Camera Recommendations?

[birdie]

I appear to have fell for the Reolink marketing thanks to The Hook Up I purchased 4x Reolink RLC-420-5MP via the Reolink Aliexpress store. Thankfully they were only $20AU each as they were factory refurbished. I only installed 2 so far on the front of the house and the other 2 were going to go on the back of the house. But now that I am realising the issues with the I Frame interval and also the poor ghosting performance I'm considering getting rid of them and replacing them with something better.

From my reading so far it seems like 4K is overkill and is also worse for night performance which makes sense due to the smaller pixels. I'm happy to go with the 4-5MP as I "only" have an Intel i5-3470 so the extra load of the 4K/8MP is probably not helpful.

I did wonder about the Annke C800 - A Hikvision rebrand? though not sure how good they are - and don't want to be caught out by another Hook Up recommendation...

What camera would you recommend? I'd prefer to keep my costs down to around $100AU max per camera if possible. I was looking at the IPCT store and saw the 4MP Starlight Turret IP Camera for $83.99US. Is that a reasonable camera or is there something better I should be looking at?

I am only looking at 4 cameras at this point, maybe might add a couple more to give a bit more coverage down the track but the 4 should cover the front and back nicely I think.

 

[oknoob]

Hi there i would recommend you that go into the vendor section here in this great forum. And go into the Andy section he got 1 of the best sales going on rigth now and take advantage of that sale. Is only like twice a year. I go for some of the ipc 5442 cameras,that is 1 of the most recommended here. I have like 5 in all differents combinations 3.mm,6.mm,2.8 vari and fix great cameras. Hold on until more experience people jump in here.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Sorry you got stuck with the Reolink scam artists like that. I you decide to go with Andy be sure to mention you're an IPCT member when contacting him. He can ship anywhere and usually very quickly, depending on customs of course. Incidentally, if you're using Blue Iris you can use sub streams and probably get some real use out of that i5. Sub streams greatly reduce the load on the CPU and combined with all the other optimizations can make an old machine a viable VMS.


Welcome to the enchanted land of video surveillance lunatics, good guys, nut jobs and miscreants (yes, I fit into at least three categories). There are a lot of knowledgeable people on here and knowledge and experience are shared constantly. That's how I got to be a lunatic (already a nut job and miscreant).

Start out by looking in the WiKi in the blue bar at the top of the page. There's a ton of very useful information in there and it needs to be viewed on a computer, not a phone or tablet. The Cliff Notes will be of particular interest although the camera models listed there are a generation old at this point. The best way to determine what kind of camera you need in each location and where each location should really be is to buy one varifocal camera first and set up a test stand for it that can be easily moved around. Test using that, viewing using the web interface of the camera, during the day and at night. Have someone walk around behaving like a miscreant and see if you can identify them. There is also information for choosing hardware and securing the system along with a whole bunch of other good stuff.

Don't chase megapixels unless you have a really BIG budget. Chase sensor size and bigger is better. To confuse you more sensor sizes are listed in fractions so do the basic math to be sure, 1/2.8 is bigger than 1/2.7 or 1/3. General rule of thumb is that a 4MP camera will easily outperform an 8MP camera when they both have the same sensor size. Reason being that there are twice as many pixels in the 8MP versus the 4MP. This results in only half the available light getting to each pixel in an 8MP that a pixel in the 4MP "sees".

A dedicated PC doesn't need to be either expensive to purchase or to run. A used business class machine can be had from eBay and various other sources. The advances made in Blue Iris make it easily possible to run a fairly large system on relatively inexpensive hardware which also makes power consumption low, as in under 50 watts in many cases. The biggest expenses turn out to be hard drives for storing video and a PoE switch to power the cameras and, of course, the cameras themselves.

The three basic rules of video surveillance cameras-

Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular.

Compiled by mat200 -

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

Avoid WiFi cameras, even doorbell cameras. WiFi is not designed for the constant, 24/7, load of video that a surveillance camera produces. At best, with two cameras on WiFi, they will still experience dropouts multiple times daily. Murphy's Law says that will happen at the worst possible moment.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Watch this video to learn how to analyze each location for appropriate lens size and keep in mind that it may take two cameras to provide the coverage you need or desire. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

5442 Reviews

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)

IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...

ipcamtalk.com

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new 4MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This camera is using the OEM model number of IPC-B5442-ZE which is the equivalent of the Dahua IPC-HFW5442-ZE for reference. The IPC-B...

ipcamtalk.com

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $160 Link to camera...

ipcamtalk.com

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Andy's Email: kingsecurity2014...

ipcamtalk.com

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera

Review: OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Pro AI Starlight Full-color Fixed Bullet

Many thanks once again to Andy @EMPIRETECANDY we have for testing the OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Starlight+ Full Color bullet. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This is a fixed 3.6mm bullet (Pro AI) series with the 1/1.8” sensor. It has no built in...

ipcamtalk.com

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera

Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal

Again courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY EmpireTech Andy we have a new cam to look over. Its a new model in Dahua's new Lite H265 Series of cam's. Available for purchase here: Aliexpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles and more Price is approx...

ipcamtalk.com

3241T-ZAS Review

Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal

IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...

ipcamtalk.com

Less expensive models -

Budget Dahua Cams or china alternatives under $100?

