Best cams with auto tracking?

ZeeCam

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Not in the UK when you have a trade account :)
I do wish for Hik PTZ with AT but current price is a bit difficult to swallow.
 

Nunofya

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Has anyone used one of the new cams that use radar for motion tracking?
 

ZeeCam

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Got the 4mp cam with larger sensor then 2mp. Initial impressions it's huuuuuge but also awesome. Much better night image, so much so that IRs are not needed with some street light. I see some lens softness in corners at certain focal lengths but it's not bad. The important thing is auto tracking works great and it's already the latest firmware. I am using tripwire zone.

It's not really comparable but I am more impressed with that dome already then a fixed lens hik colorvue 8k I also have.
 

Nunofya

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Got the 4mp cam with larger sensor then 2mp. Initial impressions it's huuuuuge but also awesome. Much better night image, so much so that IRs are not needed with some street light. I see some lens softness in corners at certain focal lengths but it's not bad. The important thing is auto tracking works great and it's already the latest firmware. I am using tripwire zone.

It's not really comparable but I am more impressed with that dome already then a fixed lens hik colorvue 8k I also have.
Did you get the SD5A425XA-HNR? Can't get the auto tracking to work right on mine. Could you post pics of your web gui setting? I've tried tripwire and intrusion but still can't get it to track more than a few seconds (if it tracks at all). Don't know if I'm using it right. When it does track, it zooms out plus drifts off target in different directions then zooms back in to frantically search for target before resetting itself.
 

wittaj

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It would help to show some video of what you are experiencing, and if you have an SD card in it, you can turn on the IVS rules during playback that shows the object tracking box on the screen so we can see what it locked onto instead would be very helpful.

As you are seeing, these are not plug and play. You have to dial them in. But once you do, they are incredible. Mine hits the mark over 95% of the time.

Are you running default/auto settings?

It is a matter of getting the brightness/contrast and target ratio settings correct.

I always knew that you shouldn't chase a bright picture - it looks nice and people migrate towards a brighter TV for example, but upon closer examination, most images need to be toned down in order to get all the details. You will be surprised how much changing a parameter like gamma could impact tracking. For example, if you have a pesky tree or something in the middle of the view during an autotrack, just by changing some image parameters you can get autotrack to pass it. Making the image a little darker at night actually helped with tracking someone across the street, which was opposite of what I thought you would think to do. So add some contrast to your image above and see if it improves.

I have a yard lamp post that more times than not autotrack would get stuck on it as someone was walking and the autotrack would only go so far. Because my image has soo much contrast (bright white concrete a third, blacktop road a third, grass a third), knocking down the gamma made the lamp post not be so "trackable" lol, and along with that I turned of PFA and that gave it just enough time to retrack the person walking past the lamp post. The camera may still autotrack the lamp post when a small kid goes by, but an adult it was autotracking past the lamp post.

Ideally for an intrusion box or tripwires, you should have the initial field of view be such that the camera doesn't have to initially pan too much up/down or left/right to get the object in the center of the screen to start tracking. The closer the object is to the center of the image, the better the chance that it will track correctly.

The reason it starts looking upward or left or right is usually because the intrusion box is too big so the camera identifies the object before it is in the center of the field of view and then sometimes something else matches the "algorithm signature" of the initial object and then starts trying to track something that isn't there. Adjusting the field of view and the locations of the IVS rules to be closer to the center can fix that.

Autotracking PTZs are great, but they have limitations like everything else. Installed in a wrong location or with fields of view that do not give it a chance will be problematic.

You also need to use INTERNET EXPLORER as the camera track time will change to 15 seconds in any other browser.
 
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ljw2k

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Did you get the SD5A425XA-HNR? Can't get the auto tracking to work right on mine. Could you post pics of your web gui setting? I've tried tripwire and intrusion but still can't get it to track more than a few seconds (if it tracks at all). Don't know if I'm using it right. When it does track, it zooms out plus drifts off target in different directions then zooms back in to frantically search for target before resetting itself.
Make sure you have the updated firmware as the older firmware's made the auto tracking useless

Latest firmware DH_SD-Prometheus_MultiLang_PN_Stream3_V2.812.0000012.0.R.210904
SD5A425XA-HNR (dahuasecurity.com)

2022-02-04 18_00_50-Setting - Internet Explorer.jpg

Here is a quick track of mine at night even when the person passes objects it still locks on to him. ( I have the tracking Size set to high here 52 I usually have it set to around 30-35 )

View attachment PTZ.20220204_170007_1.mp4
 
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Nunofya

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Nunofya

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Make sure you have the updated firmware as the older firmware's made the auto tracking useless

Latest firmware DH_SD-Prometheus_MultiLang_PN_Stream3_V2.812.0000012.0.R.210904
SD5A425XA-HNR (dahuasecurity.com)

View attachment 117738

Here is a quick track of mine at night even when the person passes objects it still locks on to him. ( I have the tracking Size set to high here 52 I usually have it set to around 30-35 )

View attachment 117739















Need to figure how to post a video like yours. Watching a street about 200ft across my yard, so it's already zoomed in some. Does target size help keep the focused zoomed in while tracking? Had mine all the way down to 10. What is Target filter, Max, Min, and pixel counter?
 

wittaj

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The target size number represents what % of the screen you want the target to be. Too low of a number and it doesn't zoom in enough. Too high a number and it can lose tracking or focus on the body and not the head. 10 is probably too low at that distance. Start with 45 and adjust from there.

