Boxes for prewire on new house build?

[Paperboy75]

I’ve tried to find an answer to this throughout the forums (and what Google has returned) but haven’t had luck. Maybe I’m not searching the right terms or asking the right questions (just sayin’ I’m not trying to be lazy and post a question that already has been answered multiple times).

Anyho, I’m doing a new house build. I’ve found plenty of good info on where to place cameras, types of cameras, sensor sizes, etc. Have also found a lot of advice on doing prewiring (especially found the tips on running twice as much cable to each location to be helpful). What I haven’t been able to find is what to use to house prewiring outdoors during early stages of the construction.

At this point the house frame is up, insulation panels on the outside have been attached, and roof and electrical have been done. The house is going to be brick but no brickwork has been done yet. Neither has any drywall.

I’m planning on using PoE. My thought was to run the Ethernet cables from a central point to each camera location, and use new/old work electrical boxes to house the cable ends until the house is done, using blank cover plates. Then all I’d have to do is mount the cameras to the prewired boxes, but I haven’t found anything that talks about doing the work like this. The only type of camera “box” I’ve been able to find a junction boxes, and I haven’t found info saying that those are designed to attach to electrical boxes.

The other options I could think of are to either run cables and coil the ends inside the house for now and then pull them outside as I install each camera, or have cable ends dangling outside for now. I’m sure there’re better ways to do this that I haven’t found.

Much appreciate any tips or advice, or someone pointing me in the right direction.

 

[samplenhold]

Welcome to the forum. Check out the Cliff Notes and the WIKI.

It is great to be able to run CAT cable before the sheetrock goes up. But the problem is not so much as to how to leave the end of the cable, but just where to have cams. The CAM Plan is important, but to get good coverage requires testing at a location to make sure you get the proper FOV.

I imagine that your plan is to place cams on the soffits at corners. That can be fine provided the soffits are not too high or you are using those cams for overview and do not expect to be able to ID a face.

As far as how to place the ends, going with an electrical box can be problematic unless you know what cam exactly you will be mounting and working out the mount in advance. Personally, I would just make sure you have a few extra feet of cable and coil it in the soffit or other place where you intend to place the cams.

 

[dwojo]

Hey @Paperboy75,

Your house is going to be there for a long time and standards change quickly. The cables you run today may not suit your needs in the future. When I built my house I ran flexible conduit so I could run any wires I wanted inside the conduit. Basically I was looking to run RJ59 (cable) and 4 wire telephone lines which were standard at the time. 30 years later I'm running CAT 7 Ethernet wire and a few coax cables for my Ham Radio antennas, all that other stuff has been pulled back and thrown out.

For inside I would terminate your conduit with new work steel boxes in walls and new work round boxes in ceilings. Outside I would stick to waterproof electrical boxes. Standard electrical box sizes have not changed in a long time and I think you would be "future proof" with these choices.

I also ran 2 wide conduits (3" flexible steel, but you could probably run flexible PVC now) from attic to basement so I could get wires all over the house.

Good Luck,
wojo

 

[mat200]

I’ve tried to find an answer to this throughout the forums (and what Google has returned) but haven’t had luck. Maybe I’m not searching the right terms or asking the right questions (just sayin’ I’m not trying to be lazy and post a question that already has been answered multiple times).

Anyho, I’m doing a new house build. I’ve found plenty of good info on where to place cameras, types of cameras, sensor sizes, etc. Have also found a lot of advice on doing prewiring (especially found the tips on running twice as much cable to each location to be helpful). What I haven’t been able to find is what to use to house prewiring outdoors during early stages of the construction.

At this point the house frame is up, insulation panels on the outside have been attached, and roof and electrical have been done. The house is going to be brick but no brickwork has been done yet. Neither has any drywall.

I’m planning on using PoE. My thought was to run the Ethernet cables from a central point to each camera location, and use new/old work electrical boxes to house the cable ends until the house is done, using blank cover plates. Then all I’d have to do is mount the cameras to the prewired boxes, but I haven’t found anything that talks about doing the work like this. The only type of camera “box” I’ve been able to find a junction boxes, and I haven’t found info saying that those are designed to attach to electrical boxes.

