Alternatives To Dahua Or Hikvision?

[Dramus]

My plans to acquire another Dahua camera being torpedoed (ref: "Affordable" PTZ Starlight Cam?) and Hikvision having an execrable history of questionable behavior, I wonder what are my affordable options, short of shudder Reolink?

Suggestions on brands at which I should be looking?

Not necessarily a camera as capable as what I was seeking in that thread. Not even necessarily that particular application. Just brands in general?

 

[sebastiantombs]

In the comparable area I think you'll find that the competitors are substantially more expensive. Lower end stuff, Sunba, et al, are not very good, IMHO, and offer very limited control of video parameters which effects performance significantly. If Reolink makes a PTZ I'll save you half the cost of it. Send me half the money you'd spend on it and you keep the other half. You'll save half the price and still be ahead That combined with the relatively small sensors the "off brands" offer and they ain't so hot. Amcrest, Lorex and a bunch of others are usually Dahua or Hikvision rebrands and stripped of features and sometimes even hardware to make them lower priced.

 

[mat200]

My plans to acquire another Dahua camera being torpedoed (ref: "Affordable" PTZ Starlight Cam?) and Hikvision having an execrable history of questionable behavior, I wonder what are my affordable options, short of shudder Reolink?

Suggestions on brands at which I should be looking?

Not necessarily a camera as capable as what I was seeking in that thread. Not even necessarily that particular application. Just brands in general?

Hi @Dramus

With the chip shortage, and supply chain issues.. it will be awhile before we see a good market.

Even before the Pandemic issues - best options where Hikvision or Dahua OEM PTZ outdoor cameras.

I still think that is the place to go for decent quality products.

Amcrest sometimes had some nice deals on Amazon ( have to really watch for it tho.. would last only a short few hours ) when prime day + coupon code stacked on a PTZ camera from Dahua OEM.
( normally would not be a top Dahua OEM model - but the price was good for say a 12x PTZ )

 

[CenterDev]

Can you elaborate on Hikvision history of questionable behavior? Thanks.

 

[Dramus]

Can you elaborate on Hikvision history of questionable behavior? Thanks.

Just type "Hikvision camera security concerns" into your favorite search engine. I don't know as Dahua's any better, but Hikvision has been under more scrutiny.

 

[wittaj]

Hacking vulnerabilities are the same regardless of who makes the cameras...or any IoT for that matter...and that is why most of us here isolate our cameras from the internet...it's just irony that they are surveillance cameras...it flows better saying security cameras are not very secure but many here do not consider them security cameras as they are for surveillance!

And our wonderful government decided to ban Hik and Dahua from government installations due to being partly owned by the Chinese government...yet fail to recognize the real problem are the cameras can be breached and then they get exploited with other manufactures cameras because they failed to isolate them from the internet. End result is people/governments that shouldn't see the camera feeds are now seeing them...

 

[fenderman]

Just type "Hikvision camera security concerns" into your favorite search engine. I don't know as Dahua's any better, but Hikvision has been under more scrutiny.

Lol they all have this problem. If you dont want to spend 5 minuets disabling internet access for the cams, you can pay 3-5x for Axis or Avigilon. Even then you should disable internet access.
What makes you think reolink (a known lying spamming company that makes shitty cameras) is better? They have had many vulnerabilities in the past. Most recently Jan of this year.

reolink security vulnerabilities - Google Search

 

[Dramus]

Lol they all have this problem. If you don't want to spend 5 minuets disabling internet access for the cams, ...

Yes, I know. And, yes: My cams do not have access to the 'net. Nor have they ever.

What makes you think reolink (a known lying spamming company that makes shitty cameras) is better?

I don't. If anything: I trust Reolink less than I do Dahua--and perhaps even Hikvision. I've got a Reolink wireless cam on my network that keeps asking for an additional IP address with varying MAC addresses, none of which identifiably belong to Reolink and some of which the MAC registries claim to belong to other entities. In fact... yes, here's the list, so far:

#
# The Reolink C1 Pro camera has come up with...
#
# 00:1e:dc:76:52:ba; - Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications
# 00:1f:b4:d3:fc:d3; - SmartShare Systems, Denmark
# 00:22:14:89:c4:74; - Rinnai Korea
# 00:24:79:e5:c2:c5; - Optec Displays, Inc., U.S.
# 00:2d:6d:f9:80:b2; - unknown owner
# 00:88:3f:3c:23:c0; - unknown owner
# 00:96:55:d3:a0:3f; - unknown owner
# 00:a4:58:e6:6b:6f; - unknown owner
# 00:b7:09:a5:21:2e; - unknown owner
# 00:e8:6c:e7:25:58; - unknown owner
# 00:fc:41:8f:bd:dc; - unknown owner
# 00:fe:a1:bf:90:50; - unknown owner
#
# It seems to invent new ones on-the-fly
#

This question was not borne of security concerns, but usability concerns. (I tagged you in one of the two relevant threads.) If I cannot configure a camera I cannot use it. If I cannot get a decent (FSVO "decent") camera for good money, why spend good money on a camera?

