Cameras And Fields Of View For IP POE Home Security System

[JFire]

A 4mm would work..but the subject is so close to the camera that a 2.8 will work just as well and give you some more coverage if you need it.

I'll test the location with my 2.8 before I order thank you

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[fenderman]

I'll test the location with my 2.8 before I order thank you

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That is a good idea. If you are unsure, I always recommend buying one of each first. Then testing them in each location. That way you know for certain.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Camera placement is more important in a door camera than the extra pixels per square foot that a 4mm gives over a 2.8mm. I also like my door cams providing a wide view of yard and driveway. It makes it easy to check one cam to see what's going on. I use 6mm on cars parked close to the house in the driveway but their coverage is quite limited within 6-8 feet so not much good for covering, say, a face, door, porch stairs, etc. 4mm isn't a bad choice for doorways either and can be better than 2.8mm in some instances.

It's good advice to get one of each and try them, particularly at night. Even if you end up with an extra cam, you could mount it pointing down at the door and packages on the ground. I'd probably put the main one near face level under the light on the handle side of the storm door. Also, you've already narrowed the choice to turret or bullet. Glare from what looks like two entryway lights close by will possibly interfere with a dome. A bullet would be more likely to get bumped out of position than a turret when mounted that low in a high traffic position.

 

[JFire]

@Kawboy12R if you look at my picture I'm going to mount a 2.8 dome either on the wall or the soffit to right side of the green awning. The wall gives me the 6-8 feet I've seen reccomended but I'm worried about ir bouncing off the brick. Shouldn't I just place on soffit?

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[Sichuan]

Post deleted by OP.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Easiest place to mount the door camera is under the soffit at the yellow dot and have it pointing angled towards the green awning at maybe 30-45 degrees or so to cover the walk up to the door and part of the driveway. Looks like the handle to the storm door is on the side of the door closest to the yellow dot, forcing folks to go right under it. Looks like it'd be more of a pain to mount the cam under the light under the yellow dot on the brick wall although that'd give the best face shot, particularly with folks looking down while (I assume) climbing a few stops onto the level of the door. 2.8mm would be sufficient for folks walking right up to the door but might be kinda wide and have uneven lighting from IR light reflecting from the bracing beside the front door. Try both 2.8 and 4 there to see what you prefer.

What's the job of the camera you said you wanted to mount to the right of the green awning under the soffit at I assume the red dot? It'd probably have to point in the direction of the car if that's where someone regularly parks because the green awning would be blocking it if pointed to the left and it looks like there's bracing in the way that would block it from being a good front door cam, plus you'd mostly get side/read angles of someone walking up to your door from the red dot. For the red dot to be a car-parked-on-the-road cam, probably a 6-8mm or varifocal lens job. I'd only add a 2.8mm at the red dot as a "what happened" cam for things on the street and to the right of the yellow dot cam. It's too wide for a "whodunnit" cam for cars parked on the street and a bad angle/location/distance for a front door cam, particularly at 2.8mm. A dome should be decent mounted protected under the soffit close to the wall but up there I'd probably pick a turret or bullet anyway. I wouldn't worry about reflection from the brick if a dome was mounted to the brick (it'd have to be pointed out from the house), but rain covering the dome and screwing up the built-in IR or IR reflections from the awning or drainpipe causing glare or uneven lighting, depending on where it's pointed. Turrets are much less susceptible to reflected IR light than domes and aren't blinded almost completely when it rains on them like domes with IR.

And sorry for the delay replying, I wanted to cut and add dots to your pic and my spare time fiddling with IPCT lately has often been on my phone. This was my first chance on a computer when I remembered it.

 

[JFire]

@Kawboy12R the red dot is going to be looking right down the front of the house/street etc. There will be a mini ptz on the right corner of the house,on a corner mount. I'll use that for close coverage of car/cars. My concern with turrets are people physically turning them but I guess if they do that you have a pretty good face shot.

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[Kawboy12R]

If they're going to go right up and screw with your cameras there's not much you can do. A can of spray paint will blind a dome, turret, or bullet. A turret or bullet IS more susceptible to fiddling by hand than a dome though. Domes are tougher and can be vandal proof, but personally I think the accidental basketball resistance of a dome is more likely to be useful in a home installation. If someone's scoping out your home and planning things in advance, a simple ski mask or a nylon will foil things before they're even in spray paint, baseball bat, or hand twisting range. There's no law that says they're going to play fair. Cams work best against the stupid unprepared ones that don't even notice they're there.

