5 switches, 1 nvr - how to use the uplink ports"2" on each switch?

[Mike A.]

View attachment 136850
The recomended bit rate is from an Amcrest IP Camera setup article. The frame rate for each 8Mp cam is 15-FPS with a CBR of 2048.

Yeah, that might be recommended if your primary interest is minimizing resources but you'd want much higher if going more for quality. Same with H.265 vs H.264.

 

[bp2008]

View attachment 136850
The recomended bit rate is from an Amcrest IP Camera setup article. The frame rate for each 8Mp cam is 15-FPS with a CBR of 2048.

Those are very conservative bit rate figures. I would multiply those bit rate recommendations by 4 honestly. It is a tradeoff of course, higher bit rate means you need more storage capacity to have the same video retention period, but that video will have more detail if it is encoded at higher bit rate.

If you record continuously and you don't use Blue Iris at all, then enabling Smart Codec should also help to improve image quality when you have a low bit rate selected.

 

[observant1]

Are you above the 320Mbps incoming bitrate capacity?

No.

 

[observant1]

It was recomended by the tech support that my boss uses. It's the company that supplies all his camera equipment. It's all OEM Dahua stuff. I'm sure he gets a good deal because he buys cameras 100 at a time. The screen saver on all his xvr/nvr's are his company logo. I'm just a sole proprietor/contractor but he pays me well.
He's been doing cameras for close to 30 years. A very good salesman but limited with his technical ability. (that's being nice)

He does more security systems than camera systems. I was supprised when he told me tech support recomended that bit rate. Then I ran accross the article on the Amcrest camera set up.

Almost all our camera work is where there's plenty of ambient light. Most are inside. I think I made a recent post on setting up one of out LPR cameras, where he let tech support dial into his laptop to do all the changes. I left before it was complete. It shouldn't have taken 2 hrs to set it up. (all during the day,so we'll see how well it does at night.
It's at a perfect angle, where customers must stop before turning onto the road... They are working to get us power to 3 other LPR's mounted on light poles that we will need to configure. I do all his ubiquiti radio links......
......anyway the PTZ that caught a kid cutting thru a fence in broad daylight really impressed the local police dept. They knew exactly who it was when they saw a snapshot. -
It was another car dealership we did about 1yr ago.

He got several jobs on that 1 instance alone.

The customers seem to love the megapixels. And they do look great....with plenty of light.

 

[observant1]

that might be recommended if your primary interest is minimizing resources.

The more jobs I help on the more I realize it's more about ROI than what most of us want to identify a culprit at night, trying to elude any video survailence. It's also why a quality security system is usually the 1st thing.

Many of the systems we install is more about "shrinkage" or keeping the employees honest, as much as it is about identifing and deterring the random crack head.

We're about to start a job where only a few new cable runs will be installed, but all their cameras and NVR's will get a nice upgrade. For the average manager, it's gonna look 10 times better, and have more functionality.

I've done/helped redo a few grocery stores that paid a previous company 50 to 60 thousand dollars to install about 30-40 avigilon cameras. Good at the time but not any more.

 

[observant1]

I can't seem to get this speed of video accross a transpot medium out of my head. I'm no IT specialist. Lower than rookie actually. I can absolutely say the 2048 bit rate on 4k 15 fps does work, but also seems to introduce more lag time when watching live movement.

So if I just want to review some already recorded video, will the video file look any different if it was recorded at 2048 15fps vs 8192 15fps?

I go back to the days when I downloaded movie files and how much storage and time it took Divx xvid AVI and later on Motraska to get a 2hr movie. Then having to convert the movie to MP4, AVC i think to burn the dvd.

So, with the advances in video codecs and containers it may be quite possible to record a 4K 15fps at a much lower bit rate with the main disadvantage of a little more lag time when watching in real time vs watching aa already recorded clip?

The LPR camers we install -
ITC237-PW6M-IRLZF1050-B are 2 Mp with 1/1.8 sensors and must be set at 30fps. Beautiful picture quality.

Edited to add h265.

I'm from a backhaul background (installer level) that has changed greatly and just do whatevre to make a buck now days.

 

[observant1]

From IPVM article .....key marketing claims for HEVC/H.265 is reducing bit rate requirements in half to deliver the same quality. For instance, if a 1080p / 30fps H.264 camera required 4Mb/s, the equivalent H.265 camera would be expected to require only 2Mb/s. But that is now, clearly not enough....

I had a paid subscription to IPVM for 1 yr but just couldn't justify the cost. I'm too old, to busy, to tired.