Btw: That $85 Reolink PTZ cam I bought 3-1/2 years ago, aside from that wonky, questionable network behavior and the fact it's image quality ain't all that great, has never given me a lick of trouble.

 

[fenderman]

This question was not borne of security concerns, but usability concerns. (I tagged you in one of the two relevant threads.) If I cannot configure a camera I cannot use it. If I cannot get a decent (FSVO "decent") camera for good money, why spend good money on a camera?

If security is not a concern why did you mention ONLY security issues....what is your issue with hik or dahua?
There are many other brands discussed, univew, hanwa, etc..but without knowing what the problems you are having its impossible to recommend an alternative.

 

[Dramus]

If security is not a concern why did you mention ONLY security issues....what is your issue with hik or dahua?

I mentioned security issues specifically wrt to Hikvision cameras because somebody asked why I preferred to avoid them. And, yes, I know: Dahua is little, if any, better than Hik in this respect.

There are many other brands discussed, univew, hanwa, etc..but without knowing what the problems you are having its impossible to recommend an alternative.

Fair point.

Rather than my re-writing it here, please see:

Review - Dahua SD49225XA-HNR 2MP 25x Starlight + IR PTZ AI Camera with Deep IVS & SMD Plus

To answer the question about target size, it is currently at 32. Anywhere from 30-32 it does the best. This issue is it didn't have this problem a couple days ago. It just started struggling to get the initial track as you can see in videos. @Wildcat_1 where do I find the "Autohome" setting...

ipcamtalk.com

For those that do not know...use IE browser for Dahua (and others?) camera GUI to see more options

I've been using Chrome since I bought my first Dahua camera from Andy last year (the good 'ol 4231's). I was able to log in, see menu options, do the config, save, logout....all done. Always wondered how folks were able to see the AI detection boxes livestream and other stuff which I thought...

ipcamtalk.com

Firmware & Firefox / Chrome support

Hi, I have the DS-2CD2347G1-L and the DS-2CD2143G0-I camera. It's running the latest firmware listed on the site, IPC_G1_EN_STD_5.6.3_190923. Is there going to be a newer firmware that doesn't require plugins and or IE11?

ipcamtalk.com

I did refer to one of these in my OP.

 

[VorlonFrog]

Hikvision has actively bricked cameras with a boot loop when they found things they didn't like during firmware installations. That's a Bozo no-no. The user bought and owns the camera, and can do whatever the fark they want with it, INCLUDING applying (some might say hacking) other firmware onto it. Hikvision thought they should just disable the camera and call it "bricked". And they won't help you fix it, either. In fact, they won't even answer you. period.

 

[Dramus]

Hikvision has actively bricked cameras with a boot loop when they found things they didn't like during firmware installations. ... And they won't help you fix it, either. In fact, they won't even answer you. period.

In all fairness to Hikvision: That's quite a bit different from security issues, back doors, and designed-in browser incompatibility. I don't really blame Hik for that.

If you read @EMPIRETECANDY's cautions on "Chinese hacked" Dahua cams, you'll see plenty of warnings about applying official Dahua firmware upgrades to such cameras. Same thing: It'll probably brick 'em.

Though one would prefer that, rather than brick the device when such a thing was encountered, they'd merely refuse to perform the update/upgrade.

 

[slamb]

I'm also looking for alternatives to Dahua and Hikvision. I'm happy with the technical quality of the cameras I already own from these brands, but IPVM says both these companies are writing custom software for genocide (Dahua, Hikvision). I can firewall away poor security practices and work around bugs, but I won't knowingly give money to a company that is actively supporting genocide. I know I'm not exactly going to bring them to their knees with my boycott, considering I'm a tiny consumer customer and most of their business is probably in China anyway, but I still don't want to support them even in a small way.

So...really, what's the next best thing in the same price range? Not any Dahua/Hikvision rebrands either, so no Lorex/Amcrest. I hear folks hating on Reolink, but I think they might be the one left standing. Any better options?

 

[fenderman]

I'm also looking for alternatives to Dahua and Hikvision. I'm happy with the technical quality of the cameras I already own from these brands, but IPVM says both these companies are writing custom software for genocide (Dahua, Hikvision). I can firewall away poor security practices and work around bugs, but I won't give money to a company that is actively supporting genocide. I know I'm not exactly going to bring them to their knees with my boycott, considering I'm a tiny consumer customer and most of their business is probably in China anyway, but I still don't want to support them even in a small way.

