Blessing in disguise…. Sorta

R

Rusty Ross

Getting the hang of it
Oct 26, 2018
87
39
Texas
Long story short my next door neighbors car got ran into and the person drove away! They came and asked me if my cameras caught anything and while the answer was yes, my driveway camera caught the act of doing but that’s it. I don’t know if it was my settings or what but I tried for hours trying to get their plate number for them. Later on I started playing with the settings to see if I could get a better image next time in case something worse was to happen; or even our property this time!

My problem or question is, whenever I change the camera record settings to mainstream it basically crashes the DVR and forces it to restart. I had to give up trying for now and just put them back to default so it runs smoothly which is only the sub stream h264

specs are as follows:
Lorex D841A8-D262 with 10tb hard drive
Lorex C882DA-Z camera (6)
Upgraded RG-59 cable with power inverter

do I get a newer camera that can record a better picture? Change a setting or two to keep the system from crashing? Please help to prevent a future problem due to lack of evidence!
 
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You are suffering from the common mistake of trying to do too much with one camera.

That view is a nice overview to see what is happening, but is poor for plate reading and poor for even door checkers as it is too high and all you will get are tops of heads and hoodies.

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible AND try to make the angle as small as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

Now in some instances you MAY get away with some digital zoom on a wide-angle during the day, but not at night at all.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

1658687568054.png
 
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wittaj said:
You are suffering from the common mistake of trying to do too much with one camera.

That view is a nice overview to see what is happening, but is poor for plate reading and poor for even door checkers as it is too high and all you will get are tops of heads and hoodies.

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible AND try to make the angle as small as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

Now in some instances you MAY get away with some digital zoom on a wide-angle during the day, but not at night at all.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

View attachment 134363
Click to expand...

well I have several of these cameras placed around my house for security; as well as a ring camera doorbell for the knockers. Mainly wanted to know what I could add or use with my setup now to better help the situation really. I know ip cameras are better but that’s not an option right now so I have to stick with what I have!
 
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Not sure what is wrong with the main stream recording, but even if you had the main stream recorded, it would not be able to tell you the license plate number. Reading license plates from much distance at all requires a camera with a much longer focal length (typically achieved via a motorized zoom lens) so you can zoom and focus on the road where vehicles will pass through at an angle suitable for reading their plates. An IP camera is not required for this, just lots of optical zoom.
 
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Either find an analog camera with lots of OPTICAL zoom, like a focal length greater than probably 40mm looking at that image.

Or add a stand-alone IP camera just for plates with an SD card. The goto is the 5241-Z12E and I did just when I was running analog before I started switching to IP cameras.

 
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So are the defaulted camera settings ok to use in the case of just security and overview? Again not sure why I can’t change the settings without the DVR constantly restarting. Here is a snapshot of all the cameras I have laid out; and yes I know I need to adjust a few of them but it’s hot in Texas right now!!!

CD0ABCE3-481F-4747-908D-42CF4449C2A2.png
 
I am not sure of the capabilities of your cameras, but default settings, especially at night, usually result in ghosting and blurring of images at night.

You would have to see if you can manually adjust parameters like shutter(exposure) speed. Need faster than 1/60s to start to minimize blur. Then adjust brightness/contrast, etc. to each field of view.
 
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Rusty Ross said:
Long story short my next door neighbors car got ran into and the person drove away! They came and asked me if my cameras caught anything and while the answer was yes, my driveway camera caught the act of doing but that’s it. I don’t know if it was my settings or what but I tried for hours trying to get their plate number for them. Later on I started playing with the settings to see if I could get a better image next time in case something worse was to happen; or even our property this time!

My problem or question is, whenever I change the camera record settings to mainstream it basically crashes the DVR and forces it to restart. I had to give up trying for now and just put them back to default so it runs smoothly which is only the sub stream h264

specs are as follows:
Lorex D841A8-D262 with 10tb hard drive
Lorex C882DA-Z camera (6)
Upgraded RG-59 cable with power inverter

do I get a newer camera that can record a better picture? Change a setting or two to keep the system from crashing? Please help to prevent a future problem due to lack of evidence!
Click to expand...


HI @Rusty Ross

Quick look, at the specs on the camera:
1) 8MP
2) Wide FOV
3) Small sensor size

Lorex D841A8-D262 with 10tb hard drive
Lorex C882DA-Z camera (6)


1658690385500.png


1658690425718.png

1658690450055.png



Comments:
A) I would have at least 2 cameras covering the driveway, one on each side of the garage door about the height of the garage door.

B) See the DORI section of the cliff notes.
With an H FOV of 105° you will have a rather short ID distance even with a 8MP camera.
As the camera is mounted higher, the suspect will need to be closer to the garage door and look up to get a good ID image capture.

