Illegal log in attempt on NVR question

Vandoe

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Hey Guys!

so have new Hikvision NVR and cameras set up. I got a notification that an illegal log in attempt was made last night. Actually about 30 of them from the same IP address. When doing a google search, found several posts saying it’s probably bots. Also saw many posts talking about port forwarding. I’m new to all of this so my question is, do I need to be concerned or is this just a common thing? If there is something to stop this from happening, what would be the easiest way to fix this? I haven’t set up anything in the NVR that isn’t default. I did enable Hik-Connect so I can view cams on phone. And want to keep this option.
Is this just a common thing? Also, is there anyway to know if someone were to make a successful attempt to log in to my NVR?
 

Mark_M

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I’m new to all of this so my question is, do I need to be concerned or is this just a common thing?
What port forwarding has done is made the NVR exposed to anything on the internet.

Any bot or person now can access the NVR.
What is stopping them from viewing your footage is that they have not logged in to the NVR.

But there are always MANY backdoors in software they could exploit.
An NVR is a device many people do not update and they have limited update period before being too old. I don't update my NVR because the update might fail and then I have an expensive paper weight.

There are reports from IPVM and other sources of how to bypass the login on CCTV devices.


Your risk.
Not only could they gain control of your entire camera system, but they can use the NVR as a device to execute other things into your home network. Such as trying to connect to other devices.
One of the worst hijacks is using your internet connection for illegal activities.... then authorities track it back to you and you get blamed.


An easy table to work out if the risk is worth it:
Port forwarding your NVR
AdvantagesDisadvantages
  • Easy to setup remote access
  • Requires either static public IP or DDNS
  • You rely on a device running software from 5+ years ago to protect itself from attacks. Vulnerabilities are likely already known.
  • Thousands of connections will cause your NVR to crash and your camera system is not operational.
  • Could be used as a door into your home network, then try to login to computers, alarms, home automation, etc.
  • Could be used to perform crimes that seem to originate from your internet connection.

So if you do not want all this, I suggest either running a local VPN on your router or turning off remote access entirely.
A VPN on your router is similar to port forwarding in the likes that is makes your remote device appear to be on your home network/internet, but the connection key needs to be successful before any data is carried into the network.
This is done with a pre-shared 'key' and only your devices (phone/laptops) should know the key.


If your router does not support a private VPN, you may be able to run it on another device like a dedicated server (just a small mini PC left on).
 

Vandoe

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What port forwarding has done is made the NVR exposed to anything on the internet.

Any bot or person now can access the NVR.
What is stopping them from viewing your footage is that they have not logged in to the NVR.

But there are always MANY backdoors in software they could exploit.
An NVR is a device many people do not update and they have limited update period before being too old. I don't update my NVR because the update might fail and then I have an expensive paper weight.

There are reports from IPVM and other sources of how to bypass the login on CCTV devices.


Your risk.
Not only could they gain control of your entire camera system, but they can use the NVR as a device to execute other things into your home network. Such as trying to connect to other devices.
One of the worst hijacks is using your internet connection for illegal activities.... then authorities track it back to you and you get blamed.


An easy table to work out if the risk is worth it:
Port forwarding your NVR
AdvantagesDisadvantages
  • Easy to setup remote access
  • Requires either static public IP or DDNS
  • You rely on a device running software from 5+ years ago to protect itself from attacks. Vulnerabilities are likely already known.
  • Thousands of connections will cause your NVR to crash and your camera system is not operational.
  • Could be used as a door into your home network, then try to login to computers, alarms, home automation, etc.
  • Could be used to perform crimes that seem to originate from your internet connection.
So if you do not want all this, I suggest either running a local VPN on your router or turning off remote access entirely.

A VPN on your router is similar to port forwarding in the likes that is makes your remote device appear to be on your home network/internet, but the connection key needs to be successful before any data is carried into the network.
This is done with a pre-shared 'key' and only your devices (phone/laptops) should know the key.


If your router does not support a private VPN, you may be able to run it on another device like a dedicated server (just a small mini PC left on).
Not too sure my router does support it. It’s a Comcast so probably more limited.

so would I still be able to use the mobile app if I do a VPN?
 

wittaj

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You probably had to turn P2P on did a QR code and that is what opens it up.

You turn those off and then to test take your phone off of wifi and put on cellular and try the mobile app - it shouldn't let you in. If it does, then you have to look further as to why.

When it doesn't let you in, then you set up a VPN to allow you review it when not at home.

Now keep in mind this is a free VPN as in you are hosting it and not hiding your IP address. Paid VPN is to hide your IP address for illegal streaming and porno.
 

Mark_M

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so would I still be able to use the mobile app if I do a VPN?
Yes, a private VPN makes your phone appear like it's connected to your home network.
It basically routes all your phone's network traffic over the cellular/guest wifi to your home router.

