Building new home - suggestions on camera locations

[ah6tyfour]

Hi everyone! I was on this forum a few years ago when I was planning wiring an older home that never worked out. Now, instead, I'm purchasing new construction and am putting in camera prewiring before the walls go up.

I was talking to the structured wiring guy today and he gave some ideas, but mostly he was just agreeing with me since it's my new home. Although what I really wanted was to get his input and critique. I'm not sure how knowledgeable he is though, so I figured I'd ask here. He sent the plans in the wrong orientation so now I'm realizing our plan might not work out and need to be redesigned. They also place camera points at a standard 10-12 feet high, but I can request them at any height. I think 8.5 feet might be a good compromise?

I was originally aiming for 4 cameras, but expanded it to 7. It's seven because they sell their CAT6 drops in packs of four and I needed some interior ones as well to act as ethernet ports for wired internet. So I can either figure out the best seven spots or I'd expand four additional spots for a total of 11. I can add a single CAT6 drop, but it's $200 while adding four is a total of $450. I also asked and they can only add CAT6 to the structure itself. They can't bury cable and have wiring for cameras along the block walls, fencing, at the mailbox, or anything besides on the physical building. They can add a camera point to the frame of the exterior covered patio including on the far edge.

I'd also like to not have TOO many cameras. Trying to balance aesthetics with usability and also deterrent. For deterrent purposes, maybe I should have another camera visible from the front of the house.

Mapping out the seven spots so far, I can tell the cameras near the back of the house are probably not in ideal locations. I have that area of backyard towards the left on the diagram that doesn't seem well covered. There's a camera within the covered patio because the tech suggested it and it was the only point he seemed pretty sure I should have. I'm not so sure though. I feel like a point just to the left of that covered patio pointing towards the left would be more useful to cover that area of the backyard.

Now that garage door openers are all wifi-enabled and I can check if my door is closed using the app, is there still utility in having a camera point in the garage?

I was also tempted to put a camera indoors at the great room so I could just get an overview of the inside when I'm out of town just for peace of mind that everything is fine. But there's something strange about having indoor cameras to me. I feel like I'd want to physically cover it and only have the lens exposed when I'm leaving for vacation.

Any critique or suggestions are welcomed. I read the Clif Notes and it said to ask user @Fastb for new construction, but I wasn't sure if that meant to send a DM or if there was a way to post in a way that person would notice. It links to a forum thread, but that thread is from 2017.

NOTE: For the diagram, I screwed up the scale. On the left side, from the back of the house where there are two camera points currently plotted to the block wall is actually 25 feet.

Thanks in advance!

 

[sebastiantombs]

Read the Cliff Notes in the WiKi at the top of the page and have a good look at the rest of the information there as well. It'll save you time, money and lots of frustration.

My general comments on camera placement are that they should be no higher that 7-1/2 feet to get identification shots. Having cameras mounted with opposing views so one camera can "watch" the other is also a good idea. For a driveway/garage situation it takes two cameras, one on each side, to provide good video of all sides and approaches to vehicles in the driveway and maybe a third in the center if it's a two car driveway/garage. The front door needs at least two and maybe three cameras. One for approach and one to watch packages, plus maybe a doorbell camera as well.

When having cable installed always have an extra cable pulled to each location. That cover getting another camera installed if necessary and gives you a spare cable should something go wrong with one during construction or with improvements. Always make certain that the wire used is copper, not copper clad aluminum, CCA. Make sure the cable is rated CMR, riser cable.

Three rules
Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

 

[mat200]

Hi everyone! I was on this forum a few years ago when I was planning wiring an older home that never worked out. Now, instead, I'm purchasing new construction and am putting in camera prewiring before the walls go up.

I was talking to the structured wiring guy today and he gave some ideas, but mostly he was just agreeing with me since it's my new home. Although what I really wanted was to get his input and critique. I'm not sure how knowledgeable he is though, so I figured I'd ask here. He sent the plans in the wrong orientation so now I'm realizing our plan might not work out and need to be redesigned. They also place camera points at a standard 10-12 feet high, but I can request them at any height. I think 8.5 feet might be a good compromise?
..

