A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Friday

nayr

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bigredfish

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

I choose to not advertise. For the same reason I'm not a fan of open carry, I prefer concealed and prefer not to openly advertise (signage) that I have firearms in the house. I want the element of surprise. I found out the hard way some years ago when a druggie cretin broke in and stole an unsecured firearm (hugely dumb move on my part that I deeply regret to this day) because a neighbor had mentioned it to him. I've since taken extra precautions at securing same, including a surprise or two even if they were able to locate the safe ;) I think it depends on the area in which you live also, my Bro-in-law is Ex PA Trooper and lives in rural PA where locking doors is considered paranoid and something only city folk do.

There is some evidence that BG's are more careful nowadays with a greater percentage of the population armed. Contrary to popular liberal media babbling, violent crime has been on a downward trajectory since the concealed carry laws began in the late 80's and peaked in 1991. That said, openly advertising is an invitation IMHO as BG's can't seem to resist stealing firearms.


I do though love the signs that say "We don't call 911" with a picture of a Sig, but.....
 

PSPCommOp

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

Thank you @bigredfish and @PSPCommOp.

Fellas, tell me your opinion: Does signaling (signs?) that the property owner is armed (1) act as a deterrent and discourage crimes committed against the property, (2) encourage crimes to be committed against the property or (3) have a no effect either.

I understand that this is conjecture, however, I appreciate your opinions.
I've heard confessions that show both working for and against the homeowner. Some said it acted as a deterrent (although a big barking dog does a much better job as far as I've seen) causing them to skip a particular house or two. Some said it made the home a bigger target knowing that once they got inside they would have access to firearms they could then sell on the street.

In rural areas, most commonly both adults in a household work and if there were children, normally they go to school. This leaves the house unattended for some 6-8 hours a day or so. All it takes is a patient scumbag a few days to park outside a development around a certain time and notice what cars leave. Then take a drive thru and see if any cars remain in the driveway. Do this a few times in week and you get a very good idea of what homes are vacant during the day and which ones aren't. Its that simple. That's why I always tell people who have had their homes burglarized... If you notice any suspicious cars in the area, or strange individuals u haven't seen before wandering around in the neighborhood, get a good description and if possible, a license plate. You can always call and report it and have the police check the area but the more info that is obtained the better in case someone is up to no good. Correct license plates are as good as gold when it comes to this kind of investigation. This is why I really like the idea of ALPRs. Even if you weren't the victim, you could help with a neighbor who was burglarized and possibly prevent any future incidents if the suspect is picked up quickly. Its not a coincidence that burglaries occur in clusters.

Its also why people should realize most of these camera systems we talk about and install here are REACTIVE and not PROACTIVE or preventative. I think I've heard nayr and a few others say the same thing multiple times in other threads: Cameras alone aren't very good deterrents which is why better quality cameras that can provide identifiable pictures/video are important.

On a personal note, I don't like the idea of broadcasting the fact that I have firearms in the house. If someone wants in, they can probably get in, its just a matter of being patient and waiting for the best opportunity. Whether their target is guns, jewelry, electronics or whatever. The less someone else knows about me, my family and what I have in my home the better. Its also why I cringe when I see the family stick figure stickers on peoples cars. You never know who is watching and devoting their time to try and take your shit or harm you and your family.

Also @bigredfish, while I am a firm believe in the 2nd Amendment, I despise Open Carry assholes (save those who wear them openly while hunting, atv riding in the woods, etc). Yes its your right to do so thanks to antiquated laws but it serves no purpose other then drawing attention to yourself. People don't see it and think, "hmm, please explain this law to me further", they see it and think look at this asshole, obviously his elevator doesn't reach the top floor so I'm going to dial 911. You wanna act like a responsible adult, invest in a decent holster and conceal with it with shirt, jacket, pant leg, etc. Train with it so you are proficient and there is no way it will inhibit you from drawing if need be. Millions of responsible CCW permit holders do this every day.
 
