Anyone Running Cat6 Cable & Mains in Parallel

[essjay]

I have some 20mm trunking along the front of my house that is powering 3 x 13w lights @ 230v (less than 0.2 amps I think) . I want to put an additional camera above one of these lights at the front door.

If possible, it makes sense to run the Cat6 cable in the trunking beside the mains. From researching, some websites/forums say it's ok, others say the sky will fall in and might lead to interference when the lights are switching on/off. Realistically it shouldn't be longer than 5m.

Is anyone else doing this and notice any impact?

 

[Hammerhead786]

Low voltage (ethernet) cable should cross mains cable at a 90 degree angle. It should not be run with any high voltage cable in the same piece of conduit (may be a code violation I believe). If you need to run low voltage cable in parallel, it should be at least 12" away from the high voltage cable.

 

[Podagrower]

Where I am at, you can't mix data and power in the same conduit unless the data cable insulation is rated for the same voltage. If I were thinking of this, I would be looking for a shielded cable from the Belden catalog. I've seen plenty of has to be ___ inches away, has to cross at ___ degrees minimum, but I have only ever seen one case where there was a performance issue-the cable feed to the house and power feed to the house were in the same trench for about 100'. Running a new cable across the ground (about 24 inches away) eliminated the problem until the underground guys could finish arguing about whose problem it was.

 

[SecuritySeeker]

I have some 20mm trunking along the front of my house that is powering 3 x 13w lights @ 230v (less than 0.2 amps I think) . I want to put an additional camera above one of these lights at the front door.

If possible, it makes sense to run the Cat6 cable in the trunking beside the mains. From researching, some websites/forums say it's ok, others say the sky will fall in and might lead to interference when the lights are switching on/off. Realistically it shouldn't be longer than 5m.

Is anyone else doing this and notice any impact?

It's not recommended to do this for safety and insurance reasons and depending on where you live may be against code. Will it work? Most probably yes, with such low current especially (low current means weak EM field means little interference). But don't come complaining here if your house burns down and the insurance won't cover or if you get an electric shock at some point.

Where I am at, you can't mix data and power in the same conduit unless the data cable insulation is rated for the same voltage.

Same here. I believe doubly insulated cable for power is also allowed overhere. Of course with so much insulation it's going to be difficult or impossible to fit all that in 20mm conduit (isn't 20mm the outer diameter btw?).

 

[looney2ns]

Really best to NOT do it. Follow the guidelines.

 

[essjay]

My understand is that the code violation relates to possible interference and data loss. Not that voltage would jump from one cable to another.

 

[looney2ns]

My understand is that the code violation relates to possible interference and data loss. Not that voltage would jump from one cable to another.

It can jump. Ethernet is RF radio frequency. Do you really want to spend all the time to install the cable, then possibly have problems with the cams because of interference.

 

[SecuritySeeker]

It can jump. Ethernet is RF radio frequency. Do you really want to spend all the time to install the cable, then possibly have problems with the cams because of interference.

The direction of interference to be concerned about in this case is from 50/60Hz mains to the Ethernet cable, not the other way around. Even though that's not RF it could still cause interference but like I said with such low current and only 5 meters it's probably not going to be a problem, interference-wise.

My understand is that the code violation relates to possible interference and data loss. Not that voltage would jump from one cable to another.

If the insulation is intact it won't but that is the thing to worry about. Who knows what will happen to that insulation over time, and you won't notice it because it's in conduit with no way to inspect it. Take it from me, it's really best not to mess around with mains voltage (I have a master's degree in electrical engineering btw).

 

[SecurityCams]

May I answer this? without sounding like a smarty pants. I am a Journeyman Electrician, a certified network professional and an Electrical Engineer with over 40 years experience. All that to give you a little confidence that I know at least a little.

First, THERE IS NO CODE VIOLATION.

The only potential negative impact on running the low voltage network cable alongside your power. When two cables are run close to each other and one of them has a high current (NOT VOLTAGE) you can get what is known as "Inductive Coupling" whereby voltage is induced into the low voltage wires. With the low amperage you are talking about at 60 cycles you probably won't have any problems even if you put the network cable up against the power even if they were in the same conduit although that is never recommended.


2/10 of an amp at 60 cycles is not enough current to have a sufficient magnetic field to induce enough voltage to be a problem with the Ethernet cable especially since the network cable is 4 pairs of twisted wires. Having the wires cross at 90 degrees as one poster suggested overcomes the coupling but it does not have to be that much angle.

Capacitive coupling also occurs but you won't see any problem with that either. In a factory or highly critical area I would separate them more. At your House, If it was me, I would run the wire NOT in conduit FIRST where you want to try and see if you have any issues. I bet you won't have any problems. After you find out. then run conduit and put your network cable in it.

Dimes to donuts You won't have a problem and there is absolutely no code violation running your network cable alongside your AC.

I have been doing stuff all my life people tell me I can't do becuase they never try and just believe the crap they are told. Try, if you have a problem just separate the two by a couple inches and report back here. And don't buy into the 300 feet cable limitation either. I have one ip camera running on a cable 400 feet with no injector.

David

 

[essjay]

Interesting, thank you. I already have the conduit in place and I've also been considering using some external CAT6 to run either behind or above the conduit to give that little bit of distance. I considered shielded CAT6 but probably little, if any, benefit.

 

[SecuritySeeker]

First, THERE IS NO CODE VIOLATION.

