NVR Choice and POE Distance

[brightnight]

I have a couple of the Dahua starlight IPC-HFW5231E-Z12E cameras. I'm using these cameras to film wildlife in the woods and want to run a number of the Z12E cameras off large 12V batteries and have them record in the highest quality to single NVR. I have to use batteries because I'm off grid, I can definitely provide enough battery power, the right power converters, etc...that part I can figure out. However, once I setup the cameras I don't want to approach them for a couple months because I don't want to disturb the wildlife near the cameras, so I'd like multiple cameras to record to a central location as far away from the cameras as possible so I can check the footage without disturbing the wildlife.

1) I assume that if I power a NVR with a number of large batteries and the NVR has POE ports, I can then run Power Over Ethernet cables from the NVR to the IP cameras so that I am both powering the cameras and recording from multiple cameras to the NVR. How far can I run the Ethernet cable from the NVR with to both power the Z12E and record the footage on the NVR before I start to have problems? 100', 500', 800'?

2) I have looked at a number of NVR's but I'm aiming for something simple, cost effective, and efficient that can still record at the highest quality for a two or four Z12E cameras. I can bring a laptop to the NVR, swap hard drives, etc. I don't need to record continuously so I might use IVS/Motion detection events and specify a pre-record period, but I'm not sure how much more power this work take so most likely scenario is not taking that approach and instead triggering the cameras to record from a motion sensor like a PIR so they won't be on and using power all the time. I liked the NVR5208-8P-4KS2 and the NVR4108-8P-4KS2 8CH, but wasn't sure if either of these are the right choice for this application.

US $323.0 5% OFF|Multi language 8CH POE NVR NVR5208 8P 4KS2 8CH POE port 1U 4K&H.265 NVR up to 12MP resolution DHI NVR5208 8P 4KS2 with logo-in Surveillance Video Recorder from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

Dahua NVR4108-8P-4KS2 8CH Smart 1U 8PoE 4K&H.265 Lite Network Video Recorder - Newegg.com

 

[fenderman]

I have a couple of the Dahua starlight IPC-HFW5231E-Z12E cameras. I'm using these cameras to film wildlife in the woods and want to run a number of the Z12E cameras off large 12V batteries and have them record in the highest quality to single NVR. I have to use batteries because I'm off grid, I can definitely provide enough battery power, the right power converters, etc...that part I can figure out. However, once I setup the cameras I don't want to approach them for a couple months because I don't want to disturb the wildlife near the cameras, so I'd like multiple cameras to record to a central location as far away from the cameras as possible so I can check the footage without disturbing the wildlife.

1) I assume that if I power a NVR with a number of large batteries and the NVR has POE ports, I can then run Power Over Ethernet cables from the NVR to the IP cameras so that I am both powering the cameras and recording from multiple cameras to the NVR. How far can I run the Ethernet cable from the NVR with to both power the Z12E and record the footage on the NVR before I start to have problems? 100', 500', 800'?

2) I have looked at a number of NVR's but I'm aiming for something simple, cost effective, and efficient that can still record at the highest quality for a two or four Z12E cameras. I can bring a laptop to the NVR, swap hard drives, etc. I don't need to record continuously so I might use IVS/Motion detection events and specify a pre-record period, but I'm not sure how much more power this work take so most likely scenario is not taking that approach and instead triggering the cameras to record from a motion sensor like a PIR so they won't be on and using power all the time. I liked the NVR5208-8P-4KS2 and the NVR4108-8P-4KS2 8CH, but wasn't sure if either of these are the right choice for this application.

US $323.0 5% OFF|Multi language 8CH POE NVR NVR5208 8P 4KS2 8CH POE port 1U 4K&H.265 NVR up to 12MP resolution DHI NVR5208 8P 4KS2 with logo-in Surveillance Video Recorder from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

Dahua NVR4108-8P-4KS2 8CH Smart 1U 8PoE 4K&H.265 Lite Network Video Recorder - Newegg.com

The cameras support dahua epoe, so with a dahua NVR that supports epoe (or a dahua epoe switch) you can go 300 meters (100Mbps) or 800m (10Mbps). I would avoid the top end of those limits.

 

[fenderman]

@brightnight Also note that you wont be able to simply pull a hard drive and expect to be able to view the video by connecting it to a pc.

 

[brightnight]

@brightnight Also note that you wont be able to simply pull a hard drive and expect to be able to view the video by connecting it to a pc.

I wasn't aware of this, why wouldn't that work? I can't swap a new hard drive out of the NVR and bring the hard drive with footage on it home to see everything? Or perhaps as a work around I can connect my laptop in the field, transfer everything to the laptop that I want, and then leave the hard drive?

 

[fenderman]

I wasn't aware of this, why wouldn't that work? I can't swap a new hard drive out of the NVR and bring the hard drive with footage on it home to see everything? Or perhaps as a work around I can connect my laptop in the field, transfer everything to the laptop that I want, and then leave the hard drive?