Hi @ah6tyfour

".. the structured wiring guy .. They also place camera points at a standard 10-12 feet .."

It is clear they do not really know this area.

Over cable, look at the wiki notes, look at the numerous recommendations.

Cable N+1+ per location ...

Is the framing up? or just drawing at this time?
Is there a model house?

 

[ah6tyfour]

Hi @ah6tyfour

".. thee structured wiring guy .. They also place camera points at a standard 10-12 feet .."

It is clear they do not really know this area.

Over cable, look at the wiki notes, look at the numerous recommendations.

Cable N+1+ per location ...

Is the framing up? or just drawing at this time?
Is there a model house?

Thanks! Yeah, I had a feeling he wasn't all that knowledgeable. He seemed to pass it off with a "it's your house, you worked hard to earn it, so of course we'll do it!" but without actually giving any real suggestions.

I'm looking at the wiki now and the cameras are definitely not in the best locations. But I also don't want to go overboard with cameras. I'd like a couple to stick out as deterrent, but the others to blend in. And not have the neighbors look at the house and get annoyed at the cameras if they're everywhere.

I asked about doing a double drop per location, but it got much more expensive that way. There was no way to take advantage of the 4-drop package, so it became more than double the price. I don't expect to stay in this house forever, so I'll just have to put up with a single drop to each location.

It's just a drawing for now. No framing up. Model home is up though.

 

[ah6tyfour]

Read the Cliff Notes in the WiKi at the top of the page and have a good look at the rest of the information there as well. It'll save you time, money and lots of frustration.

My general comments on camera placement are that they should be no higher that 7-1/2 feet to get identification shots. Having cameras mounted with opposing views so one camera can "watch" the other is also a good idea. For a driveway/garage situation it takes two cameras, one on each side, to provide good video of all sides and approaches to vehicles in the driveway and maybe a third in the center if it's a two car driveway/garage. The front door needs at least two and maybe three cameras. One for approach and one to watch packages, plus maybe a doorbell camera as well.

When having cable installed always have an extra cable pulled to each location. That cover getting another camera installed if necessary and gives you a spare cable should something go wrong with one during construction or with improvements. Always make certain that the wire used is copper, not copper clad aluminum, CCA. Make sure the cable is rated CMR, riser cable.

Three rules
Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Thanks, I knew 10-12 feet sounded too high. Luckily they can definitely do 7.5-8 feet up without issue.

The house comes with a Ring camera already, but I don't want to pay the monthly cloud storage fee, so it'll just be a doorbell. I'll have to see where I can add a second camera.

And unfortunately I have no control over what wire is used. It's a major national builder. So the cable is whatever they use. Can't change it even if I wanted to. I asked about running CAT6a instead of just CAT6, but they don't have that option.

 

[sebastiantombs]

CAT6 is basically overkill to begin with. Cameras all operate at well under 100MbPS. I'd just be concerned about them using CCA because it's cheaper.

As far as blending cameras, I have a total of six cameras on the front of my house, four on the house and two mounted in trees. Five of them are turrets and nobody seems to notice them at all unless they're actually looking for cameras. The doorbell is the only "obvious" one and they have become so ubiquitous that it isn't much of an attention getter either. If your trim color is white they will hardy be seen and you can always paint them to match whatever the trim color is to blend them. The two I have tree mounted are painted sort of an olive drab and are not really noticeable either, even when looking at them in profile.

 

[mat200]

Thanks! Yeah, I had a feeling he wasn't all that knowledgeable. He seemed to pass it off with a "it's your house, you worked hard to earn it, so of course we'll do it!" but without actually giving any real suggestions.

I'm looking at the wiki now and the cameras are definitely not in the best locations. But I also don't want to go overboard with cameras. I'd like a couple to stick out as deterrent, but the others to blend in. And not have the neighbors look at the house and get annoyed at the cameras if they're everywhere.

