Can I use an Intel NUC as my NVR?

[IPCamDude]

Hi guys,

Quick question for the setup that I'm considering.

Will be using 6x Dahua IPC-HFW4300S cameras with a PoE switch.

Was thinking of using an Intel NUC i5 machine as the NVR running Blue Iris.

Here is a link to the exact one: http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BOXD54250WYKH1-Core-i5-4250U-Graphics/dp/B00HZDLNWO/

Is this something that would work or do I need something more powerful to handle 6 of these cameras?

I would throw in an SSD that I have laying around inside the NUC and would have a 3TB WD Purple connected via USB3 for it to record onto.

Thank you very much!

 

[bp2008]

I wouldn't try it. You could probably get it to work with reduced frame rates and direct to disk recording, but it would be high CPU usage. It would run hot and possibly get noisy (I don't know how loud the fans are on that).

Not worth it just to have a small form factor if you ask me.

Edit: On the other hand the efficiency (performance per watt) is very good with a NUC. If you live in a place with excessively expensive electricity then it might be worthwhile. You could always run more efficient NVR software if you aren't happy with Blue Iris' performance.

 

[IPCamDude]

Thanks bp2008, what kind of hardware would you suggest for doing a 6 camera setup?

I can build a rig myself, but was hoping I could find something that I could fit into my current server rack (a tripp lite srw6u).
(one of the rack spaces will be taken up by a new PoE switch).

Any ideal recommendation for a rig that can handle 6 of these cameras and expand to 8 at some point?

Thank you!

 

[bp2008]

Thats tricky. I have a Gigabyte Brix Pro GB-BXi7-4770R which is running a sweet little i7 CPU that would be more than up to the task. And it would probably fit in there, but you wouldn't want to run Blue Iris on it. It gets NOISY and runs very hot. It hits its thermal max (100 C) with significantly less than 100% CPU load, and even the SSD and RAM gets to temperatures that a lot of people don't even want their CPUs getting to.

You might consider a normal 1U rack server. A quick search returned this http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KXFMJ2Y which would do alright with 8 of those cameras. The important part is the CPU, which scores 8058 at CPUBenchmark: (http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E3-1245+@+3.30GHz). That places it just above a modern i5 CPU in performance. You can likely do better with some shopping around or by putting it together yourself.

For future proofing, you should look for 8 GB of RAM and the fastest CPU you can afford. It is hard to overdo the CPU when you are running Blue Iris, because it works best with direct to disc disabled, and high frame rates are nice. You can't have both without a really nice CPU.

 

[IPCamDude]

Thank you bp2008, that's really helpful.

Is your Brix Pro running Blue Iris, or do you use a different monitoring software? Is your recommendation not to use Blue Iris just because of the noise and temperature with it being inside the server rack?

Perhaps I should abandon the idea of having the NVR inside the server rack enclosure and just have it sit elsewhere.

Thank you again and sorry for the barrage of questions -- I am learning a lot!

 

[bp2008]

My Brix Pro does run Blue Iris but I keep the load very low. It is currently 2-3% CPU usage, recording 4 sub streams 24/7 with direct to disc, so it doesn't get too hot or too noisy. It is my "secondary" Blue Iris box. And honestly, it was a waste of money because I can't put any constant heavy load on it without it sounding like a small vacuum cleaner. Despite it having technically the fastest and most energy efficient CPU in the house.

My primary is a desktop with an i7-3770k which I run a lot heavier load on because it has better cooling (and even then it is just Intel's stock air cooling). It also runs Blue Iris. In both systems the settings are tweaked to save CPU time wherever possible. If I was to run a more efficient NVR software on either one of these, it would improve my video frame rates dramatically and likely still reduce CPU usage. But I would lose certain things that Blue Iris does well, like compatibility with all my cameras, and on-demand transcoding of all video streams to JPEG.

I don't know how loud a 1U rack server would get under heavy load, but I bet it is significant since the fans would be small.

