The "Old School" Installer

[AlltheMPs]

Need some help convincing an "Old School" installer that the low light benefits of a 1.3mp camera don't outweigh the detail of a 5mp camera.

My family business has been using the same installer for years and we are looking to upgrade the remaining analog cameras in our Geovision setup. I suggested moving the camera that currently covers the main entrance to our facility to replace one of our aging analog cameras and hang a new 5mp camera in its place. His words to me about a higher resolution camera was that "they don't do as well at night". While there is some truth to that when the CMOS sensor is the same size, I can't read a licence plate from an oncoming car on a clear day from 30 feet away traveling 5 mph and as far as lighting goes, this area is blanketed by light at night.

I am trying to remain respectful, but this guy apparently doesn't want us to spend more money on a better camera... or he may just be pedaling out-of-date tech so he can sell upgrades sooner. I just don't get it.

My family is not interested in using another installer as the guy always shows up when there is a problem and has assisted them with other IT issues for free.

Can anyone provide snapshots/video comparing the night performance of a lower mp camera vs a higher mp camera of the same model/manufacturer?

Thank you for any/all help!

 

[klasipca]

In this day an age I would personally not invest in any 1.3MP camera. 2.0MP is a bare minimum and generally it has better low light sensitivity then higher megapixel cams, but really depends on the sensor used. If you willing to splurge there are 6MP cams with large sensor which provide excellent night image http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/products_508.html.

Btw, which 5MP camera are you thinking?

 

[AlltheMPs]

http://www.geovision.com.tw/english/Prod_GVIPCAMBX5300.asp

I would love to go Hikvision or Axis but he wants to stay with Geovision as it more "compatible" with the Geovision NVR software.

 

[klasipca]

You won't find love here for Geovision, frankly I am not familiar with their cams or firmware. We are mainly Hikvision (or Dahua) oriented on this forum.

I looked at the spec and prices of these Geovision 5MP GV‑BX5300 and looks like they are quite spendy. The sensor is small, lux rating 0.10 and 10 fps at full resolution tells me these are highly overpriced for all the features. You installer is correct that night performance with 5MP will not be as good as cheaper Geovision 1.3MP cam with more sensitive sensor and less pixels, but even budget Hikvision 2 line with 4MP has better specs then any of these options. Sorry, it just pains me to see the prices on these and what you get in return.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Your installer may be right for some specific jobs when comparing a good 1.3 to a crappy 5mp. There are some really versatile 4 and 5mp cams available now that function quite well at night and truly destroy a 1.3 for detail in the day.

As far as Geovision compatibility goes though, the big issue will probably be motion alerts via ONVIF. I haven't looked at Geovision in a dog's age but I assume it'll view "generic" cams via ONVIF. That's different from recognizing a motion event from an ONVIF stream and is a very important feature for most installations. If Geovision won't do that with other brands and their 5mp is crap at night then you might be stuck with adding some 5mp Geovisions alongside the 1.3s for a dual cam day/night use, or finding software that'll properly support your current Geos alongside another brand's higher resolution cams.

Just remember- motion event support is the key. Lots of folks say that their cams "work great" with NVR X or software Y but they often mean video only. It takes something like Blue Iris running on a decent computer to do additional motion decoding. NVRs and most computer NVR software just read events in the camera's stream rather than doing the grunt work. If the camera isn't listed as compatible with the NVR/software, then you have to hope that the two ONVIF implementations talk nicely together. Geovision experience is needed here unless you commit to changing to something completely different.

 

[bp2008]

Geovision experience is needed here unless you commit to changing to something completely different.

I see no reason whatsoever to use Geovision. If the installer won't use anything else, I say find a different installer or DIY it.