Depends on your location. I looked it up and here in the Netherlands this is against NEN1010, our local safety guidelines for low-voltage installations. Yes they are guidelines and not strictly legally binding (this has gone to court several times actually, the main reason they're not binding is because they are not available for free which is absolutely ridiculous) but if you want to deviate from these guidelines you are required to show that your alternative is equally safe.

Apart from that we agree that interference is very unlikely to be a problem here. We also agree that this is not inherently unsafe by which I mean that the chance of this becoming actually unsafe is very small and if all materials are of good quality, undamaged and properly installed nothing will happen.

In practice though things can happen to make this situation unsafe. For instance if a sharp shard of building debris or whatever got into the conduit during construction. Then when pulling cable that debris could damage the insulation of both power lines and CAT6. Then, perhaps years later, the conduit gets flooded. I'll leave the rest to everbody's imagination.

Likely? Not very much, but all disasters are caused by an unlikely sequence of events and with enough installs like this and given enough time it will happen. And in this case the result could be lethal. I see no reason to take this risk if it's easy to avoid.

I have been doing stuff all my life people tell me I can't do becuase they never try and just believe the crap they are told.

Just because it never went wrong for you (didn't cause an accident, I'm not talking about the interference bit) doesn't mean it can't go wrong. Some things occur so rarely that the chances of one person encountering it are small, but they still happen.

 

[SecuritySeeker]

Interesting, thank you. I already have the conduit in place and I've also been considering using some external CAT6 to run either behind or above the conduit to give that little bit of distance. I considered shielded CAT6 but probably little, if any, benefit.

If that's easy to do just use burial rated cable (or at least outdoor/wet rated) and forget about trying to pull it through the conduit. That's my advice.

 

[SecurityCams]

The damage is remotely possible Which I was not addressing at all as he did not ask about that, I am sure he is smart enough to figure that out on his own. The OP was asking about an private installation on his house - It's a non issue. If he has a problem he can fix it easily we don't need to recommend overkill stuff to him.

Good Grief.. He is talking about running a wire up the side of his house, not the Petagon!

Just because it never went wrong for you (didn't cause an accident, I'm not talking about the interference bit) doesn't mean it can't go wrong. Some things occur so rarely that the chances of one person encountering it are small, but they still happen.

 

[SecurityCams]

Interesting, thank you. I already have the conduit in place and I've also been considering using some external CAT6 to run either behind or above the conduit to give that little bit of distance. I considered shielded CAT6 but probably little, if any, benefit.

Good your doing it right. Shielded cable may provide a little benefit but I would not bother unless you have a problem. Too many people are trying to tell other people to take precautions they themselves won' t bother with when they want to try something.

If its in conduit YOU DON'T NEED SPECIAL OUTDOOR WIRE.

My advice to everyone in this type of work is try it ...My first question is who knows what they are talking about not what they think or heard. Forums have a lot of experts that don't have much real world experience.

More about the possible interference caused by inductive coupling: Last summer I had to locate an underground conduit with cat 5e cables for 3 cameras. I used an underground inductive cable finder that produces a high frequency signal induced into the wire in the conduit. Just for my info I left the cameras hooked up and watched the monitor while inducing this voltage into the cat 5e cables. Admittedly, to my surprise that did not affect the camera video at all. Not one slight deviation or noticeable interference with the cameras or NVR , But I will bet a thousand bucks if I asked about it on this forum first, everyone would have said the sky would fall if I tried that. The cameras are still operating perfectly and there was never an issue with the Hikvision NVR. And I found the conduit.

I will tell you this though, there are some folks on this board that are way way more knowledgeable than I am about Networks and ip cameras and I really appreciate their support here. That is why I came here. Just filter out who answers your questions by what they really know.

David

 

[SecuritySeeker]

I would think that the (possibility of) a lethal shock is as important to the OP as it would be to someone at the Pentagon. I don't see why a private installation should be any less secure, especially if avoiding that particular risk pretty much entirely and without cost or effort is trivial as it appears to be in this case.

We can go back and forth about this but it's not even the technical stuff we disagree about, just about whether or not it's an acceptable risk or not.

Incidentally I don't see where he asked about the possiblity damage, I'm the only one who mentioned it if I'm not mistaken.

Oh and by the way please don't get me started about how things are done in the real world, I know all too well how things are done in the building industry and I cannot count the numbers of times I've heard "we've always done it like that and it has never been a problem". It drives me nuts. Personal experience is anecdotal and does not replace statistics. Just because something wasn't a problem 1000 times doesn't make it safe and doesn't mean it's not going to go wrong the 1001th time.

 

[SecurityCams]

Whatever--- For your world do what you want.

I would think that the (possibility of) a lethal shock is as important to the OP as it would be to someone at the Pentagon. I don't see why a private installation should be any less secure, especially if avoiding that particular risk pretty much entirely and without cost or effort is trivial as it appears to be in this case.

We can go back and forth about this but it's not even the technical stuff we disagree about, just about whether or not it's an acceptable risk or not.

Incidentally I don't see where he asked about the possiblity damage, I'm the only one who mentioned it if I'm not mistaken.

Oh and by the way please don't get me started about how things are done in the real world, I know all too well how things are done in the building industry and I cannot count the numbers of times I've heard "we've always done it like that and it has never been a problem". It drives me nuts. Personal experience is anecdotal and does not replace statistics. Just because something wasn't a problem 1000 times doesn't make it safe and doesn't mean it's not going to go wrong the 1001th time.