The other options I could think of are to either run cables and coil the ends inside the house for now and then pull them outside as I install each camera, or have cable ends dangling outside for now. I’m sure there’re better ways to do this that I haven’t found.

Much appreciate any tips or advice, or someone pointing me in the right direction.

Welcome @Paperboy75

As there are various ways to build a house, there are various options with regards to bringing cables to the appropriate location.

For a new build with a brick face, iirc the new way is to install brick with an air space between the brick and wall of house wrap / OSB / insultation.

What I would try to do:
1) run conduit stubs right above the place you want to put the box ( so you can drop the cable down and see it behind the box .. )
2) install a 1 gang "box" ( with an open back end ) where you want the camera. In general like steal boxes more than plastic, but a strong plastic one works also .. I don't know how thick the brick work will be, so you may have to talk to the brick layers and coordinate with them on this. ( should be similar to having an electric box in the location .. except for cat6 .. )

 

[sebastiantombs]

Open back boxes are usually called extension ring or box and are normally used to increase the cubic capacity, wire count capacity, of a box. Alternately a "mud ring", which is a cover extension for electrical boxes, can be used by itself and avoid the use of a box altogether while allowing easy access to the wall cavity for future wiring changes.

 

[Griswalduk]

Put a PFA130-E junction box to mount camera at each location. Leave plenty of length on cable for termination and repositioning if required. The box has cable entry on sides bottom ( outdoors it is always advisable too terminate into the bottom of the enclosure water will not go uphill) and rear (my preferred option as it requires only a small cable hole through the wall, siding etc )when mounting flush against the wall / siding. See photo

Note when i say leave plenty of length on cable this does not have to enclosed in the junction box. It can be coiled behind the box with the last 12" in the box for termination. In the future if slack is required if can easily be pulled through.

Even though the box is rated for outdoors when terminating i would still use plenty of silicon sealant on the back, any screw holes, entry points and on the lid. When mounted vertically on the wall I would also drill an 1/8" drain hole on the bottom of the box. Any water ingress into the enclosure will run out and it will never fill up with water. Another good idea often recommended I here is the use of dialectic grease and self alienating tape on the pig tail connector.

Regards

Griswald

BTW I'm UK based and regulations and best practice could be very different in your location. For all our faults its fortunate we don't have the extremes of weather like hurricane Ida. Hope your all safe and well

 

[Paperboy75]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses and advice!

Attached are some photos of what’s been installed for outdoor electrical boxes. The space between the insulation board and the boxes themselves is, I’m assuming, meant for the space of the brick. Six to 8 foot height anywhere will mean mounting through brick. Mounting to the eaves which vary from 10 to 12 feet above ground in some places to get wider, big picture shots. Everything I’ve read (so far) on this site has said that heights greater than 8 feet will not provide the right viewing angle and/or resolution.

So my thoughts (albeit only semi-educated) so far is to install the boxes (double-gang, aka square) with extension rings connected to flex conduit such as used in the included photos before brick is put up (I’m not sure how much space may be between the exterior wallboard and brick, run as much flexible conduit to a distribution panel inside of the house, and run two Cat6a cables to each box leaving plenty of slack coiled for future work. Then once I’m installing cameras I have the cables in place. So is my thinking on the right track? Is there something I’m not understanding or not planning correctly?

Regarding junction boxes: It doesn’t’ look like any are designed to be attached directly to an electrical box. Am I overlooking/misunderstanding something here, or Is this pretty much the industry standard? Are there any “universal mount” junction boxes worth trying?

Also, thoughts on running all cam cables to a dedicated distribution panel, with its own dedicated switches and router, with the camera network’s Internet connection being fed from the home’s primary Internet connected switch. This way the camera network is on its own dedicated network but still be able to reach the Internet, along with the ability to setup a double-firewall (one at the primary router and another at the cam system’s router).

Again, thanks everyone for your help!

 

[Griswalduk]

Hi Paperboy

I would forget about using the boxes you have pictured and use the PFA130-E junction box I mentioned. They are specifically used for dahua camera and the fit the current 5442 range.

They have a back entry port which is threaded and might suit the flexible conduit glands that you are using. (Note I'm from UK our electrical sizes follow metric standard so cannot say for certain). If not the back of the box can be made made to suit and a lock ring / nut used to secure.

