50,000 Foot Questions

T

tupdegrove

n3wb
Aug 29, 2024
9
1
USA
Newbie that's been reading here a lot. Have few questions:

1. I understand two NICs are needed for BI PC: One connected to router and one to PoE switch with cameras. How do you get two NICs into SFF PC (HP EliteDesk 800 G6 SFF Intel Core i5-10500) like below?

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HP EliteDesk 800 G6 SFF Intel Core i5-10500 512GB SSD 1TB HD 16GB RAM Win 11 Pro | eBay

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2. If a business is running BI, would they only record DORI events and not record 24/7? I'm thinking about the case with 20-30 4MP IP cameras that would take 40+ TB to cover 30 days. I see they have 24 TB Purple drives. Would someone put two into the above PC?

3. Is there a guide somewhere to figure out the type of CPU needed for 20-30 4MP IP cameras?

4. I've seen some mention of using a high-end graphics card? What scenario is that useful?
 
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tupdegrove said:
1. I understand two NICs are needed for BI PC: One connected to router and one to PoE switch with cameras. How do you get two NICs into SFF PC (HP EliteDesk 800 G6 SFF Intel Core i5-10500) like below?
Click to expand...
2 NICs are only required if you want to use your blue iris pc to segment your network and isolate the cameras. To add a second NIC, you just need a low profile PCIe NIC. Some NICs come with interchangeable pieces.
 
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The computer already has one ethernet port (NIC). The 2nd NIC is a simple PCIe card addition to the motherboard, or use an ethernet to USB adapter (but don't use that for the cameras, use that for the internet).

It is best to record 24/7 so that you don't miss an event and can piece together what happened. With the use of substreams, the storage requirements can be a lot less (obviously setup and number of triggers dictate that)

A 10th gen is more than capable of running that many cameras. Heck with doing the BI optimizations, people run 50 cameras on a 4th gen.

A graphics card is only needed if you plan to use CodeProject AI instead of the camera AI. Otherwise the graphics card is a resource hog, power consumer, and adds nothing to the system.
 
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You could negate the 2nd NIC hassle with a VLAN router/switch?

Asus expertwifi ebr63 with vlan

Came across this asus unit that is affordable and easy to setup with vlan support. This is one feature that is lacking in almost all easy to use home routers. It is only 150 bux. In the past I have recommended the synology rt6600 or wrx560 which are priced at 300 and 220 respectively. I just...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
 
Background: Church is getting bids for security cameras. I need to learn more details but concerned a "VW Beetle" (no offensive to you lovers out there!) may be installed at the price of a Ferrari. I've read older church threads. Is there a list of good security companies (besides Andy)? Location is Eastern PA. Trying to gather enough knowledge to see if this is something we could install/setup ourselves. This forum has a wealth of unbelievable knowledge and experience.

wittaj said:
It is best to record 24/7 so that you don't miss an event and can piece together what happened. With the use of substreams, the storage requirements can be a lot less (obviously setup and number of triggers dictate that)
Click to expand...

I thought the full stream (highest resolution) was recorded and substreams were used for other stuff like live views. If you only record substreams, couldn't you buy say a 2 MP camera and record the full stream instead of buying 4 MP camera and recording substream? For example, IPC-B54IR-ZE-S3 has four streams. What would be the Mbits/sec (or storage space) for those streams at say 10 or 15 FPS? The full stream would be ~3 Mbits/sec, right?

wittaj said:
A 10th gen is more than capable of running that many cameras. Heck with doing the BI optimizations, people run 50 cameras on a 4th gen.
Click to expand...

So even a 6th gen (I5? or I7?) would be sufficient?
 
You won't find anyone cheaper than Andy. Go to an authorized USA Dahua seller and you will pay 3-5 times more and they may not sell to you unless they also install...big bucks lol!

Substream is recorded when no motion and then when the camera is triggered then it records mainstream.

Or you can record 24/7 mainstream, but the substream option gets you more storage and better than record on motion only.

Yes if you have a 6th Gen laying around it is fine. That would still be the recommended computer except it can't run Win11, so the recommendation is 8th Gen or newer. But someone here last week had a 3rd gen laying around and fired it up and works just fine for his system!
 
Thanks so much. I was thinking is there a list of contractors/companies that would spec and install everything? Seems like the choice is do it our self (and buy from Andy; maybe electrical contractor to pull hard to get at wires) or have company do everything.

Ah, that's neat about substreams.

Believe 10-15 FPS is sufficient, right? Can you point me to any resources to figure out Mbits/sec for various streams? From Mbits/sec, I can use a storage calculator to see what is needed for those 20-30 cameras.

So Win11 is fine? I didn't research much yet but so some conflicting info.

If a SFF system has two HDDs, can BI write to both or must RAID be used to construct one big volume?
 
There isn't a list here of installers, so you would have to do google searches.

Your approach of buying cameras and hiring a low voltage installer is a common plan. Check references.

Win11 is fine for BI.

RAID is not recommended for BI or this type of application. Bi can write to several drives at some time.

The wiki has the calculator you are looking for

Calculating Required Hard Drive Size

We have built a calculator for you to use and save your results. Click here to use it. To calculate required storage space for cameras, you only need to know two things: The average bit rate, and the amount of time. Then multiply them together with Google, being careful to use the correct...
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Yes, I saw that storage calc. Does D1 stream have a standard fixed Mbits/sec? Not sure what to pick in calc for IPC-B54IR-ZE-S3 d1 stream.
 
you can match it to the mainstream fps , but yeah it usually runs about 384Kbps to 512Kbps....
 
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tupdegrove said:
Yes, I saw that storage calc. Does D1 stream have a standard fixed Mbits/sec? Not sure what to pick in calc for IPC-B54IR-ZE-S3 d1 stream.
Click to expand...

Nothing has a standard fixed bit rate. With any decent camera, you get to assign the bit rate yourself for every stream, so it is truly a matter of preference and you can try to balance the quality with your storage concerns and be more conservative on less important cameras. They don't all need to be the same.

For sub streams, I try to strike a balance between visual quality and disk usage. For the most part, if it looks good in my "All cameras" grid view, that is good enough for me.

My typical sub stream encoding parameters are:
  • D1 resolution (whatever size is about 480 pixels high)
  • VBR mode (variable bit rate)
  • Medium quality (3 or 4 on a scale of 1-6)
  • Bit rate of 768 or 1024 Kbps
  • Frame rate and i-frame interval match whatever is assigned for the main stream.

VBR mode is effectively a "constant quality" mode where the camera will use only as much bit rate as it needs to achieve your quality target. The assigned bit rate in a VBR configuration is just an upper limit. The camera will not be allowed to go above that assigned bit rate, but it is free to go lower.

For less important cameras, I may run them at a reduced frame rate (e.g. 10 or 15 FPS) because that allows me to use a lower bit rate (like 256 or 512 Kbps for sub stream) while retaining more of the visual quality than it would at 30 FPS.

Main streams I typically run with a much greater emphasis on quality:
  • Maximum resolution available
  • CBR mode (constant bit rate)
  • Bit rate very high, like the maximum available in the dropdown list in the camera's interface, or maybe even higher as is often possible by entering a custom value.

I do not typically expect main streams to be recorded very often, so going a little overboard on the bit rate is not a major problem.
 
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For a business, there will be expected actively on some/all cameras during business hours. That is, storage demands are probably greater for a business than a home with outdoor "perimeter" deployment.
 
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