I was just going over some of the forums I've joined over the years for information. The www is a great thing when used right.

 

[tech_junkie]

NSW2010-16T2GC-POE-IN-BA is Gigabit uplink Unmanaged Switch -

Very large building. 1 NVR with 2 nic's. 1 nic to the wan. 1 nic for the cameras. 5 total switches. two switches 300 ft in different locations, feeding two other switches 300 ft further in different locations. 1 Switch at the same location as the NVR. So I'd go from the NVR to an uplink port on the 1st switch - to feed cameras and the 4 other switches, or Should I add a gigbit switch from the 1st switch's uplink port (because the other uplink port goes to the NVR) in order to have two gigabit links to the 4 switches in the field - (so to speak) in order to avoid using a regular 100mbt port to feed another two switches?

The switches have two, gigabit uplink ports and 16 poe @ 100mbt ports.

This will work 4 you.
BTW,
On the 100 mb POE ports, you are limited to the switch count of 2, and the NVR cam ports count as the first switch. I use a switch like this in from of the cam ports in certain places where if lightning hit, it blows out the switch and not use but that one connection on the cam ports.

The NVR's WAN connection is programmed to dhcp. I recommend reserving the cam addresses when setting up the network if you don't assign them a static address which in this case, would be the range 10.10.44.129-253 I also recommend adding a public DNS servers 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4 (googleDNS) so that your remote routing is arbitrated outside the isp in both NVR and NVR router

excuse the crude drawing

 

[Thirdson]

I can't seem to get this speed of video accross a transpot medium out of my head. I'm no IT specialist. Lower than rookie actually.

Speaking as an actual rookie, who's reading various threads relating to networking, trying to learn, constantly coming up against terms I don't understand, you are not a rookie, much less lower than.

 

[observant1]

Speaking as an actual rookie, who's reading various threads relating to networking, trying to learn, constantly coming up against terms I don't understand, you are not a rookie, much less lower than.

It's sometimes better to be a paid grunt/helper than an unpaid expert.

 

[observant1]

We ave setteled on nothing less than gig poe switches. We will dasychain up to 3 using the uplink ports. If disynce is an issue we use fiber to the sfp ports or sometimes a media converter. It's not my company so all i can do is recomend. I did convience the owner to go with better switches and it's helped a great great deal.
Most of our nvrs don't have built in switches.

 

[observant1]

Bumping this thread to say using the proper switches, GIG ports with higher throuput eliminates lag and lets you run the cameras at 8192 or higher bit rate. We have played around with h264 vs h265.

We are using cheap chineese switches with 2 uplink ports to overcome distance in large area buildings.
YuanLey is a brand we have used. They and Mokerlink are cheap but have the specs we need. I know they are considered low end, but they "so far" are doing well. We back them for 3yr.

We are trying out one of their industrial grade - 48V 4-port with uplink 16Gbit throuput - for our entrance and exit locations to connect an LNPR and up to 2 other camers.

We no longer use switches that are limited to 100mbt or less per port. The additional throuput makes all the difference. (we also run h264 and it seems to have better picture quality, but it may just be my old eyes)

---------------------------------------------------------------
We also have used on-site switches that are already managed and in place. Nice high-end switches that use 10gig fiber to link them. Their IT guy gives us the ip addresses and sets up the subnet/VPN/mask. We follow his recomended addresses on our NVRs and pre initialize each camera within the given ip range.

 

[fenderman]

Bumping this thread to say using the proper switches, GIG ports with higher throuput eliminates lag and lets you run the cameras at 8192 or higher bit rate. We have played around with h264 vs h265.

We are using cheap chineese switches with 2 uplink ports to overcome distance in large area buildings.
YuanLey is a brand we have used. They and Mokerlink are cheap but have the specs we need. I know they are considered low end, but they "so far" are doing well. We back them for 3yr.

We are trying out one of their industrial grade - 48V 4-port with uplink 16Gbit throuput - for our entrance and exit locations to connect an LNPR and up to 2 other camers.

We no longer use switches that are limited to 100mbt or less per port. The additional throuput makes all the difference. (we also run h264 and it seems to have better picture quality, but it may just be my old eyes)

---------------------------------------------------------------
We also have used on-site switches that are already managed and in place. Nice high-end switches that use 10gig fiber to link them. Their IT guy gives us the ip addresses and sets up the subnet/VPN/mask. We follow his recomended addresses on our NVRs and pre initialize each camera within the given ip range.

