Camera for end of 1000' driveway ? WiFi? Ethernet? Other?

TundraCam

Young grasshopper
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
49
Reaction score
20
Location
Minnesota
We have about an 800' driveway from an outbuilding (w/ Ethernet Switch) to the road and given recent stolen mail incidents we are thinking a camera down there wouldn't be a bad idea. We do have 120v power at the road end. It is somewhat heavily treed. This is MN so temps of -20°f are common in winter so any equipment at the driveway end would need to be OK with that.

Most urgent question is if I should get an ethernet or something in the trench before it's closed up.

1) Ethernet.
We have a trench between the outbuilding and the end of the driveway for irrigation and landscape lighting that I can possibly stick an ethernet run in before they close it up. The question would be what cable and what extenders to use.

2) Radio. I could possibly do a radio shot w/ an AirMAX of some sort but would rather avoid that if possible.

3) WiFi. This would certainly be pushing the limits I think. But might work?

4) Combination. Stick a POE powered AP in a tree about 300' from the outbuilding to make for a 500' WiFi link.

Any advice on this would be greatly welcomed.

Thanks,
 

TonyR

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
17,516
Reaction score
40,790
Location
Alabama
If it were me, I'd go with a Ubiquiti PtP bridge setup, using 2.4 Ghz.
According to specs the Nanostation 2 (NSM2) is OK @ -30 to 75° C (-22 to 167° F), so I'd wager any of UBNT's radios would be OK.

Quicker, cheaper and if your LOS is good enough, you'll be satisfied. I know down here where the lightning is fierce I''d go wireless....but if I was going to trench 800 feet I'd go with direct burial-rated fiberoptic cable in PVC conduit.
 

bradner

Getting comfortable
Joined
Aug 15, 2019
Messages
426
Reaction score
757
Location
PNW
I do something similar with my place - only very slightly similar. Having power there is a huge plus but do you have room for some stealth equipment? I have a shop150ft away from my home, what I did is:
  • use Ubiquiti LocoM2's to beam a signal from my house to my shop roof
  • ran an ethernet line from the shop LocoM2 to a Ubiquiti POE switch in my shop
  • run POE cameras off of that
Now I know space concerns would be an issue with hiding a small POE switch (could use a relatively tiny USW-Flex poe switch) but if you could do that then you could have many, many camera options including multiple cameras. Having AC power at the end of the driveway just opens up so many options. I'd never even think of running a cable down it unless you didn't care about cost - then I'd do fiber as Tony mentioned.

Or.....put the POE switch 150ft back from the end of the driveway (easier to hide there) and then run one line from that to a USW-Flex (I use three of them at home mounted on telephone poles) and then you can run up to 4 POE cams off of it with an 60-80 watt input to it......
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,503
Reaction score
27,704
Location
New Jersey
Use either an RF link, like the Ubiquity mentioned, or a fiber optic cable. Electrical isolation is important to prevent surges from lightning, as an example, from damaging all the equipment or ground loops caused by difference in soil conditions (ground resistance). If the trench is open I'd put a 3/4" PVC conduit in, complete with a pull rope, now. That way if you try the RF link and it won't work due to signal loss from trees, you have a backup method already to go and it could also support an intercom if you have a gate.
 

TundraCam

Young grasshopper
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
49
Reaction score
20
Location
Minnesota
I'd love to stick a conduit in that trench for future use but at nearly $1/ft I think my boss says I'll have to pass :)

A NanoStation seems the ideal solution. Thanks for that. I should also be able to stick a Nano Switch on it if needed for additional cameras but I think for now we just want one. Any idea how critical line of sight is for the NSM2? Quick Start mentions professional install several times, any idea how critical that is or mostly just COA?
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,503
Reaction score
27,704
Location
New Jersey
The clearer the line of sight the better. Installing isn't hard at all and aligning shouldn't be too hard. There are signal strength meters on the equipment at both ends as well as one in the software. Give it a good "eyeball" shot, then a good rifle style aim and fine tune with the signal strength meters. They are good for a few kilometers so 800 feet shouldn't be too much trouble at all.

