Which UPS for 24 hr CCTV backup?

[gregip]

Having trouble locating a <AU$1,000 UPS in Australia that can act as a 24hr backup for my Dahua NVR and cameras. I figure 24 hrs maintaining about 100W would address our infrequent but lengthy power outages.
It seems UPSs are only designed to maintain power for a few minutes to allow controlled shutdown of equipment but I want a backup system. Adding batteries to an existing UPS won't work because the UPS battery charging system is far too slow for a battery pack of say 3000 kWh, assuming a 80% discharge.
Seems I have three choices:

• design and build my own (any web links to someone who has already done this would be welcomed)
• track down a UPS which does it. Maybe my internet searching was inadequate so any links to a suitable UPS would be welcomed.
• supplement or replace the UPS charger with a separate battery charger that is suitable for a larger battery pack. Has anyone done this successfully?

 

[fenderman]

Having trouble locating a <AU$1,000 UPS in Australia that can act as a 24hr backup for my Dahua NVR and cameras. I figure 24 hrs maintaining about 100W would address our infrequent but lengthy power outages.
It seems UPSs are only designed to maintain power for a few minutes to allow controlled shutdown of equipment but I want a backup system. Adding batteries to an existing UPS won't work because the UPS battery charging system is far too slow for a battery pack of say 3000 kWh, assuming a 80% discharge.
Seems I have three choices:

• design and build my own (any web links to someone who has already done this would be welcomed)
• track down a UPS which does it. Maybe my internet searching was inadequate so any links to a suitable UPS would be welcomed.
• supplement or replace the UPS charger with a separate battery charger that is suitable for a larger battery pack. Has anyone done this successfully?

Something like this would cost a fortune if purchased from a manufacture and you would have to replace batteries every few years. You are better off looking into a generator that will automatically kick on when the power goes out.
As an alternative you can select the cameras that are essential and place them on their own poe switch with a backup batter and SD card. This way, even if the NVR is powered down they will keep operating and recording while using very little power that can be handled by a much cheaper UPS.

 

[TonyR]

+1^^^.
A generator (I prefer LPG/ propane) with auto-start and auto-transfer and a 500VA UPS ( I prefer APC) to take care of the load for 5 minutes until the generator starts and transfers.

 

[Mark_M]

Having trouble locating a <AU$1,000 UPS in Australia that can act as a 24hr backup for my Dahua NVR and cameras. I figure 24 hrs maintaining about 100W would address our infrequent but lengthy power outages.
It seems UPSs are only designed to maintain power for a few minutes to allow controlled shutdown of equipment but I want a backup system. Adding batteries to an existing UPS won't work because the UPS battery charging system is far too slow for a battery pack of say 3000 kWh, assuming a 80% discharge.

Might be just as worthy to install solar at your house.
That acts as a whole house UPS.

Other idea is one of those 'eco flow' battery bank systems that have solar panel input option (as well as mains charging).

 

[JNDATHP]

Solar is a great option, but you need to “island” the energy with batteries, otherwise when the grid goes down, your inverter will prevent energy from entering the grid, which is a safety problem.

 

[bp2008]

You'd be very lucky to find just 2400 watt hours of battery capacity within your budget, and I'm talking about just the batteries, not the cables, inverter, charger, or anything else you need to create a functioning UPS system.

The only way you're going to get that much power capacity for < $1000 AU ($692 USD) is a generator like fenderman said. You should be able to find an inverter generator capable of producing up to about 2000 watts within your budget. It will probably run on gasoline. These are relatively quiet and efficient. Hopefully you would have money left over for a good high gauge extension cord and maybe a standard computer UPS to keep things online while you get the generator going.

Remember that gasoline degrades over time, so you should either add fuel stabilizer or cycle the fuel every year or so if you find you aren't using it fast enough. Update: Actually everything I can find online suggests cycling the gas more frequently than that. Every 3-6 months even.

 

[Jolyon39]

A telecoms friend has removed, for upgrades, such UPS from large commercial buildings, they dump them.

I suggest that the second hand route would be advisable. They use them for phone systems and PC networks

Chase down phone installers and Large commercial network maintenance teams.