The camera then mounts to the junction box face plate / lid.

See pictured. The installed camera shown is using this type of junction box

Hope this helps

Griswald

 

[Paperboy75]

Hi Paperboy

I would forget about using the boxes you have pictured and use the PFA130-E junction box I mentioned. They are specifically used for dahua camera and the fit the current 5442 range.

They have a back entry port which is threaded and might suit the flexible conduit glands that you are using. (Note I'm from UK our electrical sizes follow metric standard so cannot say for certain). If not the back of the box can be made made to suit and a lock ring / nut used to secure.

The camera then mounts to the junction box face plate / lid.

See pictured. The installed camera shown is using this type of junction box

Hope this helps

Griswald

Thanks!. Is the junction box mounted to the exterior of the wall? If so, how do you run the Cat6a cable to the location prior to brink being put up, or avoid the cables from being buried behind the wall?

Or is this a setup where I'll need to drill through the brick to run the cable to the camera?

 

[mat200]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses and advice!

Attached are some photos of what’s been installed for outdoor electrical boxes. The space between the insulation board and the boxes themselves is, I’m assuming, meant for the space of the brick. Six to 8 foot height anywhere will mean mounting through brick. Mounting to the eaves which vary from 10 to 12 feet above ground in some places to get wider, big picture shots. Everything I’ve read (so far) on this site has said that heights greater than 8 feet will not provide the right viewing angle and/or resolution.

So my thoughts (albeit only semi-educated) so far is to install the boxes (double-gang, aka square) with extension rings connected to flex conduit such as used in the included photos before brick is put up (I’m not sure how much space may be between the exterior wallboard and brick, run as much flexible conduit to a distribution panel inside of the house, and run two Cat6a cables to each box leaving plenty of slack coiled for future work. Then once I’m installing cameras I have the cables in place. So is my thinking on the right track? Is there something I’m not understanding or not planning correctly?

Regarding junction boxes: It doesn’t’ look like any are designed to be attached directly to an electrical box. Am I overlooking/misunderstanding something here, or Is this pretty much the industry standard? Are there any “universal mount” junction boxes worth trying?

Also, thoughts on running all cam cables to a dedicated distribution panel, with its own dedicated switches and router, with the camera network’s Internet connection being fed from the home’s primary Internet connected switch. This way the camera network is on its own dedicated network but still be able to reach the Internet, along with the ability to setup a double-firewall (one at the primary router and another at the cam system’s router).

Again, thanks everyone for your help!

View attachment 100312View attachment 100313View attachment 100314

I would try to do something similar for your cameras .. this way you can fish the cat6 cables via that conduit.
If you have room in the attic, you only need to a conduit "stub" from there to a similar box ..

 

[Griswalduk]

Yes. The junction box is mounted to the exterior of the wall.

Do exactly the same as has been done for the electrical boxes except use the camera boxes. Run the cables in now and leave them coiled up in the junction box. When the brickwork goes up you can leave a gap/ hole for the conduit to pass through. This is the idea for the electrical outlets i presume

The box can then be secured with screws and wall plugs externally with the conduit coming in the rear. Mind you it looks like you'll need a 1 1/4" hole or probably more like 1 1/2" to facilitate the conduit gland.

In the UK we put the block/ brickwork up first then run the cables. Usually tracking the inside wall as it is also block or running conduit on the surface. A hole would be drilled inside to outside through the wall cavity. This has the advantage that it can be a small hole i.e. 10mm just large enough for the cable. It's good practise to sleeve this bit but that requires a larger hole 20mm

Working practises, codes and regulations are no doubt different here.

Griswald

 

[Griswalduk]

The stubs mat200 refers to are common in domestic installations in the UK also. This helps maintenance / rewiring at a later date. These stubs typically rigid conduit are sunk into the wall and run from the points of use to below floor level or above ceiling height of each room with cables clipped direct as required thereafter.

 

[samplenhold]

Everything I’ve read (so far) on this site has said that heights greater than 8 feet will not provide the right viewing angle and/or resolution.

That is more or less correct. However, the height and the distance to the intended target has a lot to do with it. See below:

Yes, if your cam is above head height and is pointed such that the FOV is directly in front of the cam, you will get only the top of a head. However, if you have the FOV as fixed on something further away and zoomed into that area, then the ability to get a good face shot is better.