PVC conduit, 3/4", is .83/ft at Home Depot. If you go to a real electrical supply it should be cheaper buying 800 feet in one shot.

 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
1,090
Reaction score
853
Location
Colorado
You could also drop in direct burial fiber cable (something with 4+ fibers pre-terminated), combined with a POE switch at the far end and a media converter (fiber to ethernet), but covering that distance the cost is definitely going to be higher than a couple RF links, probably about $1000 ?

The good news is having power at the other end is a HUGE WIN, compared to so many people stuck trying to cover that distance using extended POE or something.
 

Teken

Known around here
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Messages
1,738
Reaction score
3,080
Location
Canada
Boy it seems like with an open trench you sure ought to put something in it.
I agree once you break 200 feet never mind 800 feet?!? Makes sense to consider shielded CAT-6, fibre, 12-2 wire. Like others since 120 VAC is present going with PtP wireless is an easy choice.

No worries about induced EMF on the cable but don’t think for a minute proper earth grounding and the use of SPD / TVSS is not important!
 

fred583

Young grasshopper
Joined
Dec 26, 2020
Messages
38
Reaction score
13
Location
Charlotte, NC
...No worries about induced EMF on the cable but don’t think for a minute proper earth grounding and the use of SPD / TVSS is not important!
I hear a lot about not running Ethernet cable parallel with 120V in a house. I have a similar situation outside but only 250'. Are you saying I could put both in the same trench? In my case it is Dahua ePoE CAT-6 Riser/Shielded F/UTP and 12/2 or 10/2 UF copper 120V wire. Would using two smaller PVC conduits be better than having them mingle in one larger conduit? I assume twisting them together is a bad idea? But who knows, I only have an LE degree (Lectrical Engineering).
 

sebastiantombs

Known around here
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,503
Reaction score
27,704
Location
New Jersey
High voltage and low voltage cable can't be comingled in the same conduit/raceway/enclosure. The exception is a fiber optic cable because it's not conductive. I would really try to avoid running copper for network over that distance given the likelihood of surges and ground potential differences causing some really bad problems.
 

Flintstone61

Known around here
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
6,708
Reaction score
11,108
Location
Minnesota USA
Drop Fiber in the Trench. You won’t regret it. With Copper you will have regrets.
Get the armor clad stuff. It’ll be there until the Sun envelops the Earth as a Red Giant in a few billion years.
 
Last edited:

Teken

Known around here
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Messages
1,738
Reaction score
3,080
Location
Canada
I hear a lot about not running Ethernet cable parallel with 120V in a house. I have a similar situation outside but only 250'. Are you saying I could put both in the same trench? In my case it is Dahua ePoE CAT-6 Riser/Shielded F/UTP and 12/2 or 10/2 UF copper 120V wire. Would using two smaller PVC conduits be better than having them mingle in one larger conduit? I assume twisting them together is a bad idea? But who knows, I only have an LE degree (Lectrical Engineering).
As the other member noted NEC / CEC prohibits 120 VAC and low voltage to be inside the same conduit. Depending upon where you live and electrical code cycle you follow 120 VAC / Low Voltage either can or can’t be in the same trench. Some call out both must be enclosed in a conduit based on depth.

While others don’t care either way and simply use direct burial cable spaced 18” apart from one another.

You break 50’ of any metal wire you’ve created a large antenna. You break 200 feet never mind 800 feet you best get ready to accept that collect call from God.

You live in lightning alley?!?

That collect call is coming at least three times during the summer.

Given the drop in prices for optical fibre cable and media converters. It makes a lot more sense to install fibre. The only thing I’ll say is don’t cheap out on using conduit if rodents of any kind are present.

Using armoured fibre cable only goes so far when ground hogs and other large rodents are present never mind tree roots!

I was on site about 15 years ago and the client said the head end was broken. I asked them if there was ever a service loop and he said yes! Each side has ten feet of slack yet both ends were pulled tight to the switch and media converter?!?

When I came on site it was clear they remounted the switch closer to the penetration point. I asked was this switch always there and they said no it was five feet to the left?!?

I said your telling me over ten years you’ve moved both devices closer to the entry hole and never wondered why the cable was disappearing?!?