Max size means if the object is larger than that it will not trigger. Best to leave that at default unless you get too many false triggers.

Min size means the min size you want the camera to trigger on. Since you have a camera with AI, you leave this at 0,0 unless you are getting false triggers, then you would set a min size larger than the false trigger (like a dog), but start with 0,0

The box for the min and max size is just a representation and the positioning on the screen means nothing.

The pixel counter is simply to measure an object so you know what sizes to put in for a min object size. You do not need to do anything with this.
 

Nunofya

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The target size number represents what % of the screen you want the target to be. Too low of a number and it doesn't zoom in enough. Too high a number and it can lose tracking or focus on the body and not the head. 10 is probably too low at that distance. Start with 45 and adjust from there.

Max size means if the object is larger than that it will not trigger. Best to leave that at default unless you get too many false triggers.

Min size means the min size you want the camera to trigger on. Since you have a camera with AI, you leave this at 0,0 unless you are getting false triggers, then you would set a min size larger than the false trigger (like a dog), but start with 0,0

The box for the min and max size is just a representation and the positioning on the screen means nothing.

The pixel counter is simply to measure an object so you know what sizes to put in for a min object size. You do not need to do anything with this.
Finally, :clap:
Some much-appreciated explanation. I know I still need the software update but can start to make some adjustment of things now.
 

Nunofya

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The target size number represents what % of the screen you want the target to be. Too low of a number and it doesn't zoom in enough. Too high a number and it can lose tracking or focus on the body and not the head. 10 is probably too low at that distance. Start with 45 and adjust from there.

Max size means if the object is larger than that it will not trigger. Best to leave that at default unless you get too many false triggers.

Min size means the min size you want the camera to trigger on. Since you have a camera with AI, you leave this at 0,0 unless you are getting false triggers, then you would set a min size larger than the false trigger (like a dog), but start with 0,0

The box for the min and max size is just a representation and the positioning on the screen means nothing.

The pixel counter is simply to measure an object so you know what sizes to put in for a min object size. You do not need to do anything with this.
Can you explain the proper use for the tripwire and intrusion setting as well as parameter setup?
 

ljw2k

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2022-02-04 19_46_40-Blue Iris.jpg

When in playback move the Green/Red sliders circled to start/Stop of your clip then right click Export the clip to your desktop.
 

wittaj

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Can you explain the proper use for the tripwire and intrusion setting as well as parameter setup?
In addition to Post #25 above:

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

But first, run H264, smart codec off, CBR, and 8192 bitrate to start. This should make it more crisp.

I think you should also take off manual IR - your camera is low so you are getting a lot of IR bounce off the ground that is degrading the picture.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.

Now with a PTZ, there is the challenge in that at night, it will see a wide array of lighting depending on where it is pointed and the amount of zoom. So it takes additional dialing in to make sure it performs in all the different field of views that it might see.

Most of us have found that IVS rules work much better than motion detection or Smart Motion Detection if you are only interested in human or vehicle triggers.

But you only use one. So if you use IVS, then turn off MD and SMD.

Intrusion boxes and tripwires are two ways to trigger the IVS. Each has a use case.

The tripwire works in a 3 dimensional way, so the object has to travel halfway through the line. Tripwires work well if you only care about triggers in one direction. You need to leave some buffer between the edge of the camera view and the tripwire or it will miss it. The camera needs time to ID the motion and determine if it meets the criteria to trigger on the tripwire.

The intrusion box is the simplest because you just draw a box and tell it to trigger if the object crosses or appears. However, it then is looking at the entire frame and that can contribute to it wandering off in some field of views.

The best thing to do is try each one individually and see which one performs better for your field of view.
 

Nunofya

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In addition to Post #25 above:

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

But first, run H264, smart codec off, CBR, and 8192 bitrate to start. This should make it more crisp.

I think you should also take off manual IR - your camera is low so you are getting a lot of IR bounce off the ground that is degrading the picture.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.

Now with a PTZ, there is the challenge in that at night, it will see a wide array of lighting depending on where it is pointed and the amount of zoom. So it takes additional dialing in to make sure it performs in all the different field of views that it might see.

Most of us have found that IVS rules work much better than motion detection or Smart Motion Detection if you are only interested in human or vehicle triggers.

But you only use one. So if you use IVS, then turn off MD and SMD.

Intrusion boxes and tripwires are two ways to trigger the IVS. Each has a use case.

The tripwire works in a 3 dimensional way, so the object has to travel halfway through the line. Tripwires work well if you only care about triggers in one direction. You need to leave some buffer between the edge of the camera view and the tripwire or it will miss it. The camera needs time to ID the motion and determine if it meets the criteria to trigger on the tripwire.

The intrusion box is the simplest because you just draw a box and tell it to trigger if the object crosses or appears. However, it then is looking at the entire frame and that can contribute to it wandering off in some field of views.

The best thing to do is try each one individually and see which one performs better for your field of view.
Excellent stuff man. Finally getting an understanding. So, I have IVS, MD, and SMD all on. I'll turn off MD and SMD. I have a tripwire and two intrusion boxes on. You recommend just using one big intrusion box and delete the other two rules?
 
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