Found the 05 November 2020 article called “Ink-Stained Wretches” - quite long – see paragraphs 16 and 17 about Hewlett Packard using a 5 month delay programmed into their printer security firmware update to force people back to using only original HP ink cartridges very cynically timed to coincide with the School year Ink-Stained Wretches: The Battle for the Soul of Digital Freedom Taking Place Inside Your Printer
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE Rhea V2.800.0000016.0.R.200430 Latest new firmware
- Thread starter EMPIRETECANDY
- Start date
anybody notice that with V2.800.0000015.0.R, Build Date: 2020-04-30, the WDR setting does nothing?
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
i did a factory reset, updated the firmware, did a factory reset again. the WDR still doesn't work. they must have broke it in a firmware update a while back. doesn't work on any of my cameras, confirmed with version V2.800.0000015.0.R, Build Date: 2020-04-30 or later. i wonder with which version number it stopped working?
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Be sure you are using Internet Explorer to make settings.
I have no problems with my 5231's on that firmware and WDR.
that worked. i wonder what other settings were not applied because i didn't use IE?
p.s, is it normal to have your fps limited to 30 when using WDR?
Lot's of features are possibly missing not using IE. Or the settings won't hold.
Most of us try to avoid WDR unless nothing else in the settings can tame it and if we do, it is very little. My one problematic view the WDR is on 4.
Most of us don't use 30 FPS...
Shutter speed is more important than FPS. 30FPS is a waste of storage space and compromises your entire system.
Shutter speed gives you the ability to stop the video to get a clean capture. FPS only gives smoothness. But if it is maxing out the capacity of the camera, then other parameters have to give to make 30 FPS and that is usually slowing the shutter....
Keep in mind that these type of cameras, although are spec'd and capable of these various parameters, real world testing by many of us shows if you try to run these units at higher FPS and higher bitrates than needed that you will max out the CPU in the unit and then it bugs out just long enough that you miss something or video is choppy. My car is rated for 6,000RPM redline, but I am not gonna run it in 3rd gear on the highway at 6,000RPM...same with these types of units - gotta keep them under rated capacity. Some may do better than others, but trying to use the rated "spec" of every option available is usually not going to work well, either with a car or a camera or NVR.
Look at all the threads where people came here with a jitter in the video or IVS missing motion or the SD card doesn't overwrite and they were running 30FPS and when people tell them to drop the FPS and they dropped the FPS to 15FPS the camera became stable and they could actual freeze frame the image to get a clean capture. The goal of these cameras are to capture a perp, not capture smooth motion. When we see the news, are they showing the video or a freeze frame screen shot? Nobody cares if it isn't butter smooth...getting the features to make an ID is the important factor. As always, YMMV...
Further, these types of cameras are not GoPro or Hollywood type cameras that offer slow-mo capabilities and other features. They "offer" 30FPS and 60FPS to appease the general public that thinks that is what they need, but you will not find many of us here running more than 15 FPS; and movies are shot at 24 FPS, so anything above that is a waste of storage space for what these cameras are used for. If 24 FPS works for the big screen, I think 15 FPS is more than enough for phones and tablets and most monitors LOL. Many of my cameras are running at 12FPS.
In fact, many times if a CPU is maxing out, it will adhere to the 30FPS but then slow the shutter down to try to not max the CPU, which then produces a smooth blurry image..that is the video my neighbor gets who insists on running 60FPS. He gets smooth walking people but you can't freeze frame it cause every frame is a blur, meanwhile my 12FPS gets the clean freeze frame. Shutter speed is more important the FPS. We both run the same shutter speed by the way, but his camera CPU is maxing out and something gotta give when you push it that hard.
Most of us try to avoid WDR unless nothing else in the settings can tame it and if we do, it is very little. My one problematic view the WDR is on 4.
Most of us don't use 30 FPS...
Shutter speed is more important than FPS. 30FPS is a waste of storage space and compromises your entire system.
Shutter speed gives you the ability to stop the video to get a clean capture. FPS only gives smoothness. But if it is maxing out the capacity of the camera, then other parameters have to give to make 30 FPS and that is usually slowing the shutter....
Keep in mind that these type of cameras, although are spec'd and capable of these various parameters, real world testing by many of us shows if you try to run these units at higher FPS and higher bitrates than needed that you will max out the CPU in the unit and then it bugs out just long enough that you miss something or video is choppy. My car is rated for 6,000RPM redline, but I am not gonna run it in 3rd gear on the highway at 6,000RPM...same with these types of units - gotta keep them under rated capacity. Some may do better than others, but trying to use the rated "spec" of every option available is usually not going to work well, either with a car or a camera or NVR.