 

[TonyR]

Remember that gasoline degrades over time, so you should either add fuel stabilizer or cycle the fuel every year or so if you find you aren't using it fast enough. Update: Actually everything I can find online suggests cycling the gas more frequently than that. Every 3-6 months even.

FWIW, my propane 3500 watt generator ($400 USD) is 12 years old, sits for 6 months, starts on the second pull. No fuel stabilzers, no extra gas cans sitting around (which would also need stabilizing or using up in a car, etc.). Just a couple of 5 gal / 20 lb. propane bottles that I can also use with my BBQ grill. The generator runs about 7 hours on a bottle.

I changed the oil 5 years ago, then and now you can still see through the oil like it was cooking oil to read the dipstick....stays super-clean, no cylinder wall washdown like a gas engine...plus the quick start.

I have a manual transfer panel ($120 USD) that I wired in, takes about 5 minutes to hook up and start the generator and do the transfer. I use a 25 foot cable ($50 USD) so the generator can be wheeled outside the garage door to run and exhaut outside. It powers the garage door opener, garage 'fridge, 2 kitchen receptacles and ceiling light, kitchen 'fridge, master bathroom lights and exhaust fans, master bedroom ceiling light/fan and living room ceiling light/fan and 2 wall receptacles; 1 for fan on 22K BTU ventfree propane heater, 1 for an APC 1,000VA UPS that feeds 65" Sony TV, satellite receiver/DVR and Sony Blueray DVD player. This UPS has no issues at all with the power coming from the inexpensive Chinese generator.

 

[Jim I.]

I bought a portable Duromax 13500 watt generator to serve as basically a whole house generator. I converted it to run on natural gas, which runs clean, similar to propane. I read that the cylinder head valves may eventually need to be adjusted due to running these fuels, as they don't lubricate the valve train like gasoline does. Have you encountered that yet?

 

[TonyR]

I bought a portable Duromax 13500 watt generator to serve as basically a whole house generator. I converted it to run on natural gas, which runs clean, similar to propane. I read that the cylinder head valves may eventually need to be adjusted due to running these fuels, as they don't lubricate the valve train like gasoline does. Have you encountered that yet?

No, not yet. It's OHV and has about 100 hours on it.
I have a 15 year old Cub Cadet with a Kohler SV570 OHV engine with about 300 hours on it, runs like a top, nothing but oil and oil/air/fuel filters thus far. I've replaced the valve cover gasket and muffler/exhaust manifold.

I can't imagine having to run any generator so often that it would require more maintenance than periodic oil change and oil, air and fuel filters at specified intervals.

 

[gregip]

Thanks for the replies and good ideas.
I have a backup generator (petrol/gasoline) that I use for a manual changeover in my current house. It backs up selected parts of the house and sounds very similar to yours TonyR. It's great but there is no auto start nor auto changeover and I have to attach an extension cord, isolate my solar panels, flick some switches, etc. To automate what I have would probably cost much more than the $1000 I'd like to spend.
One of the main reasons for a power backup is when I'm away travelling for several weeks and the mains power goes down. I want the security systems to continue working even when I'm not there to manage it manually.
I'm leaning the third option in my initial post - a UPS but replace the tiny battery with a battery bank and charge it with a decent mains powered charger. I may have to revise downwards my 3000 kWh battery capacity because of the cost of batteries and just take my chances that the crims don't try to enter my property before the batteries stop.
So more planning required but still love to hear about alternatives.

 

[fenderman]

Thanks for the replies and good ideas.
I have a backup generator (petrol/gasoline) that I use for a manual changeover in my current house. It backs up selected parts of the house and sounds very similar to yours TonyR. It's great but there is no auto start nor auto changeover and I have to attach an extension cord, isolate my solar panels, flick some switches, etc. To automate what I have would probably cost much more than the $1000 I'd like to spend.
One of the main reasons for a power backup is when I'm away travelling for several weeks and the mains power goes down. I want the security systems to continue working even when I'm not there to manage it manually.
I'm leaning the third option in my initial post - a UPS but replace the tiny battery with a battery bank and charge it with a decent mains powered charger. I may have to revise downwards my 3000 kWh battery capacity because of the cost of batteries and just take my chances that the crims don't try to enter my property before the batteries stop.
So more planning required but still love to hear about alternatives.

