Teeling611
Pulling my weight
When using the AI function in BI are the cameras required to be AI cameras or does BI do all the magic With any camera?
AI CAMERAS
- Thread starter Teeling611
- Start date
That is the beauty of the BI and AI - it can be done with any camera that BI can use (obviously tossing out the consumer grade cloud based stuff that is proprietary like Ring LOL).
I was using BI AI with some cheap no-name $40 cams I was using as an overview camera.
I was using BI AI with some cheap no-name $40 cams I was using as an overview camera.
Teeling611
Pulling my weight
Thanks what would be an inexpensive but good camera I could purchase before buying others? Something to experiment with.
Mike A.
Known around here
- Joined
- May 6, 2017
- Messages
- 3,833
- Reaction score
- 6,394
Cheap Amcrest (Dahua OEM) that are better than they should be for the price. Don't pay $58. They're regularly on sale for at least $10 off of that:
Inexpensive Dahua that has on-cam IVS AI so you could compare using that vs BI. Also come in 3.6mm which might be better:
Inexpensive Dahua that has on-cam IVS AI so you could compare using that vs BI. Also come in 3.6mm which might be better:
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
I would suggest this one: Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua) | IP Cam Talk
It can be used in most any location you would need it, and has good nighttime vision.
If money is really tight then this one: Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal | IP Cam Talk
Teeling611
Pulling my weight
Thanks I’m sure these are very good choices but way out of my league. Really tight is what MikeA suggested. I won’t spend more than $100 I really don’t think it’s necessary for my needs.
We have all said that lol.
I have a box full of cameras where I tried to cheap out and didn't cut it.
Sensor size matters at night. The cheap cams use small sensors made for 720P and 1080P so they need a lot more light trying to push 4 or 8MP thru it.
Teeling611
Pulling my weight
I understand but I have a specific need and just ok will do me fine. I drive à Ford sedan but I’d much rather drive a Mercedes. Everything has its place in life.
Just keep in mind that the cheap cameras play with the image at night to favor a bright static image over everything else, so if you are hoping to ID perps, it will be problematic. Watching a pet probably ok.
But since you are talking about using BI AI, you need to know the full picture as it relates to almost any low end consumer grade cheap camera. I have a cheapo camera for overview purposes so it doesn't matter, but it exhibits this same behavior even though in the settings I can set an iframe...
This was a screenshot of a member here where they had set these cameras to 15FPS 15 iframes within the cameras:
Now look at they key - that is the iframes. Blue Iris works best when the FPS and the iframes match. Now this is a ratio, so it should be a 1 if it matches the FPS. The iframes not matching (that you cannot fix or change with a reolink) is why they miss motion in Blue Iris and why people have problems. This is mainly why people are having issues with these cameras and there are many threads showing the issues people have with this manufacturer and Blue Iris. It is these same games that make the camera look great as a still image or video but turn to crap once motion is introduced.
The Blue Iris developer has indicated that for best reliability, sub stream frame rate should be equal to the main stream frame rate and these cameras cannot do that and there is nothing you can do about that with these cameras... The iframe rates (something these cameras do not allow you to set) should equal the FPS, but at worse case be no more than double. This example shows the cameras going down to a keyrate of 0.25 means that the iframe rates are over 4 times the FPS and that is why motion detection is a disaster with these cameras and Blue Iris...A value of 0.5 or less is considered insufficient to trust for motion triggers reliably...try to do DeepStack and it will be useless...
Compounding the matter even worse...motion detection is based on the substream and look at the substream FPS - they dropped down to below 6 FPS with an iframe/key rate of 0.25 - you will miss motion most of the time with that issue... A KEY of 0.25 means any object that can be in and out of the field of view within 4 seconds may be completely missed.
We have seen people come here with a KEY of 0.1, which means any object that can be in and out of the camera view in under 10 seconds will be missed as a trigger.
Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either.
Now compare above to mine and cameras that follow industry standards that allow you to actually set parameters and they don't manipulate them. You will see that my FPS match what I set in the camera, and the 1.00 key means the iframe matches:
That is why we recommend the Amcrest. Even though it is cheap camera on a less than ideal MP/sensor ratio, you can at least set the parameters to the proper settings to give it fighting chance to somewhat work.
But since you are talking about using BI AI, you need to know the full picture as it relates to almost any low end consumer grade cheap camera. I have a cheapo camera for overview purposes so it doesn't matter, but it exhibits this same behavior even though in the settings I can set an iframe...
This was a screenshot of a member here where they had set these cameras to 15FPS 15 iframes within the cameras:
Now look at they key - that is the iframes. Blue Iris works best when the FPS and the iframes match. Now this is a ratio, so it should be a 1 if it matches the FPS. The iframes not matching (that you cannot fix or change with a reolink) is why they miss motion in Blue Iris and why people have problems. This is mainly why people are having issues with these cameras and there are many threads showing the issues people have with this manufacturer and Blue Iris. It is these same games that make the camera look great as a still image or video but turn to crap once motion is introduced.