Well here we go. I dont see anywhere more approriate to discuss this. Ive been messing around with putting together a cctv system for close to 3 years now. Ive bought everything i needed and also bought 2 cheap cams from a third party seller on walmart. Those cams cost me a grand total of $50...

ipcamtalk.com

VPN Information Thread

VPN Primer for Noobs

The internet is a force of nature; no video surveillance system made was designed to be exposed to those forces.. NEVER FORWARD PORTS to your NVR or Cameras, doing such things not only exposes you to severe security problems, but everyone else on the internet too.. Hackers dont want your video...

ipcamtalk.com

Andy
IPCT Thread

EmpireTech Andy

Dahua products

ipcamtalk.com

Andy's Store

Amazon.com

King Security/EmpireTech Store

Amazon.com

Email
Andy Wang kingsecurity2014@163.com

 

[mat200]

FYI - for those following this thread...

Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[birdie]

I'm liking the look of the 5442 with its larger 1/1.8" sensor.

I'm thinking maybe getting the 3.6mm lens on it on a turret style camera.

It is about 9m from the house to edge of the road.

I currently have the two Reolink mounted on the left and right corners at front of the house and have them crossed over (on advice from a local installer), not sure if that's the best setup or if I'm better to point them straight forwards. The Reolink with their 4mm lens and 1/3" sensor have a 80deg horizontal FOV.

This is their view currently.


What you recommend for focal length/FOV for my setup at the front of my house? The 3.6mm appears it will give a 89deg Horizontal FOV and the 6mm 56deg H FOV which I think would be too narrow?

Not sure if I need 2 cameras at front or just a wider angle in the front left (looking from the house) which would cover the driveway, path and fence to fence (the block is 20.5m wide)

I've considered adding a 3rd camera at front door (door bell camera?) so that I can see who's at the door and also monitor any parcels left at the door.

I can get the following from Empire Tech's Aliexpress page: IPC-T5442TM-AS for $188.95AU, IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED for $177.70AU or IPC-T5442T-ZE for $231.71AU (all with free shipping). Not sure which one I should go with.

Is the Varifocal set and forget or can it auto zoom if it detects an person/vehicle in Blue Iris?

 

[wittaj]

Varifocal cameras are a set it and forget it camera. If you want one that zooms and follows, then you need a PTZ with auto tracking.

Try not to do too much with one camera. One camera cannot be the see all, do all.

You need to decide what you want coverage for and select the correct camera for the job.

Generally the smaller the focal length, the wider the image and the closer the subject needs to be to IDENTIFY.

Keep in mind the expected performance of the cameras. To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is popular in kit systems, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his 4 2.8mm fixed lens cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera (and same principal for the other fixed lens sizes - 3.6mm within 15 feet and within 20 feet for 6mm)
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

The best advice we give is purchase one varifocal camera and test it at each location you want to install a camera and confirm the lens you need and do not install higher than 7-8 feet unless it is for an overview camera - otherwise you get top of heads and hoodies.

 

[birdie]

Yeah my house is only single story so 2.2m (about 7 feet) is the height where my cameras are mounted.
So my driveway is 9m long (about 30 feet). I probably don't need to identify someone at the edge of the road, once they start to come up the driveway I will be able to identify them at the 15-20 feet mark with the 3.6mm and still have a fairly wide FOV so they can't try slip out of the FOV with a much narrower 6mm lens.

Since I have the Reolink's already should I change the angle so the left is pointing straight down the driveway and the right is catching the right fence as its limit and then see if I am happy with the FOV of those at 80 deg H FOV, which would be similar to the 3.6mm at 89deg? Would it be better to face the cameras straight forward so the people/objects are closer to them rather than shooting across the block and the objects being much further from them generally?

I see the point with buying the Varifocal to get the exact focal length, but when there is only 2.8mm, 3.6mm and 6mm options for the fixed. I feel like the 2.8mm will be too wide and the 6mm will be too narrow which leaves the 3.6mm which I think should be the right FOV for the distance I'm dealing with?

 

[wittaj]

The varifocal is nice because you can zoom it in optically to the correct focal point.

Cameras are an interesting study - we at first love the wide angle "I can see the whole neighborhood" aspect. But then we realize over time that we cannot IDENTIFY. And as time goes on, our understanding and acceptance that a tighter field of view is better to make that ID. So the varifocal is nice in that unless you start at max zoom, you now have room to tighten it up.

But it looks like in your situation and what YOU want to capture that you can probably get by with the fixed lens.

We generally like to do the X pattern over a driveway like you have, but if you do not park your car in the driveway, then I would try pointing the camera straight out to try to get them closer to the camera.

 

[birdie]

We generally like to do the X pattern over a driveway like you have, but if you do not park your car in the driveway, then I would try pointing the camera straight out to try to get them closer to the camera.

Yeah both of our cars get parked inside the garage.