If you really want to run Blue Iris, I personally would recommend putting together a desktop system with an i7-4790K or similar CPU. To save cash, systems with slightly older i7 CPUs can be found used/refurbished for very significant savings. But that is just what I would do. If you want the machine to fit in your rack, then a 1U rack server is definitely not out of the question

 

[Razer]

If you want something that will run fine on the NUC you would have to move to different software. Exacq software would run great on there, but the software will cost $300 for six cameras. Seems high, but then again if your are having to build a high end desktop just to run cheaper software then the costs equal out. I record 12 cameras on old celeron boxes with no issues and I'd not be afraid of running it on a NUC at all. An i5 NUC is my daily driver desktop here at work and what I'm typing this on. I just tested and pulled up 48 cameras in exacq live view and it used 84% of my CPU.

I build 20 camera systems on i3 desktops with 4gb of ram all the time and they are working great for me with Exacq, I just built an 18 camera system yesterday in fact. I only record on motion, with Dahua I have always been able to record non stop, but motion has only recently been added in exacq for dahua recently and for just a few models. Hik is fully supported so far though so I'm using those primarily now.

I like BI a lot, other than needing a monster computer to run it. I have 80+ DVRs and over 1,000 cameras and it is much easier to support and maintain a simple cool running system that lasts for years than a power hungry hi temp machine that will break more often. I need to set these and forget them so I prefer the simple machines for reliability's sake. If BI could eventually build in motion detection on the camera side I'd like it a lot more.

 

[IPCamDude]

Thank you bp2008 and Razer.

I am completely new to IP Cameras and therefore have no particular bias towards Blue Iris or any of its competitors so am completely open to suggestions for alternatives.

Razer, are there any disadvantages (besides the price) of using the Dahuas with Exacq versus Blue Iris? Does Blue Iris provide any added functionality or features that Exacq wouldn't provide? Is the learning curve similar for both? I have an IT background so I don't expect to have many issues but if I do, is the Blue Iris support community much larger?

Sorry for the barrage of questions but you are giving me hope that the i5 NUC may be able to get the job done. I just hope that going to an alternative vs Blue Iris would not result in a loss of features or customization options.

Just to give a little more info about my use-case, I would almost always be remotely viewing the footage if I needed to. I wouldn't have a monitor on-site and this gear would be inside a closet and almost never accessed in person. If there was an issue then I may go on-site and view the footage directly there, otherwise I would just check in on it remotely.

Thank you everyone!

 

[bp2008]

I am sure you could get this to work on the i5 NUC, but not with Blue Iris.

There is free NVR software out there. I haven't used any of it but Dahua PSS and Milestone XProtect Go both come to mind. Both are likely efficient enough to run on the i5 NUC, though I can't swear on that. If I had to guess I would assume Dahua PSS is more efficient, and XProtect Go probably has better features, but also some limitations since it is the free version of fairly expensive NVR product.

There is also http://geniusvision.net/ -- they have a free version that I tried briefly a long time ago. It was kind of hard to set up but it worked okay. I don't know where they've gone in the past few years.

 

[paarlberg]

You can get a SuperMicro mini-1U. It only supports 2 regular 3.5" drives. I usually buy from Apaq Digital www.apaqdigital.com. They have a wide range of CPU motherboard combos for the mini-1u (not just the ones listed on their site). Optionally, you can look for a supermicro SC5xx series chassis and use any mobo you want (picked up several chassis for cheap a few years ago on ebay). I like the IPMI versions since you can rack it and then install OS and everything from remote.

A client of mine has an X3440 and E3-1220 v3 in a similar rack in their office and the noise is not terrible. The x3440 has about 10x RDP sessions, the other is their data and mail server. They will sell the systems without drives if you want, many of the systems have IPMI, so you don't have to use RDP to access it.

 

[Razer]

I too am pretty agnostic as far as brands of both software and hardware. I am using Exacq because in my situation it was the only software that mat my needs at all and they had a very wide base of cameras. I'm never going to say it's the absolute best as everyone's needs are different. I will say that I like it quite a bit, at this point I have been using it HEAVILY for coming up on three years and been very pleased.

Remote viewing and capture is literally all I do, my DVRs are over five states and all recording locally so I have to pull footage like you will be doing. The only "bad" part can be you are usually limited by whatever your upload speed is where the DVR is at. If you would be using the software headless on a NUC I would imagine your processor usage would be under 5%. Most of my DVRs are i3's and with the client closed they use between 1-3% and that is while I'm in there checking on them through a VNC connection!

