Best night cam special use case - No illum/No Ident

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n3wb
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Hi all, thanks for an excellent forum.

I have a special use case. I want to point a camera out over a field about 250m x 250m in Sweden and monitor wildlife as good as I can during night. There is no need for identification of faces etc and illumination is for obvious reasons not very feasible. I would like to see as much as possible, numer of animals, shape and size etc. In summer our short nights are not pitch dark, in winter its more challenging.

I am thinking the right camera for me is a no thrills (no AI etc) camera, 2mp best possible biggest starlight sensor (like Sony 1/1.2) with a good quality F1.0 lens. I have several Dahua cameras, a few 5442, which seem to work extremely well without illumination in the night but they use 1/1.8 sensor and F1.6 lens (I think) and it should be possible to get something even better. Dahua don't seem to offer a not too expensive camera with the above specs.

Most camera vendors build more and more AI into their cameras, I am happy with I have in BI so I rather just focus on the sensor and lens and get it in a small compact cheap package.

What cameras are out there from other brands worth looking at?
 

spammenotinoz

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Following as I am interested in the responses, as night time photography is a very challenging area and the saying you get what you pay for really applies at night more than day.

What I can say though, is all the ultra low light cameras such as the Startlight and Startlight+ all require some light, just lower levels, ie: startlight, even moonlight isn't good enough without IR. Sure technically you can capture a STILL but as soon as there is movement you get disappointed.

Having deployed cams in a rural setting before capturing wildlife, I found the IR needs to be turned right down to avoid bleeding and bounceback.
I also found a lot of the wildlife, particularly rodents moves so damn fast you need decent IR or Light to avoid a big blurry mess, or super noisy frame. I think this is important to make out the size of the animal.
I can say that even with IR and a starlight plus, I can't make out the difference between a possum, mouse or RAT or on most occasions.

It all depends on the animals, but I found having a small light near the camera did not deter any animals (but would be no good for a scientific study I suppose), which in such case the Dahua's with the in-build White LED's could be a good choice if you don't mind the light.

Hikvision also have some good low light cameras, the debate rages which is better, but they are around the same price. Hit Andy up in these forums from EmpireTech, I think I read he may have a sale in Feb.
I think $150 - $200 would be a good price range, but I strongly recommend watching real footage on you tube so you know what you are getting. I am still personally struggling for the best night time footage possible.
 

spammenotinoz

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Hi all, thanks for an excellent forum.

I have a special use case. I want to point a camera out over a field about 250m x 250m in Sweden and monitor wildlife as good as I can during night. There is no need for identification of faces etc and illumination is for obvious reasons not very feasible. I would like to see as much as possible, numer of animals, shape and size etc. In summer our short nights are not pitch dark, in winter its more challenging.

I am thinking the right camera for me is a no thrills (no AI etc) camera, 2mp best possible biggest starlight sensor (like Sony 1/1.2) with a good quality F1.0 lens. I have several Dahua cameras, a few 5442, which seem to work extremely well without illumination in the night but they use 1/1.8 sensor and F1.6 lens (I think) and it should be possible to get something even better. Dahua don't seem to offer a not too expensive camera with the above specs.

Most camera vendors build more and more AI into their cameras, I am happy with I have in BI so I rather just focus on the sensor and lens and get it in a small compact cheap package.

What cameras are out there from other brands worth looking at?
Sorry I should say that one night after a few drinks I did purchase the following CAM, for $110 delivered to Australia, it claims 0.001 LUX @ F1.0 lens.
So on paper (not that I trust there specs, should be a significant step up from my Dahua Starlight+ at half the cost), how could I not fall for this trap.


You do see them come up regularly on ebay for < $100 USD

I can't recommend this as I don't have it, I will be comparing it with a Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE which is around $200 and is a 0.003 LUX @ F1.8 lens. This is currently the best low light Dahua I have.
This Annke CAN does not have IR, so I intend to use without the warm light and hope the F1.0 can pick up enough light.

I had been hearing a lot of good news about this budget brand, so just taking a punt.
 
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Mike A.