Yeah so I might try facing the two Reolink straight out tomorrow after work to see what the FOV looks like.

I may still buy one Varifocal to start with and test it out before I jump in with the others.

Any suggestion on what to do for the front door (it is set back to left of the Front Right shot)?

 

[dudemaar]

Front door you could bring the camera wire into the garage also.



Some guys are using these small wedge cams at front door.

Amazon.com: EmpireTech Outdoor Indoor Security Surveillance Camera 2MP IR Fixed Focal Dome Starlight Camera IPC-E3241F-AS-M 2.8mm

Amazon.com: EmpireTech Outdoor Indoor Security Surveillance Camera 2MP IR Fixed Focal Dome Starlight Camera IPC-E3241F-AS-M 2.8mm

www.amazon.com

 

[wittaj]

Yeah, many do the small wedge as it is a better image as the doorbells have a lot to be desired still.

 

[sebastiantombs]

The purpose of the crisscross pattern is to have one camera be able to "watch" the other camera or at least the blind spot approaches to the camera. That may sound paranoid but it is the best practice for security purposes.

 

[birdie]

The purpose of the crisscross pattern is to have one camera be able to "watch" the other camera or at least the blind spot approaches to the camera. That may sound paranoid but it is the best practice for security purposes.

Yeah that's why the local installer suggested to do that. It made sense to me, I just wasn't sure if it was best practice due to the longer distances (hypotenuse vs leg of triangle).

What is the difference between the IPC-T5442TM-AS and the IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED? The LED version appears to have visible white LEDs, is there any reason why it is cheaper than the non LED version?

I'm thinking as suggested my best bet will be to just start with one Varifocal (IPC-T5442T-ZE) and go from there. Would it be the best value for money in terms of high quality video but not going to cost an arm and a leg?

Anything else I need to be looking at/considering?

 

[sebastiantombs]

The LED does not use IR light if I remember correctly. That can limit its' effective vision in low light conditions significantly since those two, little, white light LEDs aren't all that bright. The AS has a built-in IR filter and built-in IR LEDs that are effective in low light conditions. I stick to the AS and use IR for better night vision, but that's just me. YMMV.

You will be amazed at the 5442T-ZE. Great camera!

 

[wittaj]

I have a Full Color type camera and the LED light on it is a gimmick. It helps for a small diameter circle, but it is no different than going outside at pitch black and turning on your cell phone light - it is bright looking directly at the LED light, but it doesn't spread out and reach very far. Fortunately I have enough ambient light that I do not need the little piddly LED light on and the picture quality actually looks worse with it on, but it performs better than my other cameras when tested at the same location due to my available flood light. But without some light, a camera with infrared capability is the safer bet. Many here with the camera with the LED light on it do not use it for the very same reason - it's dispersion is not very far and doesn't light up near as well as putting a floodlight up.

So unless you have streetlights or flood lights, I would go with the camera that has infrared capabilities if you need it.

 

[TVille]

I have a Full Color type camera and the LED light on it is a gimmick. It helps for a small diameter circle, but it is no different than going outside at pitch black and turning on your cell phone light - it is bright looking directly at the LED light, but it doesn't spread out and reach very far. Fortunately I have enough ambient light that I do not need the little piddly LED light on and the picture quality actually looks worse with it on, but it performs better than my other cameras when tested at the same location due to my available flood light. But without some light, a camera with infrared capability is the safer bet. Many here with the camera with the LED light on it do not use it for the very same reason - it's dispersion is not very far and doesn't light up near as well as putting a floodlight up.

So unless you have streetlights or flood lights, I would go with the camera that has infrared capabilities if you need it.

This!

I bought a 5442 with LED instead of IR by mistake. I ordered the IR version and will be placing the LED version where a street light is at our remote garage. LEDs were about useless beyond 10 feet.

 

[birdie]

So unless you have streetlights or flood lights, I would go with the camera that has infrared capabilities if you need it.

I do have a couple of street lights in the street, but not directly in front of my house, the closest one is about 20m down the street (from my front left boundary) so I think IR is definitely the go. I do have downlights in the soffits across the front of the house (1 either side of the garage door, 1 above the entry door and 1 on far left of the house) which are connected to a PIR sensor mounted into the soffit in the middle of the garage door. These turn on when the PIR senses movement about halfway up the driveway.

 

[birdie]

I've ordered an IPC-T5442T-ZE from Andy earlier today, once I have it and test it out then I can go down the rabbit hole

 

[birdie]

I finally got a chance to install the new camera this afternoon. I am super impressed so far with how much better at low light it is than the Reolink (which makes sense due to the much larger sensor).

Captures from Blue Iris at the same time (obviously pointing different directions but still...)
The T5442-ZE:

The Reolink RLC-420-5MP



Now I need to work out what zoom I set the camera to and if I adjust the angle. Currently its set to the widest setting here. What would you suggest?


I'm thinking I'll replace the front right camera as well just need to work out what focal length for it, and maybe also add a camera above the front door for monitoring packages and also identifying people at the front door?

 

[birdie]

Any suggestions on angle and zoom for my new camera?