The biggest difference would be in motion detection features, Exacq will use the hardware detection in the camera while BI is totally software based. That is why BI uses so much CPU, in Exacq the camera is doing all the work. Some cameras motion detection are better than others, I greatly prefer Hikvision motion detection to ACTI, Axis, Vivotek and others. All IP cameras should work like the Hiks. The last time I tried Dahua they were not actually supported at all by Exacq so I was only getting non stop recording. If that is what you want then no issue, but I record on motion only so I did not end up using them Now that I have 200 Hiks I'll just stick with them so my life is slightly easier lol. I believe motion is now supported with Dahua cameras though.

You can get a trial of Exacq that is fully functional and works perfectly on one camera to test out, if you have any issues let me know and I can assist you in getting a trial easy enough. Exacq has features I like, full app support. Apple, Android, and Windows phone and tablet support. Full featured web browser client access, you can control PTZ, search and view video and all from the web client. Searching video is much better in the desktop app I will admit, but it is doable. Desktop client will work in OSX and Windows and even Linux. Not bad for $50 per camera. Quesitons just ask, I'll try and answer whatever you got!

I also have purchased the Exacq IO module for the ones I built so I have real alarm input and outputs on machines even if I built them myself. Controlling gates and alarms and optex motion sensors with them and they are working well too. The gate relays do not like being hit by lightning though....

 

[IPCamDude]

Thank you everyone again for such detailed and well thought out replies to my questions.

At this point I think I should try Blue Iris on an i7 machine and see how that works, and also try the i5 NUC with Exacq and Dahua's PSS software for some comparison.

Razer, which version of Exacq do you recommend? (Start, Pro, Edge?)

Thank you everyone! Will update once I have done some testing.

 

[Razer]

You only need that Start version, that should work just fine for your needs. Remember, you can get a fully functional version that will never expire for one camera to try out for no cost at all. It is available as a download directly from them after you fill out some info they will send you the username and password you need. If you need info let me know.

Sounds like you have a good plan of attack, trying out more that one solution is what I'd recommend to anyone so they are happy with their choice in the end!

As a note, I just got an exacq system ready for 20 3mp cameras. I went with 5tb and an i3 with 4gb of ram, it will be more than enough. There are plans to add 12-16 more in the future too!

-EDIT- I just ordered another i5 NUC just a few minutes ago and I will be using this setup in a small box at construction sites. I will be connecting it in the next week or two (waiting on power to the pole) and putting on two 3mp Hik bullets and one 2mp PTZ Hik camera also. It will run headless just like you have ideas of doing so I will be able to share some real numbers from an i5 NUC server here shortly with Exacq.

 

[Dudealicious]

Since this thread has beed dead for 3 weeks now I'll toss in another scenario. I'm was running 2 cams on BI on a Mac mini (running XP) and since adding 2 additional cameras it started choking. So I too am looking to upgrade my CPU. 2 - 1080p & 2 - 720p recording 24/7. Suggestions on CPU would be great. I'd like to cap the budget out at ~$500-$600.
Curious to see how Razer's i5 NUC worked out.
Thanks
Bob

 

[fenderman]

Welcome to the forum! If you are looking for super small form factor..check these out http://outlet.lenovo.com/outlet_us/itemdetails/10AAX01100/445
If you dont mind something a bit bigger consider hp elitedesk http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-EliteDesk-800-G1-USDT-1-x-Core-i5-4570-2-9-GHz-RAM-4-GB-HDD-320-GB-/261668494158?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item3ceca85b4e there are slim, ultra slim, or tower...

 

[Razer]

Sorry for the late reply but I did get it in and working finally. I ran into an odd issue when installing where I could not see any video remotely on this machine when ran headless, I had to take a monitor and connect it so that I could get video over a VNC connection. Odd, but it is now up and running but I am not currently recording as the guy installing it forgot to take the external hard drive..... I would play with the video thing more except for this computer is installed halfway up a light pole about 3 hours away one way.