I would be hesitant to buy any small Chinese brand, because literally every time I do that I have problems with the camera. Last time it was a huisun 2MP ptz bullet mounted in a remote location. It has been offline since December 16th when it got snowed in so nobody could go power cycle it when that meant an 80 mile round trip on snowmobiles.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Changing from that software depends on the client. I see no huge reason to use it on a NEW install, particularly if the installer wants to use all Geovision cams, but switching to something else might be expensive and problematic, particularly in a commercial environment. Think training multiple users, possible expensive licences particularly for specialty features, point of sale software integration with video, etc. Swapping existing software commercially has to be considered carefully on a case by case basis. How many people here have experience tagging video by receipt number? We don't know what his Geovision system is doing so we have to be careful making recommendations.

 

[digger11]

Last time it was a huisun 2MP ptz bullet mounted in a remote location. It has been offline since December 16th when it got snowed in so nobody could go power cycle it when that meant an 80 mile round trip on snowmobiles.

@bp2008 At our mountain home I decided to spend a little more and use a managed PoE switch just so I can teamviewer in to the BI server and then log onto the switch and turn PoE off/on for individual ports to power cycle a camera remotely. Since I also have a VeraLite at the house now, as I expand beyond the existing switch's capacity I may try plugging a TP-Link PoE switch into to an Aeon Labs Z-Wave smart switch so I can power cycle the TP-Link along with all of the cameras attached to it. With a 3-hour 1-way driving distance to the house I'm all for anything that I can set up to be accomplished remotely.

I even have the BI server plugged into one of the Aeon Labs switches and the BIOS set to automatically boot the server after loss of power. That way I can power cycle the BI server remotely via the VeraLite if the server were to hang.

 

[AlltheMPs]

The great news in our situation is that we would only have one person to train (myself) and my day job is supervising the CCTV Dispatch of a very large facility (Dvtel VMS with dozens of PTZs and 4Ks) so I shouldn't have an issue with a new system. We also don't have POS integration and our business only has 9 cameras.

I have considered asking the installer if he's familar with Milestone as a license for a new server and 9 cameras would be too bad and that would open our camera options up tremendously.

 

[Kawboy12R]

I preferred Avigilon to Milestone but they aren't terribly consumer friendly. If they decide your contract isn't big enough to interest them they tend to just stop answering your emails to make you go away.

 

[klasipca]

@bp2008 At our mountain home I decided to spend a little more and use a managed PoE switch just so I can teamviewer in to the BI server and then log onto the switch and turn PoE off/on for individual ports to power cycle a camera remotely. Since I also have a VeraLite at the house now, as I expand beyond the existing switch's capacity I may try plugging a TP-Link PoE switch into to an Aeon Labs Z-Wave smart switch so I can power cycle the TP-Link along with all of the cameras attached to it. With a 3-hour 1-way driving distance to the house I'm all for anything that I can set up to be accomplished remotely.

I even have the BI server plugged into one of the Aeon Labs switches and the BIOS set to automatically boot the server after loss of power. That way I can power cycle the BI server remotely via the VeraLite if the server were to hang.

My thinking was the same also if you are installing a system remotely you always want to add some sort of remote power cycle mechanism. My cams are connected to NVR and NVR is connected to a cheap cloud plug. Works well if a camera hangs or NVR, although I have never had Huisun's lose connection and not comeback automatically.

http://www.amazon.com/Edimax-Wi-Fi-Energy-Management-SP-2101W/dp/B00N4OBJAO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460568197&sr=8-1&keywords=edimax+power+plug

 

[bp2008]

My thinking was the same also if you are installing a system remotely you always want to add some sort of remote power cycle mechanism. My cams are connected to NVR and NVR is connected to a cheap cloud plug. Works well if a camera hangs or NVR, although I have never had Huisun's lose connection and not comeback automatically.

http://www.amazon.com/Edimax-Wi-Fi-Energy-Management-SP-2101W/dp/B00N4OBJAO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460568197&sr=8-1&keywords=edimax+power+plug

I agree, but it is my dad's location and equipment and he procrastinates. Everything is wired straight to a 12v battery bank so it is a pain to cycle things even when you are physically there.

 

[AlltheMPs]

Does anyone have good luck with using an IR illuminator from Raytec or Bosch? I used Raytecs calculator and for the area it should easily be lit up by one of their more inexpensive models.