I asked about doing a double drop per location, but it got much more expensive that way. There was no way to take advantage of the 4-drop package, so it became more than double the price. I don't expect to stay in this house forever, so I'll just have to put up with a single drop to each location.

It's just a drawing for now. No framing up. Model home is up though.

Hi @ah6tyfour

It will cost you a lot more to do this after the house is finished...

Trust us, running extra cable is worth it.

"Model home is up though"

Good, grab a GoPro or Cell Phone Camera at the end of a long selfie stick and try putting up by the model home at locations you want to put your camera.

Ideally have a friend act as a subject, have them wear a baseball cap and hoodie .. if you can not get a good facial id image the camera is not placed well.

 

[ah6tyfour]

Hi @ah6tyfour

It will cost you a lot more to do this after the house is finished...

Trust us, running extra cable is worth it.

"Model home is up though"

Good, grab a GoPro or Cell Phone Camera at the end of a long selfie stick and try putting up by the model home at locations you want to put your camera.

Ideally have a friend act as a subject, have them wear a baseball cap and hoodie .. if you can not get a good facial id image the camera is not placed well.

Thanks, I'll talk to the guy about doing two drops each. For some reason with two drops per site, can't use the 4-pack and it's coded differently in their system. But in the grand scheme of things, it's not that much more.

And that's a great idea with the selfie stick. I'll have time to do that in a week or so.

I'm also thinking about maybe just covering the entire backyard with one of Dahua's panoramic cameras. I just recently saw that they exist. The concept seems cool. If it works well, I could just add one CAT6 to the back wall of the house right in the middle and have it cover the entire backyard. Do you think that might be a good option?
4x2MP IR 180° Multi-sensor Panoramic Network Bullet – Dahua Technology USA Inc (dahuasecurity.com)

 

[Holbs]

If the house is open wood framing, ready for plumbing fixtures, electrical, etc... why not save $$$ and run the cables yourself?
If I had such a fresh start, believe me...I would have all sorts of cabling done ahead of time, by myself.
Whole house audio (either for music or alexa notifications), alarm system & sensors, LED lighting wire (kitchen kickboards, under cabinets, living room cove lighting, etc), electrical window motors for drapery open/close or for blinds, wireless access points (especially if you have a 2nd floor), wiring for external IR blasters, 7.1 (or whatever the number is upto nowadays) surround sound for living room & master bedroom, coaxial ran to every room, 4 port Cat6 faceplates , 2 locations at every room (especially around smart tv and smart receiver areas).
Plan to put a camera to one day catch EVERY angle outside your house. Right now, you are just worried of 5-7 cameras. Once someone breaks into your car or home, that number will jump to 15-20 and you'll wish you had the cabling to support that many.
I actually highly advise to put a camera away from the house. I put a birdhouse hidden camera 50' from my front door on a lamp post to specifically catch facial ID as perps come close to my house hopefully BEFORE they slide on their masks or pull down hoodie.
I have nearly 50 Cat6 cables ran through out my house. I could actually use 5-8 more now that I have additional networking equip (Dahua VTH intercom units). Every year that passes, something comes up where you will wish you had a network cable a couple feet away from a device.

 

[sebastiantombs]

A panoramic view camera will give you exactly that, a wide overview of the entire yard but will be useless when it comes to identifying who did what. The camera you linked to is 8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor and will be basically blind at night which is another problem with panoramic cameras in general. Don't try to cover everything with too few cameras if you want real surveillance. Don't chase megapixels, chase sensor size instead. The sensor in that panoramic camera will work fine in a 2MP camera. At 8MP the available light is spread out over four times as many pixels rendering night or low light video useless.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

1/3" = .333" good for 720P cameras
1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet) good for 2MP cameras
1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball) good for 4MP cameras
1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round) good for 8MP cameras

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Look for reviews here on IPCT for cameras. They usually include motion video for both day and night conditions. Always look for night video and for it to be clear and blur free. Blur free needs a shutter speed, exposure, of 1/60, 16.66ms, or higher which requires an appropriately sized sensor.