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bigredfish

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

I'd say we agree completely PSPCommOp, you just said it more eloquently ;)

BTW you aren't around the Mansfield PA barracks are you? That's where Bro-in-law retired from about 2-3 years ago..
 

nayr

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

just making sure; I am anti-sticker.. bumper stickers, political signs, nra, leo, or military, corporate logos or even religious icons just attracts far more vandalism than good.. I debadged my TDI days after I bought it and years before the scandal broke out; now everyone hates TDI's and stupid Prius owners been vandalizing em.

lay low and maintain secops.. dont appear to be an easy target; but also dont appear to be overly hardened either.. dont talk about firearms with neighbors unless you also hunt w/em or can trust them to maintain secops.

prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

the only reason I share so much data on my video system is because they are sooo reactive and easy to defeat, if they were part of my active security you'd know far less about what my cameras can do.
 

Q™

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

I choose to not advertise...
...I don't like the idea of broadcasting...
Thanks for your opinions. It sounds like you fellas are proponents of what many "survivalists" describe as the "Gray Man" approach...

...the Gray Man is someone who could be anyone...a person capable of stepping in and out of compromising scenarios without being noticed or threatened. For the average person being “gray” means not being a target for predators. The Gray Man is the guy who presents no particular reward for an attack, but also does not appear to be a weakling waiting to be victimized. The Gray Man is in between. He is neither blinged-out nor loud, but also not a head-down, foot-shuffling sheep. Being the Gray Man is about a mindset and means flowing through locations and scenarios that allow you to avoid problems and survive...
 

PSPCommOp

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

I would def agree with that. You just need to be prepared for a Gray Man that tries to do harm as opposed to just staying out of the eyes of predators.
 

Q™

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

I would def agree with that. You just need to be prepared for a Gray Man that tries to do harm as opposed to just staying out of the eyes of predators.
Which, IMO, seems to lead us to that survivalist tome "On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs...

...If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath--a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero’s path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed...
...or dead smiley33.gif

I dunno...this whole topic can devolve into ninja bullshit real fast.
 

PSPCommOp

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

Haha yeah I'm fully aware of the Sheep, Sheepdog and Wolf


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Razer

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

I will say that in my case cameras have actually been a pretty major deterrent. Where I work we have 100 properties, several years back we had a few cameras at some properties. Properties with little coverage will still experience break ins in uncovered areas. Once cameras were added to fully cover locations the break ins were either stopped, or majorly reduced. I now have upwards of 1300 cameras and a much, much smaller break in problem. Small enough real break ins are now unusual at any given location.

Yes you will still get people from time to time who are just going to wear a mask and ignore the cameras, a few cases where you'll have someone who will try and cut camera cords and such and still come in. Very rare though. Had several instances of this a couple years ago and once finally caught it was the same guy each location so it was not a rash of people, just one pain in the rear. Have video of him getting tazed on property once finally caught which made me feel a little better about the whole thing.

Location several years ago had cameras up front but not the back, back was broken into at least 10 times over a couple years by multiple perps. Installed cameras everywhere and three motion sensors. Not a single break in in three years now and as far as we're aware no one has tried. Well, I did get someone walking clear around the fence once but he was picked up by a car on the far side and never tried to come in. Several locations with no cameras had many issues, cameras installed and issues virtually disappeared.

They are by no means a magic bullet, but they do lessen the chances quite a bit in my experience. Still happens, had two arrests yesterday and I had just a tiny amount of footage but it was still enough to catch them. Got lucky, but I'll take that too! Really the cameras pay for themselves in other issues they catch, customers hitting fences, gates, whatever. I had someone in a U-Haul hit something two nights ago that caused $1000 in damage. I have plate and truck number and it will be no problem to get the $1000. That pays for almost every camera on that property in a single hit. Totally worth it.