So...really, what's the next best thing in the same price range? Not any Dahua/Hikvision rebrands either, so no Lorex/Amcrest. I hear folks hating on Reolink, I think they might be the one left standing. Any better options?

uniview, hanwah
...reolink is complete shit and a lying and spamming company with fake reviews. That said, do you know anything about reolink or any other china made brand? who they support? etc? Your cell phone is made in china providing many more billions of dollars to the ccp than hik or dahua could ever. You can look at much more expensive brands like avigilon and axis, but at that point you will do much more good in the world if you take that money and use it for a greater good.

 

[slamb]

I'm not trying to avoid Chinese manufacturing chains altogether (basically impossible), but I am going to avoid companies that I believe are writing software for genocide. We all have our own lines; that kind of direct involvement is the one I've drawn.

Thanks for the recommendation of Uniview and Hanwha. Where do folks buy those brands and find product reviews? The Uniview section of the forum here looks pretty quiet.

 

[fenderman]

I'm not trying to avoid Chinese manufacturing chains altogether (basically impossible), but I am going to avoid companies that I believe are writing software for genocide. We all have our own lines; that kind of direct involvement is the one I've drawn.

Thanks for the recommendation of Uniview and Hanwha. Where do folks buy those brands and find product reviews? The Uniview section of the forum here looks pretty quiet.

You wont find much about them. They are priced higher and not as easy to get. See the reviews on ipvm/ youtube if available.

 

[slamb]

I might just buy one of their budget models as an experiment then. Thanks.

 

[Dramus]

Thanks for the recommendation of Uniview and Hanwha. Where do folks buy those brands and find product reviews? The Uniview section of the forum here looks pretty quiet.

Aye, an' there's the rub.

One advantage to Hik and Dahua is their popularity here on IPCT. So you can get a pretty good idea of what you're buying beforehand. (Plus, let us not forget, Andy's support and his apparent ability to get those manufacturers to [sometimes?] fix stuff.) These other brands? Lacking product performance coverage: They're a craps shoot.

Example: I bought a pair of Hanwha cams off a fellow forum member. May have turned out to have been money wasted. They're great cameras. Nicer than the Dahua cams I have in many respects. Only one problem: In the environment in which I'm placing them there's not enough light to persuade them to transition from B&W into color. It's not that there's not more than enough light to support a good, clear image in color. If I force them into color, then set them back to auto, they'll stay in color as long as the lights stay on. Once the lights go out and they go into B&W, there they stay--even if I artificially raise the light level to well above the level that keeps them in color once forced.

My seller is still working with me on it, but I fear these may be destined for the electronics scrap heap

Let me be clear: I'm not blaming the seller. Or even Hanwha. (Though I can't imagine what the latter's engineers were thinking, setting the color/B&W transition hysteresis so bloody wide on these things.) I suspect the cams were designed for business/commercial settings, where the lighting is generally much brighter than in most residential settings. My point is: Had there been reviews, had there been user experiences posted here--or anywhere, I might have known what to expect and avoided them.

As for Reolink: They're cheap cams, even compared to Hik and Dahua, but... While its image quality ain't that great, that stupid little $85 Reolink PTZ cam I bought four years ago just keeps on truckin'. If we can't get those Hanwha cams to play nice, I'll end up putting it back. At least it knows how to switch back into color

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Thanks for the recommendation of Uniview and Hanwha. Where do folks buy those brands and find product reviews? The Uniview section of the forum here looks pretty quiet.

The Hanwha Techwin name was suggested to us more recently after the Hikvision debacle. Ordered a Hanwha Techwin WiseNet Lite SND-L6013R 2MP Network Dome from B&H Photo and the product actually received is branded as iPOLiS which is a Samsung product. A little more digging revealed Samsung had owned Techwin at one point, but sold it off to Hanwha Holdings. Long story short, they are still selling off older inventory from before the sale.

Hanwha Techwin has (too) many cameras, which is (in part) how I ended up here at IPCT to get better educated on deciphering the various aspects of IP cameras.

 

[Hawthorne-IS]

Whatever you look at, examine carefully who actually made them. Dahua and Hikvision make the overwhelming majority of cameras for other brand names, and a fair number also use their hardware with a proprietary firmware. A lot of the "security concerns" over Hik and Dahua are old. Both were banned from US sales at one point, but that's old news. Whether they become a risk again is another matter, but they seem to be playing nice now, and most of your hacks (most) are do to improper network setups, not the cameras themselves. Nothing is really absolute, but don't forgo a Hik or Dahua in favor of another brand that really is just an OEM of Hik or Dahua.