 

[The Automation Guy]

If the house is open wood framing, ready for plumbing fixtures, electrical, etc... why not save $$$ and run the cables yourself?

Depending on the area, many builders will not allow you to make modifications like this because they don't want your "DIY project" to interfere with their construction. Inspections are a big reason (they don't want to fail an inspection because of an owner's DIY cable runs), but they also don't want your work interfering with the other trades (ie your wiring is put where the electrician needs to run wire, etc). There is also a limited amount of time to install wiring like this once the walls go up and before insulation goes in - especially if you wait for the other trades to finish - and they don't want you holding things up.

I would agree that doing it yourself during construction is the best choice, but it simply isn't an option many times.

Personally I would probably work over a weekend after the other trades and inspections are done (but before insulation goes in) and install as much wiring as I could and ask for forgiveness rather than permission. But that would require a little luck with the timing of everything too.

 

[Holbs]

Depending on the area, many builders will not allow you to make modifications like this because they don't want your "DIY project" to interfere with their construction. Inspections are a big reason (they don't want to fail an inspection because of an owner's DIY cable runs), but they also don't want your work interfering with the other trades (ie your wiring is put where the electrician needs to run wire, etc). There is also a limited amount of time to install wiring like this once the walls go up and before insulation goes in - especially if you wait for the other trades to finish - and they don't want you holding things up.

I would agree that doing it yourself during construction is the best choice, but it simply isn't an option many times.

ah yes...this would be true. And valid points as someone who does not know the do's/don't of pulling low voltage cable could interfere with important stuff.
Could always ask the electrician to run data cabling. Many electrical outfits will do just that. Could ask to rough in the Cat6 to the wall boxes and back to the network room area. Any person can come in after the fact and terminate them (which saves big labor hour $$$).

 

[Old Timer]

ah yes...this would be true. And valid points as someone who does not know the do's/don't of pulling low voltage cable could interfere with important stuff.
Could always ask the electrician to run data cabling. Many electrical outfits will do just that. Could ask to rough in the Cat6 to the wall boxes and back to the network room area. Any person can come in after the fact and terminate them (which saves big labor hour $$$).

Just make sure they use proper cable, and make them responsible if the cable is bad.
I don't know how many offices I have sent in to set up PCs and the cable is bad. The contractor is no where to be found,
and it's CCA cable, or worse, one time it was 2 pair telephone line.
I have started telling customers, have the data cables certified, or we will charge to re run the cables if they don't pass.

 

[Holbs]

Just make sure they use proper cable, and make them responsible if the cable is bad.
I don't know how many offices I have sent in to set up PCs and the cable is bad. The contractor is no where to be found,
and it's CCA cable, or worse, one time it was 2 pair telephone line.
I have started telling customers, have the data cables certified, or we will charge to re run the cables if they don't pass.

or looped between outlet boxes

 

[mat200]

Thanks, I'll talk to the guy about doing two drops each. For some reason with two drops per site, can't use the 4-pack and it's coded differently in their system. But in the grand scheme of things, it's not that much more.

And that's a great idea with the selfie stick. I'll have time to do that in a week or so.

I'm also thinking about maybe just covering the entire backyard with one of Dahua's panoramic cameras. I just recently saw that they exist. The concept seems cool. If it works well, I could just add one CAT6 to the back wall of the house right in the middle and have it cover the entire backyard. Do you think that might be a good option?
4x2MP IR 180° Multi-sensor Panoramic Network Bullet – Dahua Technology USA Inc (dahuasecurity.com)

Yes, you could add one of these cameras .. note, iirc they are rather pricey, so it could still be better to just get more cables pulled and add cameras as you feel you need them ..

 

[mat200]

Some quick notes:

Add more cat6 drops for cameras to the front. minimum 2 for the driveway .. one on each side of the garage at about door height.