Plus with so many cameras I always, always have something amazing caught that we get to share in the office and laugh or shake our heads at. I have a "best of" folder full of funny clips.
 

spork

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

imho a quality alarm system should always come before cameras. A blasting siren with strobes can often send them on their way and avoid a situation like this all together. At the very least you have a good warning in case you don't hear the entry. Its nice having cams but I think many over estimate their usefulness as a deterrent. There is also no guarantee a cam will help you identify someone after the fact either.

I also hope that most firearm owners keep up on their training because someone taking pot shots out their front door at a burglar is scary too.
 

nayr

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

typically commercial surveillance is leaps and bounds better performing than most people's residental hack jobs.. they can do the math.. I was willing to spend a couple grand on video surveillance after I lost a couple grand in property.. I suspect most criminals see any commercial property w/out cameras a very soft target.. and ones with them are likely to have paid security watching the video and thus a very hard target.. for a commercial property with lots of high value targets about, you just have to assume someone is watching you in realtime.

now since i put up video surveillance have I lost any more property? nope; but gotta be careful w/causation.. I am much more diligent than I was before, and the cameras let me react and confront people fucking with my shit.. they didnt really stop trying to steal my shit, but now they run when I come out the door swinging a louisville slugger... I can also visibly check all vehicles are locked at night before i go to sleep so that helps a ton... if I dont see that red blinking LED in my cars then I go find the fobs and hit lock.

Since residental jobs rarely include permanent monitoring stations, or quality equipment capable of being very useful, wrong lens selection, or adequate number of cameras because they are trying to do the impossible with minimum effort and cost.. overall they are much less threatening I think to the criminal mind.. and a perfect way to catch em off guard when you do have a capable system.
 

Q™

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

...I also hope that most firearm owners keep up on their training because someone taking pot shots out their front door at a burglar is scary too.
Good advice.
 

spork

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

Actively monitoring cams would certainly make them more useful but what about when your not? Not being sarcastic but a serious question. I know a lot of people set up motion detection alerts but it seems difficult to reduce false alarms without a pir. I keep my car in the garage but not everyone has that option. I'm more talking about if someone kicks in your door etc while your sleeping. I also know people who have been broken into through tiny basement windows that you wouldnt think a adult could go through or even try.

My house was broken into when I wasn't home. Everything was ransacked. They took pillow cases and filled it with videos, a few game systems, brand new flatscreen tv (when they were a lot more money), my favorite flashlight, and even my coat. I know they at least had some kind of knife because they cut cords to pull items quicker. The experience has certainly made me more cautious after having my private space invaded.

I think alarms and cams compliment each other and I wouldn't want to be without either. However I'm the only one in the house that pays attention to the cams and the alarm is much better at alerting me or family without false alarms.
 

nayr

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

cameras should not be used for alerts, thats the job of alarms your right.. noisy alarms are basically worthless, you'll train your self to ignore them pretty much instantly.. just human nature, the boy who called wolf. Real sensors that never false are worth every penny and hassle they present, because you can respond accordingly every time w/out questioning it.. I use pre-recorded voice alerts at home, when I hear 'the mailbox was just accessed' at 1am, I respond accordingly without hesitation.. because its only ever done that when some punk was going through everyone's mailboxes.

do what you can to slow em down, all the displays in my house are secured with kingston security cables to the studs behind.. when your holding a big ass TV in one hand trying to use some bolt cutters with the other hand is kinda hard.. I know because just because locking and unlocking em sucks and I usually need a hand.. If my house gets broken into I expect to find my displays broken and hanging from the wall because they got pissed and just dropped it and let it hang.. but better they destroy it than get to enjoy it imho.

harden your door so it cannot be kicked in easily, you need steel reinforcement.. and a dog, or two.

one of the most effective and cheap security automation tricks Ive found over the years is a simple garage door closer; we get alot of garages robbed here because they get left open and unattended.. for like $35 you can hook up a device to your manual close button that'll ensure its never accidentally left open.. it only takes once and this will do well to help ensure that one time from ever happening.
 
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code2

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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid

Interesting the 3rd one ran back into the house and she completely ignored it. Could have been the end of her had he come out of that room and popped her
 
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