 

[Sichuan]

I have one final question. I need to select a soffit mounted (8 ft. above ground level) camera that will allow me to identify someone at my front entry door. I don't mean "facial recognition" as it applies to using software to identify someone already in a database. One of my other planned soffit located cameras, which will be used to view part of the front yard, will also allow me to view this stoop area. However, I want a closer view of the stoop area, which is appx 6 ft. X 6 ft. and 8 ft. high. This view can be seen in the two links at the end of this post. I don't want a PTZ or an auto tracking camera. I want to use a LTS soffit mounted CMIP11XX series turret (which are limited to 2.8MM and 4MM), which could give me a side view or a frontal view depending on its placement, a LTS mounted bullet (4.1MP 2.8MM to 12MM Motorized Varifocal Lens), which could be mounted on the soffit or the neighbor's tree, or a different LTS camera if you have a recommendation. I don't want to put a bullet above the entry door for obvious reasons. The length of the soffit on this side of the front of the house is 45 ft. The total length of the front of the house is 70 ft. but I can only get a view of the entry door from the left side, as you are looking at the picture, due to the offset of the right side. If I mount the camera on the soffit just above the entry door it would give me a distance of only a few feet to someone approaching the door.

Which camera would you recommend?

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/Sichuan1350/Hikvision IP POE Security System/North Side Of House Photo 01.jpg

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv175/Sichuan1350/Hikvision IP POE Security System/North Side Of House Photo 03 Entry Door.jpg

 

[Kawboy12R]

Seems to me that the yellow dot would be a great location for either a 2.8 or 4mm fixed turret. I don't know the LTS numbers and their Hik equivalents offhand though. 2.8 is a bit wider but 4mm would give a better chance at, say, reading name tags of your delivery folks. Both lengths would be fine at giving good face shots of anybody on the stoop. My preference is the 4mp turret over the older 2-3mp stuff, but apparently the newer 2 and 3mp wide dynamic range gear is a bit better at night than the 4mp stuff.

 

[Sichuan]

View attachment 8981

Seems to me that the yellow dot would be a great location for either a 2.8 or 4mm fixed turret. I don't know the LTS numbers and their Hik equivalents offhand though. 2.8 is a bit wider but 4mm would give a better chance at, say, reading name tags of your delivery folks. Both lengths would be fine at giving good face shots of anybody on the stoop. My preference is the 4mp turret over the older 2-3mp stuff, but apparently the newer 2 and 3mp wide dynamic range gear is a bit better at night than the 4mp stuff.

Thank you, kawboy, for your prompt reply. That's just the information I was looking for. I was thinking of using a 4.1MP 2.8MM turret for the stoop area but I think your suggestion of a 4MM turret is the way to go. That particular location you suggest will also give me excellent coverage of a small part of the front lawn that was not covered by any of the other cameras. The LTS CMIP1142W-28 is a 4.1MP 2.8MM lens turret and the CMIP1142W is a 4.1MP 4MM lens turret. I've already configured 8 of the 1142W-28 turrets, 5 of them on the soffits to cover the front and rear yard areas, 1 in the basement to cover the basement windows and stairs, 1 in the garage to cover the man door, the garage windows and an entry door into the house and 1 in the dining room positioned in such a way that it will capture anyone coming into my home from any of the three entry doors. I've configured 4 CMIP9142W bullets (4.1MP 4MM lens), 3 of them mounted on trees and and 1 mounted on a soffit. They will cover the two side yards and all the doors and windows of the house from outside. I've configured 1 bullet, CMIP9743W-SZ (4.1MP 2.8MM to 12MM Motorized Varifocal Lens), mounted on a tree, for static coverage of part of the back yard and to cover a sliding patio door and garage man door on the back side of the house. I can use the varifocal lens camera to zoom in on the patio and garage man doors when necessary. I'll add a CMIP1142W turret (4.1MP 4MM lens) at the stoop location you advised. With the exception of the CMIP9743W-SZ varifocal lens bullet, all the cameras I've configured have Matrix IR lighting, IR cut filter with auto switch and 120 db True WDR, although the CMIP9743W-SZ does have the IR cut filter with auto switch and 120db True WDR. All the cameras also have motion detection, tampering alarm and network disconnect alarm.

Many people will consider a 14 camera IP POE security system to be overkill for a residence but I believe they'll think otherwise if they are unfortunate enough to experience a breaking and entering as I have, which is the reason I'm installing the system. I hadn't thought much of it before but once I experienced it I realized that it's a violation of my privacy and a threat to the safety of my wife and stepson. I don't want to experience it again. As you stated in one of your earlier posts, any security system can be easily overcome, on the outside, by experienced criminals who mask their identities and disable the cameras in one way or another but the motion detection, tampering alarm and network disconnect alarm will give me a heads up. The tree mounted cameras will alert me before anyone can get close to the electric service as the electric service for the entire neighborhood is buried until it reaches the homes. I doubt very seriously that anyone will notice the bullet cameras in the trees. I'll also be aware of any intruders once they're inside, before they can get to any of the interior cameras and disable them. I've already installed deadbolts on the garage man door, all entry doors, all bedroom doors and the basemen door. All windows already have vibration/breakage alarms.