I was just testing the CPU usage, I have three cameras connected; two 3mp Hikvision running in 2mp mode for the wider angle view and one 2mp Hikvision PTZ. When I VNC in and have the client closed but the service running in the background it uses about 1-3% of the CPU. When I connect to the web client remotely the CPU there goes to about 17% when viewing all three cameras. When viewing a single camera it is 7-10%, jumps around a lot which is the variable bit rate working over the web I assume.

If I open the client on the machine remotely over VNC, and look at all three cameras, and keep the web client also open for the same three cameras I use about 55-60% of the CPU. This is as high as I can get usage, I guess I could connect a few machines to the web view to get it higher.

If I only have the client running with all three cameras up I use 32% of the CPU. One camera open in the client is 10-11%.

Normal day to day usage with the client closed as it is normally will be that basic 1-3% usage is all I will have on there, not bad at all. Even when viewing the cameras over the web as it is used 99% of the time we will never go above 20%. Once I get the recording working more completely I will test the CPU usage when remotely pulling footage in my Exacq client here to see what that does to it. Overall for a small system it is doing pretty good!

 

[Razer]

The next machine I'll be building and testing is this:

http://promotions.newegg.com/msi/14-5222/index.html?icid=278907

Specifically the model below:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=56-167-069

I will be using a i5-4460 and 4-8gb of ram, a Samsung SSD for the OS drive and a western digital purple 3tb drive. That will come in under $700 and should be a great powerful NVR. It is a small machine, but a decent size power supply and room for a video car and something PCI if needed. I need the small size quite often so that too is a great feature for me anyway. I have the parts on the way and will see how this goes here soon.

 

[IPCamDude]

Hi guys,

Sorry for the late reply -- life has a funny way of keeping you busy!

Just wanted to come back with an update on my setup and what has worked and what hasn't worked so far.

So instead of using 6 Dahua IPC-HFW4300S cameras as I had stated in my original post, I ended up adding two more for a total of 8 cameras.

I tried running the original 6 on an Intel NUC (i5) with Blue Iris and it kept crashing continuously. It was just way too much for the chip in the NUC to keep up with. Even when it was not crashing, the amount of lag and stuttering made it a poor solution. I've read on here that the very latest version of Blue Iris (ver 3.65.00) is better on CPU usage but I haven't had a chance to try the NUC with that yet. For the NUC test, all cameras were set to 3 MP quality, recording on motion, 10 fps.

I also tried it on a i7-4790 desktop with all 8 cameras and it has been working very nicely on Blue Iris. Quality is set to 3 MP, 10 fps, and set to record on motion. It is common for 4 zones to be triggered/recording at the same time and at that time I see CPU usage shoot up to around 50-60% but not higher. I am thinking of trying out the other options for recording software but so far I am really happy with Blue Iris on the desktop setup.

I purchased a 12U server cabinet that I wall mounted in a ventilated closet and I placed the desktop inside there along with the other networking equipment I purchased for the building. The desktop doesn't rack mount, but it sits at the bottom of the server cabinet and has plenty of room for exhausting any hot air.

Here's a few pics of the setup, sorry for the poor phone picture quality...

 

[Dudealicious]

So I scooped up one of the Lenovo's that Fenderman recommended and boy what a difference. The M93p tiny. Not only was it only $337 + tax/shipping etc, (think I lucked out and bought when they were on mega-sale) but man what a small little computer. Compared to the Mac Mini I was using, the amount of processor being used up by BI is nearly 80% less. Great suggestion. I had it configured with a SSD and 16 gigs of RAM for good measure and recording to a multi TB external WD Purple HDD via one of the many USB 3.0 ports.

Just one additional question. This thing came preloaded with Windows 7 and the option to bump it up to 8 if I want to. Is there any benefit of running BI on 8 as opposed to 7?
Thanks

 

[fenderman]

Hey, glad you got in on the deal (it was a big sale, those things are super solid)..i dont think there is any benefit to 8....i dont mind 8 with classic shell..8 is a bit quicker and more secure, but since its dedicated to NVR use, i would just leave it..maybe wait and see if they give out 10 for free ..