What would I do: ( in addition to tuning .. )
I would see if EmpireTecAndy has a couple of nicer Dahua Analog cameras to add to that kit as Lorex kits are typically Dahua OEM ( which I believe your current kit is )
I would look for a 1/1.8" sensor at least, and 2 cameras to add, each camera with at least a FOV less than 90 degrees ..

If you want to keep an eye on the street, you will need cameras which have stronger lenses ( tighter FOV ) to put enough pixels on the street, as well as setup to get a better angle on the street .. so there does get to be a question of is an 8 channel DVR enough, and for me I typically would recommend most people start with a 16 channel kit vs a 8 channel one, as I always seem to want to add just one more camera and hit that 8 channel limit.
 

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Rusty Ross said:
View attachment 134362
Click to expand...

I see this too often around here, being near a 20K acre lake. We have lots of weekenders that rarely tow anything are pulling a 20 ft, trailer and are hollerin' at the kids in the back seat....basically, numb-nuts forgot he was pulling a trailer, it seems. :screwy::drool:
 
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TonyR said:
I see this too often around here, being near a 20K acre lake. We have lots of weekenders that rarely tow anything are pulling a 20 ft, trailer and are hollerin' at the kids in the back seat....basically, numb-nuts forgot he was pulling a trailer, it seems. :screwy::drool:
Click to expand...

the sad thing is, he drove through the same two cars more than once in a 5 minute span!
 
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mat200 said:
HI @Rusty Ross

Quick look, at the specs on the camera:
1) 8MP
2) Wide FOV
3) Small sensor size

Lorex D841A8-D262 with 10tb hard drive
Lorex C882DA-Z camera (6)


View attachment 134367


View attachment 134369

View attachment 134370



Comments:
A) I would have at least 2 cameras covering the driveway, one on each side of the garage door about the height of the garage door.

B) See the DORI section of the cliff notes.
With an H FOV of 105° you will have a rather short ID distance even with a 8MP camera.
As the camera is mounted higher, the suspect will need to be closer to the garage door and look up to get a good ID image capture.

What would I do: ( in addition to tuning .. )
I would see if EmpireTecAndy has a couple of nicer Dahua Analog cameras to add to that kit as Lorex kits are typically Dahua OEM ( which I believe your current kit is )
I would look for a 1/1.8" sensor at least, and 2 cameras to add, each camera with at least a FOV less than 90 degrees ..

If you want to keep an eye on the street, you will need cameras which have stronger lenses ( tighter FOV ) to put enough pixels on the street, as well as setup to get a better angle on the street .. so there does get to be a question of is an 8 channel DVR enough, and for me I typically would recommend most people start with a 16 channel kit vs a 8 channel one, as I always seem to want to add just one more camera and hit that 8 channel limit.
Click to expand...

would this be better than what I have currently? I know it’s not much but a small upgrade would be feasible especially if it’s just a plug and play

 
That's a 1/3" sensor which on a 4K camera will be blind t night. Don't chase megapixels, chase the relationship between sensor size and resolution.

Disclaimer - These sizes are what the manufacturers advertise and may, or may not, be the true size of the sensor in the camera.
1/3" = .333" Great for 720P
1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet) Great for 2MP
1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball) Great for 4MP
1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round) Great for 8MP

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.
 
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sebastiantombs said:
That's a 1/3" sensor which on a 4K camera will be blind t night. Don't chase megapixels, chase the relationship between sensor size and resolution.

Disclaimer - These sizes are what the manufacturers advertise and may, or may not, be the true size of the sensor in the camera.
1/3" = .333" Great for 720P
1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet) Great for 2MP
1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball) Great for 4MP
1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round) Great for 8MP

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.
Click to expand...

ok that makes sense. My options are limited since my setup is analog and don’t really have the means to upgrade to ip right now
 
Contact Andy as others have said. I'm pretty sure he can solve that problem for you.
 
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Hopefully they called the police and this is being given as evidence?
The driver looks like a white male, black balding hair with black beard.

Some kind of lawn crew with 3, or is it 4 people in the truck?

Best of luck on capturing these idiots.
 
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Timokreon said:
Hopefully they called the police and this is being given as evidence?
The driver looks like a white male, black balding hair with black beard.

Some kind of lawn crew with 3, or is it 4 people in the truck?

Best of luck on capturing these idiots.
Click to expand...

Yes the cops came out and asked if we had the video. I gave it to the neighbor which will forward it to the one who is working the case. I’ve never had to do anything like that before so it took me awhile to figure out how to extract the footage lol. Hopefully someone close by knows the crew or maybe had a glimpse of the truck and trailer so they can watch out for it later
 
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