Thank you again kawboy. I really do appreciate it.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Good luck and don't forget an alatm system, preferably one with cellular callout for notifications.

 

[Sichuan]

Good luck and don't forget an alatm system, preferably one with cellular callout for notifications.

Thanks, kawboy. I currently have an alarm system that covers all the entry doors and has motion, carbon monoxide, smoke and heat detectors. It has a siren on the top of the house that's loud enough to wake the dead. I know this because I accidentally set it off one day when I was playing with the system. It was already installed when I moved into the house eight years ago. Unfortunately, although it's fully functional it's not connected to any monitoring service. It wasn't activated when the breaking and entering occurred because I've never been able to figure out how to configure new passwords for it and activate it, even though I located the PDF for it online. It's an old alarm system. It was installed in 1971 when the house was built. I plan to replace it with a new wireless system. Due to its age I simply don't trust it and due to my own procrastination and ignorance I haven't yet replaced it. Like they say, "you can't fix stupid". I'll replace it this week. Thanks for the nudge.

 

[spencnor]

Camera placement is more important in a door camera than the extra pixels per square foot that a 4mm gives over a 2.8mm. I also like my door cams providing a wide view of yard and driveway. It makes it easy to check one cam to see what's going on. I use 6mm on cars parked close to the house in the driveway but their coverage is quite limited within 6-8 feet so not much good for covering, say, a face, door, porch stairs, etc. 4mm isn't a bad choice for doorways either and can be better than 2.8mm in some instances.

It's good advice to get one of each and try them, particularly at night. Even if you end up with an extra cam, you could mount it pointing down at the door and packages on the ground. I'd probably put the main one near face level under the light on the handle side of the storm door. Also, you've already narrowed the choice to turret or bullet. Glare from what looks like two entryway lights close by will possibly interfere with a dome. A bullet would be more likely to get bumped out of position than a turret when mounted that low in a high traffic position.

I installed my cameras in stages. The first purchase was one each 2.8mm and 4mm lens to get an idea of their real world field of view installed. I then purchased 4 more 4mm cameras and installed them on the other sides of my house. I found that I was not happy with the FOV of the 2 cameras located next to the front and side doors. i aimed these door cameras more downward so I could see any package deliveries at the bottom of the doors. This downward aim limited the area of coverage. Therefore, I relocated the cams away from the doors so the cameras would be looking AT the doors with a wider view. I liked this frontal view better because I could see the entire door and porch. I do plan on adding some sort of door "intercom" camera with a mic and speaker right next to the front door. I subsequently replaced one of the 4mm cams with a 2.8mm cam to widen my coverage at one location. In short , what I'm saying is plan on making some adjustments to your initial plan.

On a side note, there was a burglary two weeks ago four houses up from my house. My two front house cams caught the suspect car crossing my house 8 times in 40 minutes at the time of the burglary. Unfortunately, I could not make out the license plate with the 4mm cams. So I just bought the MiniPtz-10X cam and plan on installing it in front as a license reader.

 

[JFire]

So far i have 2, 2.8s and a mini ptz currently in shipment. I think my next 2 are going to be 4421AS just not sure on 2.8 or 4mm.


Here's the view from my 2.8mm. The mini ptz will be on the far corner

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[tangent]

It's an old alarm system. It was installed in 1971 when the house was built. I plan to replace it with a new wireless system. Due to its age I simply don't trust it and due to my own procrastination and ignorance I haven't yet replaced it. Like they say, "you can't fix stupid". I'll replace it this week. Thanks for the nudge.

I was reading your thread as I ponder some lens size and placement choices of my own. I know this is an old thread and you may have already replaced it, but a WIRED/Hybrid alarm upgrade might be the more natural choice. You've already got hardwired sensors... Something like a DSC PC-1832 or Honeywell Vista 20p with a keypad receiver.

The wires in the wall don't go bad unless somebody drives a nail through them or cuts them during a window install. The contact/sensors and splices/connections can fail but are pretty reliable. It will take you a little longer to test and evaluate the state of existing components, but it will work and look better. You also may already be wired for multiple keypads.

Carbon monoxide alarms weren't really around before the 1990's, so one was added later if it's connected to the alarm at all. If it was still in service in the 90's I doubt the panel dates to 1971.

 

[Sichuan]

... Something like a DSC PC-1832 or Honeywell Vista 20p with a keypad receiver.

