[Discussion] Looking for better camera at night, livingroom

O

Operations

Young grasshopper
Dec 26, 2019
61
18
The Netherlands
I am running an IPC-HDW2431R-ZS in my living room. The angle is good, during the day the image is good, size of camera is good... but at night i would like color image and not so grainny / pixelly.

Since i have had this camera for many years now there must be a better solution. I know about the 5442 serie but that is EOL for a while now right? Or still a good option?

my mistake 5442 apparently still very recent

Budget is 300 to 400/ 500 euro. Closer to 300 would be nice.

I also need a microphone, without having to connect anything extra other than ethernet. I also need PoE.

Recording is done by synology surveillance station.

So far i am thinking about:

Dahua IPC-HDW3449H-ZAS-PV
Dahua IPC-HDW5449H-ASE-D2
Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE

I know about the dont chase MP story, and 4MP nothing smaller than 1/1,8. So that would rule the 3449 out right?

Any ideas?
 
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The 5442 series is far from EOL and in fact recently added a new chipset to it that is phenomenal.

The 5442 is still the go to camera here and even more so with the new version of it.

But the cameras aren't magic and can't defy physics and some light is needed.
 
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wittaj said:
The 5442 series is far from EOL and in fact recently added a new chipset to it that is phenomenal.

The 5442 is still the go to camera here and even more so with the new version of it.

But the cameras aren't magic and can't defy physics and some light is needed.
Click to expand...
Sorry forgot the means i leave a hue light on at 15% all night.

I forgot something else, the camera i mentioned when i look at the recording i am seeing some slacking behind moving people . I think it is called ghosting. But it is during the day in full light. Is it the old camera or settings?

CBR 8192
FPS 20
I frame 20
2688x1520
No smart codec
H264
 
Operations said:
Sorry forgot the means i leave a hue light on at 15% all night.

I forgot something else, the camera i mentioned when i look at the recording i am seeing some slacking behind moving people . I think it is called ghosting. But it is during the day in full light. Is it the old camera or settings?

CBR 8192
FPS 20
I frame 20
2688x1520
No smart codec
H264
Click to expand...
Wittaj Camera tuning Tips.

Best Varifocal: EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight Vari-focal Tur

Best fixed lens: IPC-T54IR-AS-S3
 
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Operations said:
Sorry forgot the means i leave a hue light on at 15% all night.

I forgot something else, the camera i mentioned when i look at the recording i am seeing some slacking behind moving people . I think it is called ghosting. But it is during the day in full light. Is it the old camera or settings?

CBR 8192
FPS 20
I frame 20
2688x1520
No smart codec
H264
Click to expand...


Its likely lack of light coupled with a small sensor.

Inside can be more difficult than most think. Not NEAR as much light as outside in your yard.

The 5442 would be the go-to. And to get the max benefit of that sensor, get a fixed lens 2.8 or 3.6 model. Fixed lens cameras of the same series ALWAYS outperform variable focus lens as far as image quality and low light performance. Your living room cant be THAT big?
www.dahuasecurity.com

IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE - Dahua International

IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE
www.dahuasecurity.com www.dahuasecurity.com
 
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bigredfish said:
Its likely lack of light coupled with a small sensor.

Inside can be more difficult than most think. Not NEAR as much light as outside in your yard.

The 5442 would be the go-to. And to get the max benefit of that sensor, get a fixed lens 2.8 or 3.6 model. Fixed lens cameras of the same series ALWAYS outperform variable focus lens as far as image quality and low light performance. Your living room cant be THAT big?
www.dahuasecurity.com

IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE - Dahua International

IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE
www.dahuasecurity.com www.dahuasecurity.com
Click to expand...
No castle size room :)

So you think it is the camera and not the shutter etc. Tuning? Why is fixed lens so much better? I kinda always assumed fixed or vari would be the same camera except for the motor etc. part.
 
Operations said:
Why is fixed lens so much better?
Click to expand...

In general terms, there are more elements required for a zoom lens than for a fixed focus lens. Thus with more elements the lens attenuates the light which results in less light reaching the sensor. Thus the zoom lens is 'slower' than a fixed focus lens. i.e. a higher f-stop which lets light through the lens.

To compensate, one must then either use a slower shutter speed or increase the iris opening or a combination of the two to achieve the correct exposure. A slow shutter blurs motion and a large iris opening decrease depth of field. If using one of the standard Dahua camera gain can also be increased to make up for some light loss. The negative part is that with more gain (amplification) come more noise in a digital camera.
 
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^^^^^
What he said :cool:

Certainly I'm assuming you've played with the exposure (shutter), gain, DNR etc, which yes will affect blur/ghosting. But generally with the darker image, there comes a point where you just dont have enough senor.

I'll have to look for it but I posted samples back when the 5542 series was still quite new of the VF and fixed 3.6 6" apart and its quite obvious

Can you post an image with the camera at say manual 1/60 shutter and all other controls more or less 50?
 
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bigredfish said:
^^^^^
What he said :cool:

Certainly I'm assuming you've played with the exposure (shutter), gain, DNR etc, which yes will affect blur/ghosting. But generally with the darker image, there comes a point where you just dont have enough senor.