Files are stored in a proprietary format. You would need to use Dahua disk manager. I have never used it myself so I cannot tell you how well it works and if it would meet your needs. Software/Dahua Toolbox/Disk Manager - Dahua Wiki
It would take you hours to transfer all that video to a laptop

 

[tangent]

I have to use batteries because I'm off grid, I can definitely provide enough battery power, the right power converters, etc

I home this goes without saying, but batteries need to be charged . Something like an NVR and PoE cameras use a lot more power than a game camera that's asleep most of the time.

 

[brightnight]

I home this goes without saying, but batteries need to be charged . Something like an NVR and PoE cameras use a lot more power than a game camera that's asleep most of the time.

Yep, I can add a few large 12V batteries and solar panels to keep them charged, and if I really need to I can switch out 12V batteries every day or every couple days

 

[tangent]

Yep, I can add a few large 12V batteries and solar panels to keep them charged, and if I really need to I can switch out 12V batteries every day or every couple days

It ultimately comes down to doing the math on power consumption and battery charging.

The NVR most likely has a power supply that operates of of AC power and outputs 12VDC and 48-56VDC to the power the NVR (this is generally the case for NVRs with internal power supplies). If your NVR has an external power supply it may only output a single voltage (likely either 12V or 48V). PoE uses a voltage around 48-56VDC, the cameras set it down internally. If you're powering the cameras by PoE you won't be hooking the cameras directly to batteries. It's worth noting that cameras expect a well regulated DC power supply and simply hooking up a battery will not work for most cameras except a few that have been designed to be more tolerant of battery operation. It you're using PoE this is irrelevant so long as the NVR gets reliable power.

The IPC-HFW5231E-Z12E uses less than 12.95W according to the specs. The high end of that would be at night if IR is turned on and maybe the lens is moving. Long cable runs for PoE will result in more power being lost in the cable, the resistance of the cable will likely dissipate several watts of power.

Lets say the NVR uses 15 watts, the hard drive uses 10W, and you have 8 cameras that average 10W that's a total power consumption of 105W. This number may need to be increased to account for PSU inefficiency. Most of the time the cameras would use less power, perhaps 4-6 watts. However for long cable runs budgeting higher is a good idea. 24 hours * 120W (accounting for some inefficiency in the NVR (eg. divide by 0.8)) = 2.88KWh. Add some inefficiency for inverters and battery chargers and that could stretch to 3.6KWH. New York averages 4 peak sun hours, so during those 4 hours You'd need to generate about 4.1KWh. So that's roughly a 1kW solar solution and at least 260Ah in 12V batteries.

With only 4 cameras you're closer to 2.4KWh and a 700W solar solution and 170Ah in 12V batteries.

If you're "off the grid" you should have a handle on doing this sort of calculation, but I thought it would be a good idea to work through an example.

 

[tangent]

I don't need to record continuously so I might use IVS/Motion detection events and specify a pre-record period, but I'm not sure how much more power this work take so most likely scenario is not taking that approach and instead triggering the cameras to record from a motion sensor like a PIR so they won't be on and using power all the time.

With cameras like this and an NVR you won't save any power by only recording on motion unless the HDD is able to spin down. Even then any power savings would be negligible. The lowest power option would be a solar solution for a game camera.

 

[pozzello]

i wouldn't count on being able to 'power up' a cam in time based on PIR trigger. each cam is basically a little Linux computer that needs some time to boot up, get an IP address from the NVR, etc. it takes at least 30 seconds for most cams to start providing a video stream from bootup, so you'd miss a lot of action that way.

 

[brightnight]

i wouldn't count on being able to 'power up' a cam in time based on PIR trigger. each cam is basically a little Linux computer that needs some time to boot up, get an IP address from the NVR, etc. it takes at least 30 seconds for most cams to start providing a video stream from bootup, so you'd miss a lot of action that way.

Thank-you I didn't know this! I guess that means it will be on all the time.

 

[bababouy]

Can you send the camera data over a wireless bridge to an NVR that is in a building? Do you have line of sight to the area where you are putting the cameras? This would require just running a PoE switch or injector to power the camera and power the nano station.

 

[brightnight]

Can you send the camera data over a wireless bridge to an NVR that is in a building? Do you have line of sight to the area where you are putting the cameras? This would require just running a PoE switch or injector to power the camera and power the nano station.

That might be possible. It's probably half a mile distance to the nearest house so I might be able to manage that. I'll have to do some research into the nano station, I haven't looked at them at all. I guess it would come down to power. If powering the cameras and sending all the video over a bridge is less power then that might be the way to go. Assuming a strong signal, is the video quality still just as good as a wired connection or is it downgraded before it's sent?

 

[tangent]

Are you sure you need the HFW5231E-Z12 and can't place less expensive cameras closer to your subject material?

My earlier power estimates are a little on the high end for a variety of reasons. Lots of things affect power consumption, even the complexity of the scene the camera is looking at.

That might be possible. It's probably half a mile distance to the nearest house so I might be able to manage that. I'll have to do some research into the nano station, I haven't looked at them at all. I guess it would come down to power. If powering the cameras and sending all the video over a bridge is less power then that might be the way to go. Assuming a strong signal, is the video quality still just as good as a wired connection or is it downgraded before it's sent?

You need a clear line of sight for a wireless link to work. You'd save some power doing it this way, but not tons. It would also help if you could shorten the distance between the PoE switch or NVR and cameras.