Actually, I did some research a couple of years ago when I was thinking about reprogramming the keypad password. The alarm still works because I accidentally set it off one day while fooling around with it. There's a siren on the roof and it's loud enough to wake the dead. There are sensors in place for the four entry doors and they all function properly. There's also a functional heat detector in the basement. The unit is a National Guardian Detection System Model 7090. I don't need to have it associated with any alarm company or to have it notify the local police department. However, I can't seem to determine how to reset the password, even with the National Guardian PDF I found online.

I haven't replaced it with a wireless alarm system because quite frankly, I find them to be lacking in one way or another and I find the monthly fees to be excessive. I haven't yet installed my IP POE system either because I've been terribly busy with trimming six huge Oak trees, cutting the wood for a neighbor's fireplace, cleaning up the mess, redoing all the flower and shrubbery beds around the house and planting dozens of new flowers and shrubs. I have determined the cameras I need and I'll be ready to order them as soon as I get caught up with other things on my list.

I'll be using the LTS Model LTN8932-P16 NVR. The LTS cameras I'll be using are:

CMIP1142W-28 (4.1MP 2.8MM Lens Turret)=7
CMIP1142W (4.1MP 4MM Lens Turret)=1
CMIP9142W (4.1MP 4MM Lens Bullet)=5
CMIP9743W-SZ (4.1MP 2.8MM to 12MM Motorized Varifocal Lens Bullet)=1

The number of cameras may seem excessive to some people but I have a lot of property to cover and due to the design of the house there will be blind spots if I reduce the number of cameras. I may be able to reduce the number of CMIP1142W-28 turrets from 7 to 4 so I'll order 4 of them to begin with. The other cameras are necessary and can't be reduced or eliminated.

 

[tangent]

Actually, I did some research a couple of years ago when I was thinking about reprogramming the keypad password. The alarm still works because I accidentally set it off one day while fooling around with it. There's a siren on the roof and it's loud enough to wake the dead. There are sensors in place for the four entry doors and they all function properly. There's also a functional heat detector in the basement. The unit is a National Guardian Detection System Model 7090. I don't need to have it associated with any alarm company or to have it notify the local police department. However, I can't seem to determine how to reset the password, even with the National Guardian PDF I found online.

I haven't replaced it with a wireless alarm system because quite frankly, I find them to be lacking in one way or another and I find the monthly fees to be excessive. I haven't yet installed my IP POE system either because I've been terribly busy with trimming six huge Oak trees, cutting the wood for a neighbor's fireplace, cleaning up the mess, redoing all the flower and shrubbery beds around the house and planting dozens of new flowers and shrubs. I have determined the cameras I need and I'll be ready to order them as soon as I get caught up with other things on my list.

I'll be using the LTS Model LTN8932-P16 NVR. The LTS cameras I'll be using are:

CMIP1142W-28 (4.1MP 2.8MM Lens Turret)=7
CMIP1142W (4.1MP 4MM Lens Turret)=1
CMIP9142W (4.1MP 4MM Lens Bullet)=5
CMIP9743W-SZ (4.1MP 2.8MM to 12MM Motorized Varifocal Lens Bullet)=1

The number of cameras may seem excessive to some people but I have a lot of property to cover and due to the design of the house there will be blind spots if I reduce the number of cameras. I may be able to reduce the number of CMIP1142W-28 turrets from 7 to 4 so I'll order 4 of them to begin with. The other cameras are necessary and can't be reduced or eliminated.

Here are 2 manuals I found:
http://www.panelguides.com/index.php?option=com_jdownloads&Itemid=13&task=finish&cid=581&catid=329
http://www.panelguides.com/index.php?option=com_jdownloads&Itemid=13&task=finish&cid=579&catid=328
Most alarms have a way the installer can lock the panel so that short of connecting an eeprom programmer or knowing their install code nobody can do anything to the panel. If it isn't locked out, you can apparently get in by "shorting the program mode contactor for 2 seconds"

BUT... my whole point was you don't need to and should want to. You just swap the panel and keypad for something new, maybe a DSC PowerSeries Neo. You just have to figure out if the current panel uses EOLR. thier value, and if they're in the panel or the by the sensors. Also learn the difference between bell, speaker, and siren as alarm panels are concerned verify the new panel can power/drive the existing one or replace it. Sirens are best where they can be heard outside the building. Something modern with a full alpha keypad is so much nicer to program, DSC panels are also very nice to program with their software if you can get.

I think you mentioned plunger / roller switches? These wear over time and can become unreliable, magnetic reed switches are more reliable. It may be prudent to replace some of your alarm contacts but it's easy. Hardwired contacts and sensors are cheaper than wireless.