As in my case for my garage cams, they are at about 7.5 feet from the ground and focused down the driveway to where my Jeep is parked. The driveway does slope towards the street. But using a 6mm focal length cam, I get good face shots. Testing is the real way to go for every position.

 

[Ron75077]

Slightly different question. Looking at using the same junction boxes but the cable will need to enter the junction box from the side vs the back entry port.
Older junction boxes (PFA137) come with a fitting to allow you to provide a water tight entry for the ethernet (or other) cable. The parts list for the PFA130's do not included this fitting.
So far I have been unable to find this online. Amcrest has a similar product to the PFA130 and they do not have this fitting. Hoping someone can help.

 

[sebastiantombs]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DH95GRD/?coliid=I393EIP82M23TV&colid=3DJ96FH498CMH&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

[Griswalduk]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DH95GRD/?coliid=I393EIP82M23TV&colid=3DJ96FH498CMH&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Hi Sebastian

The link shows what we in the UK would call 25mm compression glands. The other popular size is 20mm. The same applies for conduit and fittings. They tend to be 20 and 25mm respectively

I thought in the USA the equivalent imperial size was used i.e. 3/4 or 1". I have also seen reference to the smaller 1/2"

While i appreciate this box is used all over the world and not country specific I'm wondering what sizes are used commonly used in the US.

My background is in electrical engineering btw hence my interest.

PS to the original poster the glands say they are for a cable size 9-17mm. That's quite a big entry point for a cat6 cable and the gland might not tighten down enough to provide a good seal. In the UK we would build the cable up with suitable tape or use silicon sealant. It's called "making it work" lol

I'm just thinking.....externally always bring the cable in the bottom of the junction box and leave a drip loop to shed water. It won't go up hill on its own lol

Griswald

 

[sebastiantombs]

The PFA130 has, what us Yanks refer to as, 3/4" hubs for conduit. That's true of the other boxes I've bought from Andy for Dahua cameras. Being somewhat of a "by the seat of the pants" flyer, I've used a gob of Duct Seal rather than a glands for cameras that are semi-temporary. I'm not as worried about water as I am about six and eight legged creatures making a home in the box.

 

[dudemaar]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses and advice!

Attached are some photos of what’s been installed for outdoor electrical boxes. The space between the insulation board and the boxes themselves is, I’m assuming, meant for the space of the brick. Six to 8 foot height anywhere will mean mounting through brick. Mounting to the eaves which vary from 10 to 12 feet above ground in some places to get wider, big picture shots. Everything I’ve read (so far) on this site has said that heights greater than 8 feet will not provide the right viewing angle and/or resolution.

So my thoughts (albeit only semi-educated) so far is to install the boxes (double-gang, aka square) with extension rings connected to flex conduit such as used in the included photos before brick is put up (I’m not sure how much space may be between the exterior wallboard and brick, run as much flexible conduit to a distribution panel inside of the house, and run two Cat6a cables to each box leaving plenty of slack coiled for future work. Then once I’m installing cameras I have the cables in place. So is my thinking on the right track? Is there something I’m not understanding or not planning correctly?

Regarding junction boxes: It doesn’t’ look like any are designed to be attached directly to an electrical box. Am I overlooking/misunderstanding something here, or Is this pretty much the industry standard? Are there any “universal mount” junction boxes worth trying?

Also, thoughts on running all cam cables to a dedicated distribution panel, with its own dedicated switches and router, with the camera network’s Internet connection being fed from the home’s primary Internet connected switch. This way the camera network is on its own dedicated network but still be able to reach the Internet, along with the ability to setup a double-firewall (one at the primary router and another at the cam system’s router).

Again, thanks everyone for your help!

View attachment 100312View attachment 100313View attachment 100314

If these boxes are 2x3 “ and recessed into the brick, then you may still be able to cover them with a pfa-30e camera mount? Depending on how precise the cut out is in brick, it would give you a bit of room to anchor. Just a thought is all. ?

 

[samplenhold]

 

[Ron75077]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DH95GRD/?coliid=I393EIP82M23TV&colid=3DJ96FH498CMH&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Thanks they worked.