling thru 3/4" PVC sprinkler pipe, not conduit, it won't be as smooth. Should I even try two CAT5 at once? I think two will be tough to get thru multiple 45 angle L connectors. I might be able to get 1 CAT5 thru.

I used to help my electrician friend working on my house, and got some practice.
Using the pull string to pull a huskier string might be useful, as would cable grease.
Also, try a back-and-forth motion, and "feel" the cable. For some reason cable and tubing sort of kink and double over in conduit when being pulled, so get stuck. If you have a second pair of hands tugging the cable back gently, you might be able to make it through even if it is two steps forward, one step back. Each iteration will be a net gain. Patience WILL pay off.

 

[TonyR]

If the remote building has power and you're in an area with fierce lightning I'd go with a pair of radios to form a wireless PtP bridge.

If not and/or you decide to go with the cable in the underground conduit, be sure to use CAT-5e or 6 that is rated for flooded or direct burial.

No matter how well the joints and fittings are sealed, water will over time collect in the conduit and the conductor will be resting in water 24/7. This is due to a process that, for lack of anything else, I call "differential thermal cycling": moisture enters the conduit generally from above-ground boxes and fixtures, collect in low points as the air inside the conduit is subjected to a thermal cycle (heats up during day, air inside expands, cools off at night and contracts, drawing in damp outside air, condenses, travels to low point, is trapped and won't escape during warm up cycle, just continues to collect at low points).