I see some blind spots you may wish to cover. ( see the redman stick figures )

If you are parking on the street consider cameras to cover those spots ( or if you have a mail box on the street ).

at least 2 cameras by the front door - one face level, one watching the package drop zone.

Drop cat6 to the front door area .. ( I like 2+ cables down to the door bell / face level cameras - 2 cables higher to a camera that you can use to watch the package drop zone )

For me, I want at least 2 chances to get a decent facial id image of anyone coming to the front of my home.

remember the other cabling for alarms .. audio .. ethernet jacks inside .. media center, each room

 

[SouthernYankee]

My home setup

The house must have a wired alarm system, Cameras are for after the fact, they are not a primary security system. The alarm system must be wired, Break glass sensor, open door sensors, Open window sensors, loud sirens (+120db) inside and out. I also have an outside strobe light that goes off if the alarm is triggered. Alarm systems when set up correctly have almost zero false trips, that is not the case for cameras.

I have posed this multiple time.

1) the front door needs three cameras, one doorbell camera, one pointing at the package drop area, one pointing back to the front door.
2) the garage entrance Needs two cameras pointing out mounted no higher than the top of the garage door. Each side of the door.
3) the inside of the garage need two cameras one point at the garage door and one point at the house entrance
4) each entrance to the house must be covered by a camera.
5) each camera must be covered by another camera, If i can destroy a camera it must be covered, recorded by another camera.
6) in my house all public areas inside are covered, kitchen, living room, dining room, halls, game room, den
7) all outside doors are covered by a camera inside, pointing out.

 

[ah6tyfour]

Some quick notes:

Add more cat6 drops for cameras to the front. minimum 2 for the driveway .. one on each side of the garage at about door height.

I see some blind spots you may wish to cover. ( see the redman stick figures )

If you are parking on the street consider cameras to cover those spots ( or if you have a mail box on the street ).

at least 2 cameras by the front door - one face level, one watching the package drop zone.

Drop cat6 to the front door area .. ( I like 2+ cables down to the door bell / face level cameras - 2 cables higher to a camera that you can use to watch the package drop zone )

For me, I want at least 2 chances to get a decent facial id image of anyone coming to the front of my home.

remember the other cabling for alarms .. audio .. ethernet jacks inside .. media center, each room

Thank you! This is super helpful. I had been looking at how to cover that downstairs bedroom that juts out and it just seemed like there was no way to do that without the cameras looking super obvious. I agree I need to add one on the other side of the garage, but to add two more cameras to cover that bedroom would be four exposed cameras from the street and I'm worried my neighbors will think I'm some weird person.

If I'm going to add a camera point to the other side of the garage and a point to the main entry way (I already had one site planned plus a video doorbell), I guess I might as well just add another set of four points since the two points individually will cost more than putting in four. So I guess I can prewire for that room and decide if I want to use it later. Or put another point inside for an extra wifi access point.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Install cables for camera locations you would install to without worrying about what the neighbors think. You can always add those cameras later, one at a time, plus that should never be a governing factor in a surveillance plan for a home. I have at least seven cameras in view from the street, depending on where you look from and six are on the front of the house or in the yard, and very few people notice them at all.

 

[mat200]

Thank you! This is super helpful. I had been looking at how to cover that downstairs bedroom that juts out and it just seemed like there was no way to do that without the cameras looking super obvious. I agree I need to add one on the other side of the garage, but to add two more cameras to cover that bedroom would be four exposed cameras from the street and I'm worried my neighbors will think I'm some weird person.

If I'm going to add a camera point to the other side of the garage and a point to the main entry way (I already had one site planned plus a video doorbell), I guess I might as well just add another set of four points since the two points individually will cost more than putting in four. So I guess I can prewire for that room and decide if I want to use it later. Or put another point inside for an extra wifi access point.

you are welcome @ah6tyfour

Run the cables now, you can decide to leave out cameras now if you want, and add any later if you feel the need.

If you like, you can paint the camera bodies to match the house, and they will be less noticeable.