I'll have to look for it but I posted samples back when the 5542 series was still quite new of the VF and fixed 3.6 6" apart and its quite obvious

Can you post an image with the camera at say manual 1/60 shutter and all other controls more or less 50?
Click to expand...
I have not set things like shutter. Since my problem is during the day i will take a picture during the day. But my problem is more with moving people/dog. So probably video is a better idea.

Shutter 1/60, which all others on 50? Just to make sure i don't miss one or that we are not on the same page for a 100%
 
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So default, if so it’s probably 1/30 exposure (shutter) and will just get worse/ darker at 1/60 or faster.

You need more light and a bigger sensor to do color, the 5442 will help but you’ll also need 1/60 to reduce blur/ghosting. And DNR below 50

I think you’ll be surprised how much light you need to do color indoors
 
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bigredfish said:
So default, if so it’s probably 1/30 exposure (shutter) and will just get worse/ darker at 1/60 or faster.

You need more light and a bigger sensor to do color, the 5442 will help but you’ll also need 1/60 to reduce blur/ghosting. And DNR below 50

I think you’ll be surprised how much light you need to do color indoors
Click to expand...
I will set this up.
Do you know why my I frame keeps jumping back to 40 (fps is at 20). Synology is every video related set to "by camera".

I read on here that i frame is best set equal to FPS right? And Stream smooth? What should that be?

Ok shutter at 1/50 (cannot do 1/60), Gain 0 - 50, 3d NR ON and Grade 50.. it is so dark i cannot see anything.

I tried BLC/HLC made no difference.

Shouldnt i get a new camera with a white LED then?
 
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Iframe = FPS. Is always best yes. Many systems default to 2x FPS, which frankly isn’t horrible. Not your biggest problem right niw

If you must run color you’re gonna have to add light one way or the other.

The 5442 will make a noticeable improvement but you’ll still likely need more light.

Sooo if color is a must, yeah getting a 4MP or 8MP camera with white LEDs and at least a 1/1.8” sensor.
 
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bigredfish said:
Iframe = FPS. Is always best yes. Many systems default to 2x FPS, which frankly isn’t horrible. Not your biggest problem right niw

If you must run color you’re gonna have to add light one way or the other.

The 5442 will make a noticeable improvement but you’ll still likely need more light.

Sooo if color is a must, yeah getting a 4MP or 8MP camera with white LEDs and at least a 1/1.8” sensor.
Click to expand...
I mentioned 2 cameras with white LED in my startpost. But I think you will not pick them because of too small lens.

Which one would you pick with white LED? Adding more light is not preferred. I can turn the one HUE light up a bit. What is more better light closest to camera or further away?

If we come to the conclusies that what i want is not possible, well that is also an answer :)
 
  • NOT the 3449- too small of a sensor
  • The 5449 D2 has the right combination sensor to MP However, the close focus distance is too far - 13-16ft. Meaning anything closer may not be in good focus.

That brings us back to the 5442 fixed lens but you will still have to add more light.
www.dahuasecurity.com

IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE - Dahua International

IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE
www.dahuasecurity.com www.dahuasecurity.com


BUT If having the white LEDs on inside doesnt bother you then I think I would go with one of these two.
Same camera but one is variable focus and one is fixed lens

Both of those should give you good light inside. The variable focus does have 4 LEDs vs 2 so it will be brighter in a small indoor scene

I dont own either of these, they appear to be very similar to the 5442 except with white LEDs. I would think they'd perform well. The only thinking I'm not sure of is if you can adjust the intensity of the LEDs. I assume you can.
 
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bigredfish said:
  • NOT the 3449- too small of a sensor
  • The 5449 D2 has the right combination sensor to MP However, the close focus distance is too far - 13-16ft. Meaning anything closer may not be in good focus.

That brings us back to the 5442 fixed lens but you will still have to add more light.
www.dahuasecurity.com

IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE - Dahua International

IPC-HDW5442TM-ASE
www.dahuasecurity.com www.dahuasecurity.com


BUT If having the white LEDs on inside doesnt bother you then I think I would go with one of these two.
Same camera but one is variable focus and one is fixed lens

Both of those should give you good light inside. The variable focus does have 4 LEDs vs 2 so it will be brighter in a small indoor scene

I dont own either of these, they appear to be very similar to the 5442 except with white LEDs. I would think they'd perform well. The only thinking I'm not sure of is if you can adjust the intensity of the LEDs. I assume you can.
Click to expand...
Why would the white LED bother me? I assume i can set up the time when they have to switch on?
 
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Operations said:
Why would the white LED bother me? I assume i can set up the time when they have to switch on?
Click to expand...
You said before fixed is better than vari in the dark. But in this case will de 4 vs 2 LEDs make up for that? I was going for a fixed lens because of what you said before.. but now not so sure
 
Hard to say. Generally yes. Fixed will be a better image a pick up more light.

But with almost double the light rating, the varifocal should do well in your case.
With not having tested these I can’t be sure which is best for your scene.

So without actually being there to see, and knowing you want color, in this case I’d go with the varifocal with the added LEDs
 
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bigredfish said:
Hard to say. Generally yes. Fixed will be a better image a pick up more light.

But with almost double the light rating, the varifocal should do well in your case.
With not having tested these I can’t be sure which is best for your scene.

So without actually being there to see, and knowing you want color, in this case I’d go with the varifocal with the added LEDs
Click to expand...
I would so you are welcome to come and see, but something tells me you would have to cross an ocean to do so ;)
 
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