IR Illuminators vs LED Dusk to Dawn Lights

erieadams

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Curious if anyone can direct me to any previous post. about this or direct me in the right direction. I have looked and searched but unable to find my answers. I live in the country and VERY little to no light other then moonlight and A street light half a block away. I have dahua 2mp 5231 starlight cameras and some non starlight cameras they do pretty decent in B&W night mode.
But I am looking to add a few of the new 8mp Hikvision Colorvu g2 cameras. I also plan to add some External lighting around the house and tool shed. my goal is to have very clear full night time color vision. I would really like to use IR illuminators and not light up the yard but can not find out if that is only for better b&w night vision or if it also helps with color night vision or if i am better off just getting dusk to dawn led white lights. also in the Wiki/Cliff notes most of the IR illuminators look to be a few years old and wasn't sure if most of them are still available or better models out. I will apologize ahead of time if there are other post similar to this that I was unable to find by searching. Also any recommendations on what model external lights are best would also be appreciated
 

sebastiantombs

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If you want color at night you'll need lots of white light, visible light. If you're happy with B&W then IR lights can help. Bear in mind that external IRs do not adjust as the target approaches like the IR in a camera does. That can result in washed out images at close ranges, I use CM Vision for external IRs and am pretty happy with them.

Blaster

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There are some others that are very good as well, especially for LPR use with long, narrow, patterns.
 
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erieadams

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If you want color at night you'll need lots of white light, visible light. If you're happy with B&W then IR lights can help. Bear in mind that external IRs do not adjust as the target approaches like the IR in a camera does. That can result in washed out images at close ranges, I use CM Vision for external IRs and am pretty happy with them.

Blaster
Smaller

There are some others that are very good as well, especially for LPR use with long, narrow, patterns.
thank you i am really wanting color night vision so i will look to add some dusk to dawn lights for the front of the house
 
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alastairstevenson

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But I am looking to add a few of the new 8mp Hikvision Colorvu g2 cameras.
I would really like to use IR illuminators and not light up the yard but can not find out if that is only for better b&w night vision or if it also helps with color night vision
The ColorVu cameras have a fixed IR cut so will not see IR at all.
For other, non-ColorVu cameras, in B&W mode IR will illuminate the scene. In Day mode, the IR will not be visible as the IR-cut that activates in Day mode will block (cut) the IR.
 

wittaj

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I have 4 house lights on the front, each putting out 5,400 lumen. I have a yard lamp putting out 5,400 lumen. I have a floodlight with two Night Chaser bulbs putting out 6,000 lumen.

So I have 33,000 lumen radiating off the front of my house. Most would think that is a lot.

It is not enough light for my 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor for an image at the end of my driveway 50 feet away. I have to run a way slower shutter (1/50) than I would like and a higher gain (70) to make it work if I want it in color. So I get some ghosting and blur.

Granted it is not this camera and I know many talk highly of it, but without enough light, it will struggle unless you can accept blurring and or ghosting.

I think you would be better off with the 5442 Dahua series that are 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor versus an 8MP on the same size sensor.

I'd suggest add your light first and see how the 2MP starlights perform - if not well, you will probably be disappointed with 8MP even with a better sensor. I was bummed that the 4MP on 1/1.8" sensor had to be forced into color. I feel in my situation that the 2MP performs as well or better than the 4MP with a bigger sensor.
 

erieadams

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I have 4 house lights on the front, each putting out 5,400 lumen. I have a yard lamp putting out 5,400 lumen. I have a floodlight with two Night Chaser bulbs putting out 6,000 lumen.

So I have 33,000 lumen radiating off the front of my house. Most would think that is a lot.

It is not enough light for my 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor for an image at the end of my driveway 50 feet away. I have to run a way slower shutter (1/50) than I would like and a higher gain (70) to make it work if I want it in color. So I get some ghosting and blur.

Granted it is not this camera and I know many talk highly of it, but without enough light, it will struggle unless you can accept blurring and or ghosting.

I think you would be better off with the 5442 Dahua series that are 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor versus an 8MP on the same size sensor.

I'd suggest add your light first and see how the 2MP starlights perform - if not well, you will probably be disappointed with 8MP even with a better sensor. I was bummed that the 4MP on 1/1.8" sensor had to be forced into color. I feel in my situation that the 2MP performs as well or better than the 4MP with a bigger sensor.