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I had been hearing a lot of good news about this budget brand, so just taking a punt.
Annke doesn't make anything. It just resells others under its name. That looks to be an Hikvision cam (DS-2CD2047G1-L?):

 

bp2008

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spammenotinoz

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Annke doesn't make anything. It just resells others under its name. That looks to be an Hikvision cam (DS-2CD2047G1-L?):

Thank-you, no I don't feel as though I threw away $100 on this cam just to do a review. It may actually surprise me.
Don't know if it's covid tax or not, but the DS-2CD2047G1-L here sells for above $250.
 

Mike A.

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Thank-you, no I don't feel as though I threw away $100 on this cam just to do a review. It may actually surprise me.
Don't know if it's covid tax or not, but the DS-2CD2047G1-L here sells for above $250.
Yes, more expensive here too. The Annke is $111 USD from its site. Hikvision is $179-$250 USD at US vendors. I don't know for sure that it's the exact same model but core specs look the same. There may be some variances otherwise.

Thought there might be a good review here of either cam but I don't see anything. I did see this which may imply some firmware differences between them (as is the case of other Annke cams):


Whether firmware can be swapped between them shrug
 

spammenotinoz

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I have started testing the Annke NC400 and yes it is most certainly a Hikvision Clone, the Camera operations and menus are identical to Hikvision.
Initial thoughts;
  • Delivery to AU was very quick from local stock (ie: shipped locally not from the US where I ordered it)
  • Low light performance is crazy, have not managed to get the LED to light-up in auto mode (stays colour throughout the night)
  • Deals with motion okay, not as good as the higher end ColorVu models from Hikvision, but exceeds my Dahua's in low light performance
  • Image is not as sharp as the Dahua, kind of feels artificial or something is not quite right, could be just the sensor is picking up soo much light compared to what I see with my eyes
  • For a bullet it is very small, physically about the size of IPC-T5442TM-AS turret
  • No Exposure Auto Mode, however you can change the value without issue
  • BI detected the camera, but I had to guess the sub-stream URL as sub-stream was not automatically populated
  • Running H.265, camera defaulted to medium quality with a low bit rate, so upped for testing.
  • WDR performs well
  • I created an ONVIF user for BI (actually unsure if this was required, need to test)

Still need to test in a super dark setup, to get the LED's on (they work as I covered the lens in a cupboard and it came on).
You can set the LED strength to Off, Auto or Manual. Even on Manual though doesn't come on unless the camera thinks it needs it.
When I finish testing depending on how I feel and if Hikvision release the F\W to activate the LED on motion, I may try and load Hikvision firmware even at the likely outcome of bricking the device, but with no immediate bugs and without a low light location there is no point.

The sale has ended, however there seem to be regular sales at the Annke store.
 

Mike A.

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I have started testing the Annke NC400 and yes it is most certainly a Hikvision Clone, the Camera operations and menus are identical to Hikvision.
Initial thoughts...
How has this been working for you? Ever get to try it in a very dark location?

Annke now has these for $88 USD with 20% off code "EASTER" Was thinking about maybe trying one.
 

pozzello

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No Exposure Auto Mode, however you can change the value without issue
FWIW, Hikvision's default 'auto' exposure mode has always been a limit setting. IE, setting it to 1/60 means the longest exposure will be 1/60s.... ( I doubt Anke would disable that - make it truly fixed - for market differntiation)
 

spammenotinoz

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How has this been working for you? Ever get to try it in a very dark location?

Annke now has these for $88 USD with 20% off code "EASTER" Was thinking about maybe trying one.
In a very dark location, I need to use the in-built LED or external lighting, works well for objects up close, but don't expect the led to illuminate any objects in the distance. I found a low-powered solar light works well.
I also have the DS-2CD2087G2-L(U) which does perform better in low light, but also requires light.

It's actually 30% off now, so for < $77 delivered it's good value.
Note: NC400 is now on 30% off DOTW sale with code DOTW30
Due to the Wide FOV this is a good overview CAM or for close objects.

Note:
The Hik firmware has the option to enable the LED on motion, which the Annke doesn't yet offer.
 

Mike A.

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Yeah, that's my hesitation. I don't have much full-time light here and up-close uses are limited. Very tempting @ $77 but unless I have a good application for it not sure that it's worth bothering with.

Thanks for the update on the coupon.
 
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