What happen???

The site trenched more than 1K worth of cable and the tree roots from all the hundreds of trees pushed the cable everywhere taking up the slack!

20 feet of cable slowly being pulled everywhere. That’s why fibre cable must be housed in a conduit of specific depth based on the environmental conditions. This is also why proper rock & sand fill must be used especially if there is lots of ground movement along with flag tape.
 

looney2ns

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
Messages
15,693
Reaction score
23,148
Location
Evansville, In. USA
As the other member noted NEC / CEC prohibits 120 VAC and low voltage to be inside the same conduit. Depending upon where you live and electrical code cycle you follow 120 VAC / Low Voltage either can or can’t be in the same trench. Some call out both must be enclosed in a conduit based on depth.

While others don’t care either way and simply use direct burial cable spaced 18” apart from one another.

You break 50’ of any metal wire you’ve created a large antenna. You break 200 feet never mind 800 feet you best get ready to accept that collect call from God.

You live in lightning alley?!?

That collect call is coming at least three times during the summer.

Given the drop in prices for optical fibre cable and media converters. It makes a lot more sense to install fibre. The only thing I’ll say is don’t cheap out on using conduit if rodents of any kind are present.

Using armoured fibre cable only goes so far when ground hogs and other large rodents are present never mind tree roots!

I was on site about 15 years ago and the client said the head end was broken. I asked them if there was ever a service loop and he said yes! Each side has ten feet of slack yet both ends were pulled tight to the switch and media converter?!?

When I came on site it was clear they remounted the switch closer to the penetration point. I asked was this switch always there and they said no it was five feet to the left?!?

I said your telling me over ten years you’ve moved both devices closer to the entry hole and never wondered why the cable was disappearing?!?

What happen???

The site trenched more than 1K worth of cable and the tree roots from all the hundreds of trees pushed the cable everywhere taking up the slack!

20 feet of cable slowly being pulled everywhere. That’s why fibre cable must be housed in a conduit of specific depth based on the environmental conditions. This is also why proper rock & sand fill must be used especially if there is lots of ground movement along with flag tape.
Makes an airmax look better all the time.
 

IReallyLikePizza2

Known around here
Joined
May 14, 2019
Messages
1,918
Reaction score
4,503
Location
Houston
You can do this with direct burial Cat 6 if that helps


I've used it at a customer job, PoE at 700ft, linked up at 1G and worked fine
 

CCTVCam

Known around here
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
2,705
Reaction score
3,563
You could look towards MDPE (Mains Diameter Polethylene) water pipe as an alternative to trunking. It's quite cheap, very tough (hard to cut - requires a hacksaw), thick walled and being designed to carry water, both it and any fittings are waterproof. It's usually blue but there is black. I haven't used this for any kind of siganl cable, can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. From UK prices, which are usually extortionate, it looks as if the 1 inch diameter pipe works out around 60 cents per metre based on a 100m length. Obviously the longer the roll generally the cheaper it becomes. You need to check the internal diameter of any joining fittings vs the cable diameter to ensure it not only fits but has enough room to allow you to pull. The good news is as well as 1 inch (25mm), it also comes in 32mm (1 1/4?) and 50mm (2 inch) diameters albeit at greater cost,
 

pete_c

Getting comfortable
Joined
Jul 30, 2019
Messages
620
Reaction score
692
Location
Time
A few years back built a brick structure for my mail box.

Ran 12VDC, 120 VAC switched and always on power, two network cables and wired in under driveway sensors (Cartel) except that it was not 1000 feet. It would be easy to extend the network to 1000 feet using fiber.

Here were views from the camera to the house. I also had a corner under eave camera and one between the garage doors facing the driveway.

I used the pvc irrigation pipes for my chases. I asked to help when the irrigation lines were being installed and then ran "blank" pvc pipes in a radial fashion from the house out to the edges of the property. This was before building the mailbox around 2013 in old house.

I put a dome camera on the opposite side of the mailbox facing the house. It was a new IP camera board mounted inside of an analogue dome camera shell (metal and glass).

mailbox.jpg

maibox-camera.jpg
 
Last edited:
Top