That is another thing i really need to figure out is different shutter speeds and gain and other settings I've played around with a lot of the settings but auto just seems better on every setting and backlighting off so that is next on my list to figure out. I have only had this system little under 2 weeks now so still testingout different settings. and i've read maybe 500 different forums here and reading more daily one day I will figure things out
 

wittaj

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Keep in mind that auto settings will give you a great still image. I can make my 2MP starlights look like daytime at night, but introduce any motion and it is a blur and/or ghosting effect.

Have someone run or walk fast past the camera at night and do you still get clarity and details. Night time is where it matters most.

An auto setting could take a shutter down to a very low number in order to capture an image that looks great with no motion. Some of these cameras may go to a shutter speed of 1/3 or 1/12 on auto and crank the gain up. Anything slower than 1/50 will have probably have blur. Most try to run at 1/120 and then slow it from there if needed.

But keep in mind that the faster the shutter speed, the darker the image gets and thus needs more light. So it is a balance between not having a dark image versus getting usable video.

For example, many of us here use the 2MP starlight Z12E camera for plate reading. At night, we have to run a 1/2000 shutter or else it will be a blur. Our image is completely black in this case except for the head/tail lights and the plate.
 

erieadams

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Well it is finally time to upgrade my lighting and a few of my cameras i have the Dahua 2mp sony cameras everyone raves about and yeah they are ok in bw at night I can not make out anyone in the records at night at 30+ feet away even with my VF zoomed out to the max to view my shed. So I am going to get 2 Area barn lights 100 watt 10000 lumens and for the front of the house i want either 2 wall pack lights 125 or 150 watt 15k lumens might even go with the street light 28k and mount them on my flag poles want my property to look like broad daylight at night and then buy some nice 8k cameras with VF so i can easily make out people better at 30 to 50 ft away. Any suggestions on lights that will last I would like Dusk to Dawn lights and not motion and prefer to stay under 350 for 4 lights. Another question I have is will too much light make my cameras look worse ? in full color at night or as long as cameras are not aimed towards the lights be ok
 

sebastiantombs

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What model 2MP? The "latest and greatest" is the 5442 series, 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor. To make it more confusing there's an 8MP on a 1/1.2 sensor coming out soon, too. Here's a screen cap of a fox and her kit visiting last night. The IR in the 5442, 6mm lens, is shut off but there is auxiliary IR light in use. The foxes are about 30 feet from the camera in this shot.

fox-kit.JPG

I'd look in to a camera like this and maybe some external IR illuminators. Adding that much light, besides the cost of the lights, will add to your electric bill as well even if they're LED lights.
 

wittaj

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Well it is finally time to upgrade my lighting and a few of my cameras i have the Dahua 2mp sony cameras everyone raves about and yeah they are ok in bw at night I can not make out anyone in the records at night at 30+ feet away even with my VF zoomed out to the max to view my shed. So I am going to get 2 Area barn lights 100 watt 10000 lumens and for the front of the house i want either 2 wall pack lights 125 or 150 watt 15k lumens might even go with the street light 28k and mount them on my flag poles want my property to look like broad daylight at night and then buy some nice 8k cameras with VF so i can easily make out people better at 30 to 50 ft away. Any suggestions on lights that will last I would like Dusk to Dawn lights and not motion and prefer to stay under 350 for 4 lights. Another question I have is will too much light make my cameras look worse ? in full color at night or as long as cameras are not aimed towards the lights be ok
I assume you are talking about the VF that is up to 12 or 13.5mm. 30+ feet will be tough with that focal length without a lot of light.

The only 8MP varifocals for the moment are a few high end PTZ cameras. 8k does not exist that we can afford yet LOL.

You can never have too much light, especially once you dial them in to eliminate motion blur. Once you dial in the shutter speed and other parameters, you will be surprised how much light is needed.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera (but don't expect to IDENTIFY a stranger 40 feet out)
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
 

erieadams

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I assume you are talking about the VF that is up to 12 or 13.5mm. 30+ feet will be tough with that focal length without a lot of light.

The only 8MP varifocals for the moment are a few high end PTZ cameras. 8k does not exist that we can afford yet LOL.