Not to be confused with VPN services like Nord, they work differently in this situation of viewing your NVR.
 

wittaj

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I fail to see how enabling p2p on an NVR can open a port in a router.
Actually it can if you have UPnP on with certain devices, but I didn't say it opens a port on the router. I said that is what opens it up...meaning in general it opens up the NVR to vulnerabilities and hacking...that could either be because it opens ports on the router or thru the backdoor vulnerabilities with P2P....
 

wittaj

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Vandoe

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You probably had to turn P2P on did a QR code and that is what opens it up.

You turn those off and then to test take your phone off of wifi and put on cellular and try the mobile app - it shouldn't let you in. If it does, then you have to look further as to why.

When it doesn't let you in, then you set up a VPN to allow you review it when not at home.

Now keep in mind this is a free VPN as in you are hosting it and not hiding your IP address. Paid VPN is to hide your IP address for illegal streaming and porno.
Yes I did have to enable Hik-Connect app and then I had to upload my NVR via a QRcode on the app.
My router does not have port forwarding enabled.
 

wittaj

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The P2P is how they are gaining access. There are lots of examples where the security devices (ironic isn't it) are not very secure from the internet and pass information unencrypted before the P2P handshake begins...

Millions of people around the world want the simplicity of Internet of Things (IoTs) to be easy to connect to their system and work. They do not want to deal with security. They wrongfully assume that because they bought it and all they have to do is scan a QR code, that all is good. A manufacturer also doesn't want to deal with endless phone calls from consumers asking how to set something up, so they make it easy.

So these companies create these QR codes/P2P and magically the new device can be seen on the consumers app. Consumer is happy. But, this device has opened up the system to gain easy access to your entire network.

I have a friend that falls under this "I just want to plug it in and scan a code and it works" mindset. Many years ago she bought a Foscam wifi camera to monitor her front door. She plugged it in and pointed it out a 2nd story window and downloaded the Foscam app and scanned the QR code and magically she could see her camera through the magic of P2P.

A few years later she bought a wifi printer and again, simply downloaded the app from the manufacturer and scanned the QR code and she could start printing.

One time in the middle of the night, she hears her printer printing a page. She thinks maybe she is dreaming or hearing things, so she thinks nothing of it and goes back to sleep. Next morning she gets up and indeed her printer did print something in the middle of the night and the printed page says I SEE YOU and a picture of her from her Foscam camera was below the text.

She changes her wifi password in case it was the peeping perv next door that she has caught looking at her from through her window and he guessed her password, which was password because she liked things simple.:banghead:

Problem still persists. She goes into Foscam app and changes the password to the camera. Problem still persists. She gets a new router and sets up a stronger password for wifi and changed the passwords of all of her devices. Problem still persists. She gets rid of camera and printer.

At some point Foscam issues a security vulnerability and issued a firmware update. Based on chatter on forums, basically the vulnerability was something like when logging into the camera with a web browser over HTTPS, the initial login to the P2P site is done using SSL. But then it establishes a connection to the HTTPS port again (for the media service) and sends all of its commands unencrypted. This means the username and passwords are being sent unencrypted. While this was a security vulnerability found in Foscam, I suspect it is in others as well. I suspect this is how my friend was hacked and someone was sending pictures of her taken from her Foscam camera to her wifi printer that she set up using the QR code.

Many articles on this site and out on the internet show how vulnerable these devices can be. I remember seeing an article of a webpage showing like 75,000 video streams around the world that were hacked into because of these vulnerabilities. I know there is an article someone on this forum where someone posted that many of these cameras do send passwords totally unencrypted and wide open easy to see for anyone knowing what they are doing.

Do not assume that because it is a name brand that they actually have good security on these cameras or any device for that matter. Think about the typical end-user that just wants simplicity to connect. And then think how a company would go about that to provide that simplicity. End result is to provide that simplicity, it comes at a cost and that cost is security vulnerabilities, which is ironic for security cameras. But if it can happen to Amazon/Ring (which is a fairly large company), it can happen to anyone, especially all the no-name brands being sold on Amazon.

For that reason, most of us here prevent our systems from having access to the internet.
 

Vandoe

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The P2P is how they are gaining access. There are lots of examples where the security devices (ironic isn't it) are not very secure from the internet and pass information unencrypted before the P2P handshake begins...

Millions of people around the world want the simplicity of Internet of Things (IoTs) to be easy to connect to their system and work. They do not want to deal with security. They wrongfully assume that because they bought it and all they have to do is scan a QR code, that all is good. A manufacturer also doesn't want to deal with endless phone calls from consumers asking how to set something up, so they make it easy.

So these companies create these QR codes/P2P and magically the new device can be seen on the consumers app. Consumer is happy. But, this device has opened up the system to gain easy access to your entire network.