Do you have an alarm system? That is the most important piece of equipment. If you are not around to respond the video will likely do you little good. That is why you only need a few cams a small switch and a router. This way you can verify and intrusion and get a faster response time from police.

 

[looney2ns]

Yeah, you need a whole house standby auto change over gen set to meet your goals.

 

[Jolyon39]

Do you have an alarm system? That is the most important piece of equipment. If you are not around to respond the video will likely do you little good. That is why you only need a few cams a small switch and a router. This way you can verify and intrusion and get a faster response time from police.

Ahhhh, My pet peeve LOL ….. Most alarm systems are specified by and or installed by amateurs so while they are the most important initial defence they are often easily thwarted, fortunately most burglars are equally amateur (eg. cut the Phone line, but most are not monitored, and fill the external siren with water). It also varies whether you live rural or in a city and whether the Police can be bothered attending alarms so it really has to make a huge racket both outside from multiple sirens and multiple sirens inside (Police never respond in New Zealand)

OP can be away for weeks at a time so this is unusual.

I really like OP’s intentions and intend to speak to my telecoms friend who is somewhat of a Guru. The $1,000 budget is the key, remember that virtually everything in the USA is dramatically cheaper than Aus or NZ (An NVR5216 -16P retails at about $800USD here). There must be a way to install an inverter to supply the alarm and NVR from a battery bank that is likewise charged by mains, yachties do it all the time from solar.

I agree with what you say about the cams saving to their SD card, powered by a POE switch I guess, because he is away for weeks he needs to have a fake NVR for them to steal so they think they got the camera footage. I would also add some pinhole cameras inside the house that load to a hidden NVR or NAS. Do the Dahua and Hik pinhole cameras have facility for an SD card in their supporting black box, that would save on the hidden NVR or NAS?

 

[Jolyon39]

Thanks for the replies and good ideas.
I have a backup generator (petrol/gasoline) that I use for a manual changeover in my current house. It backs up selected parts of the house and sounds very similar to yours TonyR. It's great but there is no auto start nor auto changeover and I have to attach an extension cord, isolate my solar panels, flick some switches, etc. To automate what I have would probably cost much more than the $1000 I'd like to spend.
One of the main reasons for a power backup is when I'm away travelling for several weeks and the mains power goes down. I want the security systems to continue working even when I'm not there to manage it manually.
I'm leaning the third option in my initial post - a UPS but replace the tiny battery with a battery bank and charge it with a decent mains powered charger. I may have to revise downwards my 3000 kWh battery capacity because of the cost of batteries and just take my chances that the crims don't try to enter my property before the batteries stop.
So more planning required but still love to hear about alternatives.

Hi,

Look into what Yachties use, they have an inverter off a battery bank, charged by solar, with backup charging off the alternator on their diesel. (More than 1K cost I guess)

You can investigate buying a wrecked yacht for less than $1000 and get all the gear you want.

Also, if you are away for several weeks at a time have a fake NVR visible for the thieves to steal because they will have time to be relaxed and thorough in your home.

 

[fenderman]

Ahhhh, My pet peeve LOL ….. Most alarm systems are specified by and or installed by amateurs so while they are the most important initial defence they are often easily thwarted, fortunately most burglars are equally amateur (eg. cut the Phone line, but most are not monitored, and fill the external siren with water). It also varies whether you live rural or in a city and whether the Police can be bothered attending alarms so it really has to make a huge racket both outside from multiple sirens and multiple sirens inside (Police never respond in New Zealand)

OP can be away for weeks at a time so this is unusual.

I really like OP’s intentions and intend to speak to my telecoms friend who is somewhat of a Guru. The $1,000 budget is the key, remember that virtually everything in the USA is dramatically cheaper than Aus or NZ (An NVR5216 -16P retails at about $800USD here). There must be a way to install an inverter to supply the alarm and NVR from a battery bank that is likewise charged by mains, yachties do it all the time from solar.