You can never have too much light, especially once you dial them in to eliminate motion blur. Once you dial in the shutter speed and other parameters, you will be surprised how much light is needed.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera (but don't expect to IDENTIFY a stranger 40 feet out)
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
yeah I noticed even in daylight my 2mp 5231 Dehua has hard time making out faces of anyone near my shed 50 ft away so I am moving one of the side porch cameras aimed at the shed and running A cat6 cable to the shed and mounting it on the front above the door but also installing 3 new 10k plus lights one on the shed door where my current solar light is also replacing both solar lights on the front porch and installing another barn light above the back door currently I have a flir 8k that looks better at night then my dahua 5231 facing the same spot also have the amcrest 8k witch is decent at night but great during the day so with the new lights hope to find better cameras
 

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Seeing details in faces at 50 ft isn’t just about how much light you throw at it or MP, if you don’t have enough zoom to get there.

As distance increases, you need more zoom to get facial detail than the average VF lens max zoom of 12mm or so.

Here’s an example of a 5231Z-12 2MP camera at 100ft. It’s under the worst conditions being at dusk, with overcast and a camera intended for capturing license plates at night in B&W, but you get the idea. This is at approx 50mm zoom or 4x the zoom capability of the average VF camera.
HOA Entr_EntrTag_main_20210626190540_@3.jpg

And here's one of a 4MP PTZ at 450 ft
vlcsnap-2021-06-27-08h54m24s023.jpg

4MP PTZ @60ft
HOA Entr_IP PTZ Camera_main_20210127215601_@3.jpg
HOA Entr_IP PTZ Camera_main_20210212192541_@3.jpg
vlcsnap-2021-06-27-09h30m24s406.jpg
 
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erieadams

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all of those looks great and that 5231 looks so much better then the 5231z vf i have mine is not that 12 lpr tho do you happen to know what light works best with cameras 4000 or 5000k light also what ptz is that you have i want to buy one
 

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Remember the 5231 shown has a 12x zoom of 64mm. The Regular VF 5231 is 4x or 12mm max zoom.

Recommend the more “white” the light the better. You don’t want “warm” or soft.

On the PTZ I recommend a 2 or 4MP with 1/1.8 sensor.
One of these


 

erieadams

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Remember the 5231 shown has a 12x zoom of 64mm. The Regular VF 5231 is 4x or 12mm max zoom.

Recommend the more “white” the light the better. You don’t want “warm” or soft.

On the PTZ I recommend a 2 or 4MP with 1/1.8 sensor.
One of these


yeah i knew the 5231 was the nicer better zoom version of mine but no clue on the others just picked up two wall pack lights to see witch i like better both are 5k daylight white instead of the yellowish 4k
 

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Honestly a PTZ (especially auto-tracking models) is a great supplemental camera,, but unless you have a real need to see detail out past say 60-80ft, recommend primary coverage of the choke points with fixed cameras. All depends on your specific needs.

Also remember that the bigger the zoom the smaller the overall FOV, so you will see detail further, but cover a smaller area.
 
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AveryFreeman

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What model 2MP? The "latest and greatest" is the 5442 series, 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor. To make it more confusing there's an 8MP on a 1/1.2 sensor coming out soon, too. Here's a screen cap of a fox and her kit visiting last night. The IR in the 5442, 6mm lens, is shut off but there is auxiliary IR light in use. The foxes are about 30 feet from the camera in this shot.

View attachment 93669

I'd look in to a camera like this and maybe some external IR illuminators. Adding that much light, besides the cost of the lights, will add to your electric bill as well even if they're LED lights.
What's that 8MP on a 1/1.2 that's coming out?
 

wittaj

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NightLife

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This bad boy:


Slight resurrection here, but since you mentioned the camera that I am currently trying to find flood lighting for and this is a lighting thread as well ..

It is mentioned that we want 'white' light, but do you have a temperature in mind that's optimal?

I'd like to find something like an LED flood on Amazon, and get this thing kicking butt at night. I have several outlets on my deck spaces, so I can just plug a flood in, and play with positioning as I go to find the best arrangement.

I'm staying with 'colour' day/night, and this is the 4K-X so I don't require IR. And I don't think I want to bath the yard in bright lights. Attracting attention is not any objective of mine. But I do need enough so the camera can operate optimally or close at night.


Thanks
 
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