Suggestions for Camera Setup at Subdivision Pool \ rec area

[nbstl68]

I am being tasked by our subdivision's board to come up with a "stand alone" or otherwise "closed" , (NOT 24/7 internet connected), security camera solution for our small neighborhood pool and pavilion area.
The key interest is to capture and document possible instances of vandalism, theft, accidents, or other "he said \ she said" interactions or complaints among neighbors and guests if they occur.

First off, a prepackaged IP\ethernet connected\powered camera & NVR bundle would be the simplest for me to implement I imagine, so for simplicity sake, are any of the box store, (Costco) systems even worth looking at these days? I have had poor experience with those but that was several years ago. Maybe their offerings have gotten better?
If bundle is not optimal, any recommendations for camera \ NVR combo choices would be appreciated.


Some key thoughts of requirements:

• 4+ cameras. Maybe split pool coverage with 2 cameras.
• Decent quality day\night video of course, (no lighting around the area at night).
  • B\W IR is fine. "Night color" is not necessary.
  • Are "4k" or higher res cameras of any value at night or is 2MP still the go-to for overall day\night quality balance?
• Good audio capture would be a "nice to have" feature, at least for cameras facing poolside or under the open air pavilion.
• separate \ better mic camera add-on an option?
• On-site only, stand-alone access to NVR recordings when needed .
  • Although this would be an inconvenience for sure, along with security concern comes the uncomfortableness of "is someone watching us at the pool?".
  • Wi-Fi access is available if necessary for setup but prefer to be able to then record and run unattended and show assurance to the residents it is NOT connected to the internet and would require on-site presence to watch video playback.
• 24/7 recording with motion event capture
  • This would be more of a visual deterrent \ reactive after the fact evidence surveillance. Active alerts to a phone app, sirens, for example, would not be needed.
  • LED motion triggered lighting on camera I've seen on some could be useful deterrent for the pool facing cameras as long as it is reasonably manageable to trigger only on actual people\large objects vs. going on an off all night from false triggers as they would be facing the direction of some homes.
• Simplicity and reliability.
  • Want to be able to "set & forget" then hand off to residents without technical or computer skills to manage \ check it is working on regular intervals.
• The NVR unit location would be the locked pump room equipment closet, (roughly 5x5x9H), which has no HVAC so temps would at least match outdoor or higher which may be a concern to equipment longevity.
  • Are there more rugged units that can handle high \ low temps?
  • Would this require a special case with additional cooling fans to reduce heat failure?

See area overview image attached with initial camera placement thoughts.

 

[samplenhold]

I am partial to Dahua, so a Dahua NVR and some 5442 cams would be my first choice. The cams are 4MP on the 1/1.8" sensor and are great in low light especially with IR when no light available. The turret versions have good audio. Realize that in some jurisdictions audio recording can be an issue.

Those 4 cams will have quite a hard time giving any face ID shots from those distances. Those are all very wide-angle shots.

@bigredfish or @Wildcat_1 could probably give you a specific NVR recommendation.

 

[mat200]

I am being tasked by our subdivision's board to come up with a "stand alone" or otherwise "closed" , (NOT 24/7 internet connected), security camera solution for our small neighborhood pool and pavilion area.
The key interest is to capture and document possible instances of vandalism, theft, accidents, or other "he said \ she said" interactions or complaints among neighbors and guests if they occur.

First off, a prepackaged IP\ethernet connected\powered camera & NVR bundle would be the simplest for me to implement I imagine, so for simplicity sake, are any of the box store, (Costco) systems even worth looking at these days? I have had poor experience with those but that was several years ago. Maybe their offerings have gotten better?
If bundle is not optimal, any recommendations for camera \ NVR combo choices would be appreciated.