I have a friend that falls under this "I just want to plug it in and scan a code and it works" mindset. Many years ago she bought a Foscam wifi camera to monitor her front door. She plugged it in and pointed it out a 2nd story window and downloaded the Foscam app and scanned the QR code and magically she could see her camera through the magic of P2P.

A few years later she bought a wifi printer and again, simply downloaded the app from the manufacturer and scanned the QR code and she could start printing.

One time in the middle of the night, she hears her printer printing a page. She thinks maybe she is dreaming or hearing things, so she thinks nothing of it and goes back to sleep. Next morning she gets up and indeed her printer did print something in the middle of the night and the printed page says I SEE YOU and a picture of her from her Foscam camera was below the text.

She changes her wifi password in case it was the peeping perv next door that she has caught looking at her from through her window and he guessed her password, which was password because she liked things simple.:banghead:

Problem still persists. She goes into Foscam app and changes the password to the camera. Problem still persists. She gets a new router and sets up a stronger password for wifi and changed the passwords of all of her devices. Problem still persists. She gets rid of camera and printer.

At some point Foscam issues a security vulnerability and issued a firmware update. Based on chatter on forums, basically the vulnerability was something like when logging into the camera with a web browser over HTTPS, the initial login to the P2P site is done using SSL. But then it establishes a connection to the HTTPS port again (for the media service) and sends all of its commands unencrypted. This means the username and passwords are being sent unencrypted. While this was a security vulnerability found in Foscam, I suspect it is in others as well. I suspect this is how my friend was hacked and someone was sending pictures of her taken from her Foscam camera to her wifi printer that she set up using the QR code.

Many articles on this site and out on the internet show how vulnerable these devices can be. I remember seeing an article of a webpage showing like 75,000 video streams around the world that were hacked into because of these vulnerabilities. I know there is an article someone on this forum where someone posted that many of these cameras do send passwords totally unencrypted and wide open easy to see for anyone knowing what they are doing.

Do not assume that because it is a name brand that they actually have good security on these cameras or any device for that matter. Think about the typical end-user that just wants simplicity to connect. And then think how a company would go about that to provide that simplicity. End result is to provide that simplicity, it comes at a cost and that cost is security vulnerabilities, which is ironic for security cameras. But if it can happen to Amazon/Ring (which is a fairly large company), it can happen to anyone, especially all the no-name brands being sold on Amazon.

For that reason, most of us here prevent our systems from having access to the internet.
Wow. Yea I definitely don’t want that happening.
But if I do a VPN then I should be good?
And still use the app?
How do I find out if my router can use VPN? And which VPN should I use?
 

wittaj

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Yep if you VPN back into your system it is like you are at home and the app will still work.

Many routers have OpenVPN native to their firmware, so look around and see.

If you don't see it, then post your router make/model and see what others have done having that router. Some have ran OpenVPN or ZeroTier or something else on a computer. Some have done the Pi thing if you are familiar with those little devices.

Do keep in mind many still run P2P and have strong passwords and constantly watch the login attempts.
 

Vandoe

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Yep if you VPN back into your system it is like you are at home and the app will still work.

Many routers have OpenVPN native to their firmware, so look around and see.

If you don't see it, then post your router make/model and see what others have done having that router. Some have ran OpenVPN or ZeroTier or something else on a computer. Some have done the Pi thing if you are familiar with those little devices.

Do keep in mind many still run P2P and have strong passwords and constantly watch the login attempts.
thanks!

yes I have had the past 3 nights have illegal log in attempts. I feel I have a pretty strong password but may make it even stronger. Is there a way to know if an unknown IP address were to log in?
On the NVR there is an ip address filter list to forbid or allow. Should I add the IP addresses to that?

Probably pointless and would have to do that daily though lol

I will check out my router when I get home.
 

alastairstevenson

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My router does not have port forwarding enabled.
Port forwarding can be enabled without your knowledge with features such as UPnP if enabled on the router.

Suggestion :
Check for any inbound access with one of the various services that will do this for you.
For example try ShieldsUp! here : GRC | ShieldsUP! — Internet Vulnerability Profiling
First use the 'All Service Ports' selection.
Then use the 'User Specified Custom Port Probe' for port 8000 and 8080
 

Vandoe

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Disable UPnP both on your router and NVR.
Okay I do see this in the NVR for server port, http, rtsp and https as active. Will disabling this effect anything? As far as connected devices or the mobile app?
 

Umut

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Okay I do see this in the NVR for server port, http, rtsp and https as active. Will disabling this effect anything? As far as connected devices or the mobile app?
If you set up the mobile app using QR code on the NVR and viewing your cams using cloud connection (P2P), disabling UPnP won't effect anything.
 

Vandoe

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If you set up the mobile app using QR code on the NVR and viewing your cams using cloud connection (P2P), disabling UPnP won't effect anything.
Will disabling this solve the log in attempts or is it just a safety precaution?
 
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