Beware of these cheap switches.... Aside from the fact that I wouldn't trust network gear from some random Chinese company unless it's VLAND off, they have been known to cause streaming issues from cameras. Spend a few extra dollars and get something from a reliable company.

 

[CCTVCam]

Technically, I can't see you saturating even 100mbs. I would expect the bottleneck to maybe the pass through port on the switch.

As I worked out elsewhere using a bandwidth calculator, 100mbits = 100,000,000kbs. That's a lot of camera streams albeit you probably wouldn't want to saturate the network by using the full amount.

Also note the bit rate the camera is recording at is often before the stream is compressed. eg on my 4kt camera, the camera is recording at @16800 kbs but the actual streamed bit rate is reported by BI as being @ 2,000kbs, so it appears it's being further compressed for transmission further reducing any bandwidth requirement.

 

[Flintstone61]

100 Mbps sucks ass in my 4 switches of practicial user experience. had to bag the 100M bit ones

 

[observant1]

Beware of these cheap switches....

I'm not especially knowledgeable on switches. Netgear & Uniview is a comon switch but I'm not sure they are top end. (Uless you bue their top end switches? Layer 3 or managed switches are more than we need. Most companies have their own IT guy or group of guys either on site or more often off site that handels their firewall switches and vlans.
I'm not pushing these low end switches, just giving my opinion on some we have used in place of even lower end switchs like the ones with 100mbt up-link ports. Cameras do not use much bandwidth but in large buildings we may use several switches "daisy Chained" using the 2 uplink ports kinda like switch stacking but with longer cat6 runs between the switches. If you are limited to 100 mbt uplink ports there's a chance you get bottlenecks.

I basically started the thred because I helped a local camera company that has been is business 30yr do a job that the tech support guys told them to run the cameras at 2048. I was bewildered but their tech support was suposed to be the smart guys. They obviously were trying to overcome bandwith limitations of the switches they sent to be used with their cameras. (8mp dahua oem) with a few PTZ and a couple of LNPR.

I could not find a brand name on the switches they sent. (they were worse than the uniview) We also had occasional dropouts on the PTZ's and even the LNPR until we powerd them seperatly with ++ injectors.

Most may already know this, but I'm just trying to help any rookies from making simple mistakes.

 

[observant1]

Those are very conservative bit rate figures. I would multiply those bit rate recommendations by 4 honestly. It is a tradeoff of course, higher bit rate means you need more storage capacity to have the same video retention period, but that video will have more detail if it is encoded at higher bit rate.

If you record continuously and you don't use Blue Iris at all, then enabling Smart Codec should also help to improve image quality when you have a low bit rate selected.

The tech support recomended not to turn on (Smart Codec) i don't know what it's main function or how it works. All the equipment is OEM Dahua. (and video storage is not a concern as we always max out the HDD bays with the largest drives available and dont use RAID. (customes know in advance) Raid or a NAS is usually outside our basic installs, although I have helped with other companies the place a NAS in a remote location inside the building.

 

[fenderman]

I'm not especially knowledgeable on switches. Netgear & Uniview is a comon switch but I'm not sure they are top end. (Uless you bue their top end switches? Layer 3 or managed switches are more than we need. Most companies have their own IT guy or group of guys either on site or more often off site that handels their firewall switches and vlans.
I'm not pushing these low end switches, just giving my opinion on some we have used in place of even lower end switchs like the ones with 100mbt up-link ports. Cameras do not use much bandwidth but in large buildings we may use several switches "daisy Chained" using the 2 uplink ports kinda like switch stacking but with longer cat6 runs between the switches. If you are limited to 100 mbt uplink ports there's a chance you get bottlenecks.

I basically started the thred because I helped a local camera company that has been is business 30yr do a job that the tech support guys told them to run the cameras at 2048. I was bewildered but their tech support was suposed to be the smart guys. They obviously were trying to overcome bandwith limitations of the switches they sent to be used with their cameras. (8mp dahua oem) with a few PTZ and a couple of LNPR.

I could not find a brand name on the switches they sent. (they were worse than the uniview) We also had occasional dropouts on the PTZ's and even the LNPR until we powerd them seperatly with ++ injectors.

Most may already know this, but I'm just trying to help any rookies from making simple mistakes.

You dont need expensive switches. Something from netgear, tp-link, trendnet etc will be miles ahead of this no name junk. The switches are an integral part of your setup, using bottom barrel stuff is just not the way to go. There have been a number of issues on the forum relating directly to those off brand switches.