Some key thoughts of requirements:

• 4+ cameras. Maybe split pool coverage with 2 cameras.
• Decent quality day\night video of course, (no lighting around the area at night).
  • B\W IR is fine. "Night color" is not necessary.
  • Are "4k" or higher res cameras of any value at night or is 2MP still the go-to for overall day\night quality balance?
• Good audio capture would be a "nice to have" feature, at least for cameras facing poolside or under the open air pavilion.
• separate \ better mic camera add-on an option?
• On-site only, stand-alone access to NVR recordings when needed .
  • Although this would be an inconvenience for sure, along with security concern comes the uncomfortableness of "is someone watching us at the pool?".
  • Wi-Fi access is available if necessary for setup but prefer to be able to then record and run unattended and show assurance to the residents it is NOT connected to the internet and would require on-site presence to watch video playback.
• 24/7 recording with motion event capture
  • This would be more of a visual deterrent \ reactive after the fact evidence surveillance. Active alerts to a phone app, sirens, for example, would not be needed.
  • LED motion triggered lighting on camera I've seen on some could be useful deterrent for the pool facing cameras as long as it is reasonably manageable to trigger only on actual people\large objects vs. going on an off all night from false triggers as they would be facing the direction of some homes.
• Simplicity and reliability.
  • Want to be able to "set & forget" then hand off to residents without technical or computer skills to manage \ check it is working on regular intervals.
• The NVR unit location would be the locked pump room equipment closet, (roughly 5x5x9H), which has no HVAC so temps would at least match outdoor or higher which may be a concern to equipment longevity.
  • Are there more rugged units that can handle high \ low temps?
  • Would this require a special case with additional cooling fans to reduce heat failure?

See area overview image attached with initial camera placement thoughts.
View attachment 134226

What is more important:

a) Day or Night Time image capture?
b) Quality of image capture? or Tight budget?

 

[sebastiantombs]

Too much area with too few cameras equals failure at the most critical time.

 

[wittaj]

See this thread on the importance of the proper focal length over MP, complete with camera recommendations based on distance to IDENTIFY

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[mat200]

I am being tasked by our subdivision's board to come up with a "stand alone" or otherwise "closed" , (NOT 24/7 internet connected), security camera solution for our small neighborhood pool and pavilion area.
The key interest is to capture and document possible instances of vandalism, theft, accidents, or other "he said \ she said" interactions or complaints among neighbors and guests if they occur.

First off, a prepackaged IP\ethernet connected\powered camera & NVR bundle would be the simplest for me to implement I imagine, so for simplicity sake, are any of the box store, (Costco) systems even worth looking at these days? I have had poor experience with those but that was several years ago. Maybe their offerings have gotten better?
If bundle is not optimal, any recommendations for camera \ NVR combo choices would be appreciated.


Some key thoughts of requirements:

• 4+ cameras. Maybe split pool coverage with 2 cameras.
• Decent quality day\night video of course, (no lighting around the area at night).
  • B\W IR is fine. "Night color" is not necessary.
  • Are "4k" or higher res cameras of any value at night or is 2MP still the go-to for overall day\night quality balance?
• Good audio capture would be a "nice to have" feature, at least for cameras facing poolside or under the open air pavilion.
• separate \ better mic camera add-on an option?
• On-site only, stand-alone access to NVR recordings when needed .
  • Although this would be an inconvenience for sure, along with security concern comes the uncomfortableness of "is someone watching us at the pool?".
  • Wi-Fi access is available if necessary for setup but prefer to be able to then record and run unattended and show assurance to the residents it is NOT connected to the internet and would require on-site presence to watch video playback.
• 24/7 recording with motion event capture
  • This would be more of a visual deterrent \ reactive after the fact evidence surveillance. Active alerts to a phone app, sirens, for example, would not be needed.
  • LED motion triggered lighting on camera I've seen on some could be useful deterrent for the pool facing cameras as long as it is reasonably manageable to trigger only on actual people\large objects vs. going on an off all night from false triggers as they would be facing the direction of some homes.
• Simplicity and reliability.
  • Want to be able to "set & forget" then hand off to residents without technical or computer skills to manage \ check it is working on regular intervals.
• The NVR unit location would be the locked pump room equipment closet, (roughly 5x5x9H), which has no HVAC so temps would at least match outdoor or higher which may be a concern to equipment longevity.
  • Are there more rugged units that can handle high \ low temps?
  • Would this require a special case with additional cooling fans to reduce heat failure?