The Blue Iris developer has indicated that for best reliability, sub stream frame rate should be equal to the main stream frame rate and these cameras cannot do that and there is nothing you can do about that with these cameras... The iframe rates (something these cameras do not allow you to set) should equal the FPS, but at worse case be no more than double. This example shows the cameras going down to a keyrate of 0.25 means that the iframe rates are over 4 times the FPS and that is why motion detection is a disaster with these cameras and Blue Iris...A value of 0.5 or less is considered insufficient to trust for motion triggers reliably...try to do DeepStack and it will be useless...
Compounding the matter even worse...motion detection is based on the substream and look at the substream FPS - they dropped down to below 6 FPS with an iframe/key rate of 0.25 - you will miss motion most of the time with that issue... A KEY of 0.25 means any object that can be in and out of the field of view within 4 seconds may be completely missed.
We have seen people come here with a KEY of 0.1, which means any object that can be in and out of the camera view in under 10 seconds will be missed as a trigger.
Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either.
Now compare above to mine and cameras that follow industry standards that allow you to actually set parameters and they don't manipulate them. You will see that my FPS match what I set in the camera, and the 1.00 key means the iframe matches:
That is why we recommend the Amcrest. Even though it is cheap camera on a less than ideal MP/sensor ratio, you can at least set the parameters to the proper settings to give it fighting chance to somewhat work.
Teeling611
Pulling my weight
This is a great writeup and the scaring thing is I kind of understand what you’re saying.Just keep in mind that the cheap cameras play with the image at night to favor a bright static image over everything else, so if you are hoping to ID perps, it will be problematic. Watching a pet probably ok.
But since you are talking about using BI AI, you need to know the full picture as it relates to almost any low end consumer grade cheap camera. I have a cheapo camera for overview purposes so it doesn't matter, but it exhibits this same behavior even though in the settings I can set an iframe...
This was a screenshot of a member here where they had set these cameras to 15FPS 15 iframes within the cameras:
Now look at they key - that is the iframes. Blue Iris works best when the FPS and the iframes match. Now this is a ratio, so it should be a 1 if it matches the FPS. The iframes not matching (that you cannot fix or change with a reolink) is why they miss motion in Blue Iris and why people have problems. This is mainly why people are having issues with these cameras and there are many threads showing the issues people have with this manufacturer and Blue Iris. It is these same games that make the camera look great as a still image or video but turn to crap once motion is introduced.
The Blue Iris developer has indicated that for best reliability, sub stream frame rate should be equal to the main stream frame rate and these cameras cannot do that and there is nothing you can do about that with these cameras... The iframe rates (something these cameras do not allow you to set) should equal the FPS, but at worse case be no more than double. This example shows the cameras going down to a keyrate of 0.25 means that the iframe rates are over 4 times the FPS and that is why motion detection is a disaster with these cameras and Blue Iris...A value of 0.5 or less is considered insufficient to trust for motion triggers reliably...try to do DeepStack and it will be useless...
Compounding the matter even worse...motion detection is based on the substream and look at the substream FPS - they dropped down to below 6 FPS with an iframe/key rate of 0.25 - you will miss motion most of the time with that issue... A KEY of 0.25 means any object that can be in and out of the field of view within 4 seconds may be completely missed.
We have seen people come here with a KEY of 0.1, which means any object that can be in and out of the camera view in under 10 seconds will be missed as a trigger.
Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either.
Now compare above to mine and cameras that follow industry standards that allow you to actually set parameters and they don't manipulate them. You will see that my FPS match what I set in the camera, and the 1.00 key means the iframe matches:
That is why we recommend the Amcrest. Even though it is cheap camera on a less than ideal MP/sensor ratio, you can at least set the parameters to the proper settings to give it fighting chance to somewhat work.
LOL you have come a long way in a short time LOL.
Just don't go crazy and buy 4 cheapo LOL.
Buy one and test it for a couple days at each location you plan to put a camera and see if it fits your needs.
Nothing worse than buying a $50 camera and getting rid of it within 9 months and buying the $120 camera to replace it LOL.
Looney here says often buy once, cry once LOL.
Scary to think how many good cameras I could buy had I not bought the collection of misc other cameras before finding this site LOL.
Great post from today showing the $50 Amcrest in action as a data point on if this is sufficient for your needs.
ipcamtalk.com
Deer in the back yard...
This is from a $50 Amcrest camera that I could never rely on for ID of anyone, but I get to see the deer that come through on occasion...
What @wittaj says here is spot on--- emphasis on the "IF"...Great post from today showing the $50 Amcrest in action as a data point on if this is sufficient for your needs.
Deer in the back yard...
This is from a $50 Amcrest camera that I could never rely on for ID of anyone, but I get to see the deer that come through on occasion...
Look closely at that video-- you will see partially "through" the close deer as it walks by-- ghosting. I could probably tweak that a bit more to reduce it, but it is a constant give and take between the different settings. Check this out--- last night there was enough reflected light from low overcast that it stayed in color mode all night...
Now--- if a person or deer had walked through the yard last night-- the video performance would have been absolutely laughably BAD as the settings for this are good for full daylight. I don't rely on this cam to ID anything though-- just an overview cam and for wildlife-- more like "pleasure" viewing.
observant1
Pulling my weight
what is the sensor size?