Look at all the threads where people came here with a jitter in the video or IVS missing motion or the SD card doesn't overwrite and they were running 30FPS and when people tell them to drop the FPS and they dropped the FPS to 15FPS the camera became stable and they could actual freeze frame the image to get a clean capture. The goal of these cameras are to capture a perp, not capture smooth motion. When we see the news, are they showing the video or a freeze frame screen shot? Nobody cares if it isn't butter smooth...getting the features to make an ID is the important factor. As always, YMMV...
Further, these types of cameras are not GoPro or Hollywood type cameras that offer slow-mo capabilities and other features. They "offer" 30FPS and 60FPS to appease the general public that thinks that is what they need, but you will not find many of us here running more than 15 FPS; and movies are shot at 24 FPS, so anything above that is a waste of storage space for what these cameras are used for. If 24 FPS works for the big screen, I think 15 FPS is more than enough for phones and tablets and most monitors LOL. Many of my cameras are running at 12FPS.
In fact, many times if a CPU is maxing out, it will adhere to the 30FPS but then slow the shutter down to try to not max the CPU, which then produces a smooth blurry image..that is the video my neighbor gets who insists on running 60FPS. He gets smooth walking people but you can't freeze frame it cause every frame is a blur, meanwhile my 12FPS gets the clean freeze frame. Shutter speed is more important the FPS. We both run the same shutter speed by the way, but his camera CPU is maxing out and something gotta give when you push it that hard.
wittaj, that is a very informative reply. have changed my main stream settings to:
h.265
smart codec off
1080p
15fps
vbr
quality 6
4096 max bitrate
iframe 15
for conditions:
wdr is set to 4 for day and night
exposure mode is set to auto but maybe i should put it at shutter priority 1/60 for night?
sebastiantombs
Known around here
gives a slightly darker image. but im guessing movement will be picked up less blurry?
though i got WDR working by making the settings in internet explorer, WDR doesn't work while in in black and white mode at night when IR is on. this must be by design?
WDR at night will work, but you do not want it at night.
In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.
Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.
But first, run H264, smart codec off, CBR, and 8192 bitrate to start. This should make it more crisp.
I think you should also take off manual IR - your camera is low so you are getting a lot of IR bounce off the ground that is degrading the picture.
Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.
Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?
So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.
You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.
You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.
But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.
Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.
After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.
Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.
But first, run H264, smart codec off, CBR, and 8192 bitrate to start. This should make it more crisp.
I think you should also take off manual IR - your camera is low so you are getting a lot of IR bounce off the ground that is degrading the picture.
Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.
Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?
So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.
You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.
You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.
But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.
Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.
After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
i have disabled WDR for night.
cameras are using smartIR
do you recommend against using h.265? i had just switched all my cameras over today. pretty much using highest bitrate shown, VBR level 6.
also, what is the next interval up from 8.3ms for the shutter speed? 8.3ms seems a tad bit dark. does it have to be a specific number because of the frame rate of 15?
Most of us have found the H264 produces a better image than H265.
Most of us have found that CBR is better than VBR because with quick motion, the camera has to ramp up the bitrate under VBR, so you may miss some detail in the very beginning, even more so with H265 where they macroblock big chunks of the image that it doesn't think has motion.
You can try whatever shutter speed you want, but the slower the shutter, the more likely for motion blur. You could try 10ms. I usually go in 2ms increments and then fractional at that point to try to optimize it.
As always, YMMV.
Most of us have found that CBR is better than VBR because with quick motion, the camera has to ramp up the bitrate under VBR, so you may miss some detail in the very beginning, even more so with H265 where they macroblock big chunks of the image that it doesn't think has motion.
You can try whatever shutter speed you want, but the slower the shutter, the more likely for motion blur. You could try 10ms. I usually go in 2ms increments and then fractional at that point to try to optimize it.
As always, YMMV.
i changed back to h264.h and am using CBR.
should i use h.264 or h.264h ?
what bitrate should i use for 15fps 1080p?
Most systems do not like anything after the number, so just H264.
Most find that 4096 work well with 1080p, but it is field of view dependent, so I would suggest start there and add or remove 1024 bitrate increments until you see if there is a difference. At some point too high is a waste of storage with no gain in visual improvement, and too low results in a blurry image.
Most find that 4096 work well with 1080p, but it is field of view dependent, so I would suggest start there and add or remove 1024 bitrate increments until you see if there is a difference. At some point too high is a waste of storage with no gain in visual improvement, and too low results in a blurry image.
Do the settings you are talking about, apply to the IPC-T5442T-EZ also? Or should a person use different settings for that?
The same for the 5442 as well, but most here have found that the 5442 needs at least 8192 bitrate (which makes sense since it is a 4MP).
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Yes, Daytime only. Using wdr at night can create noise in the pic.