I agree with what you say about the cams saving to their SD card, powered by a POE switch I guess, because he is away for weeks he needs to have a fake NVR for them to steal so they think they got the camera footage. I would also add some pinhole cameras inside the house that load to a hidden NVR or NAS, Do the Dahua and Hik pinhole cameras have facility for an SD card in their supporting black box, that would save on the hidden NVR or NAS?

lol, this is not oceans 11. Any newer alarm system is dual path or has the option of being dual path. Police dont respond to alarms quickly because there is no verification. When there is video verification of alarms they respond crazy fast. This is where a camera system with AI and low false triggers comes in handy. You are alerted before the burglar enters the perimeter. You can call the police before they even get past the threshold. You can scare them away with an automated siren that makes them think they are actively being monitored. The point of an alarm system is to scare away intruders of at the very least make them leave quicker than they normally would. Pinhole cameras or even standard cams are useless after the fact. Most burglars are masked. Even if they were identified and caught you are not getting your stuff back.
Yes dahua and hik pinhole cameras do support SD cards. See specs.

 

[Jolyon39]

lol, this is not oceans 11. Any newer alarm system is dual path or has the option of being dual path. Police dont respond to alarms quickly because there is no verification. When there is video verification of alarms they respond crazy fast. This is where a camera system with AI and low false triggers comes in handy. You are alerted before the burglar enters the perimeter. You can call the police before they even get past the threshold. You can scare them away with an automated siren that makes them think they are actively being monitored. The point of an alarm system is to scare away intruders of at the very least make them leave quicker than they normally would. Pinhole cameras or even standard cams are useless after the fact. Most burglars are masked. Even if they were identified and caught you are not getting your stuff back.
Yes dahua and hik pinhole cameras do support SD cards. See specs.

I have quite a bit of experience with alarms, not so much at all with cameras let alone their AI. We are lucky that burglars are dumb but they have learnt to wear hoodies here in NZ so the need for pin holes mounted low down is real, these pin holes look up at or level with the face.
But yeah….. most alarms vary from limited to ineffective. I have seen installers/retailers install an external siren under an eve within reach of a standing person and directly above the garden hose ….

 

[fenderman]

I have quite a bit of experience with alarms, not so much at all with cameras let alone their AI. We are lucky that burglars are dumb but they have learnt to wear hoodies here in NZ so the need for pin holes mounted low down is real, these pin holes look up at or level with the face.
But yeah….. most alarms vary from limited to ineffective. I have seen installers/retailers install an external siren under an eve witching reach of a standing person and directly above the garden hose ….

Lol you are cute that you think this is oceans 11. No one is filling a siren with water. Please.

 

[Jolyon39]

Lol you are cute that you think this is oceans 11. No one is filling a siren with water. Please.

Ok, with 30+ years in alarms I have seen a lot. I have seen externals filled with expanding foam or water, PIR’s with plastic sheet inside them (more intelligent, inside job) and others with components ripped off the board, Dumb crim), roller doors lifted on the opposite side to the switch so they do not go off (well planned or accidental?), holes in walls instead of using a corridor and so on.

As I said, the average criminal is dumb but OP has said he is away for weeks, his house is empty for weeks so he has to step it up a bit (FIFO with expensive toys?). He has 24 hour power cuts so he must not be in a main center, therefore possibly isolated? ——- Its also a case where the local criminals probably notice this and they know they have time to work the place over instead of rush.. This is not your normal situation and therefore requires a more careful approach.

This requires a bit more thought versus the electrician, with no real security training (no tampers on components), installing an alarm for the equally uninformed home owner.

So yeah …. They do fill them with water and expanding foam.

Edit: Oh yeah, the police here in New Zealand’s biggest city dont even respond to home invasions in under an hour, I have had 3 so I know this, and if they cant respond to a home invasion they never ever respond to reports of alarms going off.

 

[Mark_M]

Police dont respond to alarms quickly because there is no verification.

With how bad NZ Police is that responding to ram raids and shootings, it will be over 24 hours before they respond to a home break-in.
NZ crime rates is an absolute joke.

Lol you are cute that you think this is oceans 11. No one is filling a siren with water. Please.

There is some absolute weird $h!t that goes on down down under.
It doesn't surprise me at all when you hear someone tried to defeat the system a day before they plan to break into the place.