See area overview image attached with initial camera placement thoughts.
View attachment 134226

HI @nbstl68

I concur with :

"Too much area with too few cameras equals failure at the most critical time. " - @sebastiantombs

For example, instead of one very wide FOC camera covering the pool area,
I would look at 3.6mm or 90 degree FOV as the widest FOV for the pool area .. and look to place 2 cameras, one on each side of the pool building over looking the pool area.

If the primary is day time, then I would go with a 8MP camera with a larger sensor ..
If night time, then perhaps a 4MP 1/1.8" sensor would be better ..

 

[looney2ns]

Any of the 5442 series of cameras would serve you well in either turret or bullet configurations. Bullet cameras would allow you to add external microphones.

The 5000 series of dahua nvrs would fit your needs.

You need to find or create a better location than the pump house to install the NVR.

Remember you want to know who did it not just what happened. Meaning you need to choose the correct camera with correct lens for the area you need to cover, one size fits all will result in failure. Avoid the kits.
Be sure and study the cliff notes.

 

[nbstl68]

Thanks all for the input. Lots of good thoughts for me to consider.
That layout was just my initial placement thought. Two 90 deg cams for the pool could be the better option. I was also considering trying to talk them into something like the 4 x 2 MP PFW8840-A180 panoramic style camera, (I have one of these on my garage and like the simple 1 unit \180 deg full coverage.)
That would be the primary area to want to ID people day \ night and possibly catch conversation of an argument. The other areas, like toward the tennis court, field, farm house would really be more for daytime \ overview to cover basic details of if someone had an accident or altercation, in which case we'd most likely know who was involved.

While a hot \ cold pump room is certainly not ideal, it may be the only option.
The small 1 room "club house" (an old farm house), is the only other building anywhere near the pool, so for direct power and at least minimal security of the NVR and ease of setup, the closet under the pavilion seems the only option. If it were in the other building, (which does have HVAC and would be preferable to house an NVR) , then the setup would have to get more complicated, more $$ and less reliable with a Wi-Fi bridge or something like that to the cameras which I have no experience with and people, in general, I read say to stay away from Wi-Fi when using sec cameras if possible. Trenching for CAT cable from the farm house to the pavilion for wired cam connections if the NVR was placed in the farm house, I doubt would be considered bc of complexity and cost as well. This whole arrangement is really a "Nice to have" suggestion that came up after an altercation and minor vandalism. I don't have a budget from the board yet but I expect enough to cover this series NVR and 4-6 cameras would be considered.

I'll check out the suggested cameras and the 5000 series NVR but does anyone know off the top of their heads if that NVR series & cameras can be set up & run\managed directly from a connected monitor & keyboard without internet connected to it?

I don't know that we'd need more than a 7 day 24/7 recording roll. Any guesses to the TB size needed for that? I believe there are some calculators out there I'll search for to figure that stuff out.

I added a few more pics of the areas in question.

 

[sebastiantombs]

A word on WiFi links. A dedicated encrypted WiFi link is entirely different from normal WiFi. It is literally point to point and uses high gain directional antennas. The bandwidth is sufficient to handle at least eight if not twelve cameras at 4MP/2K.

When placing the NVR I'd keep it as far away from the pool equipment as possible. The chlorine in the air will screw it up royally in short order. Having it in an environmentally controlled secure location is the best way to go.

 

[samplenhold]

5000 series NVR but does anyone know off the top of their heads if that NVR series & cameras can be set up & run\managed directly from a connected monitor & keyboard without internet connected to it?

Will not require internet.

 

[nbstl68]

So it sounds like the pump room is just going to get too hot\cold\damp and I'm afraid a typical NVR unit would fail at some point.
The room across from it is a bathroom, (also w no HVAC), and just a vent fan so not a great option either. Both rooms have open air space above them but below the roof. So thinking that may be the only option. Still not optimal but at least open air while being covered from the elements. I imagine a hard driving rain or snow could get in there though so probably will have to look at exterior cabinet houseing w fans.

One item I did run across when Googling are some "rugged" NVR solutions like the following below. Examples show them used at car washes, for example. Anyone have any experience with such setups like this one below? NEMA enclosed and can support most any camera models? (Wonder about use of in-camera rules like trip wire and such since I think some of that requires a mfg matching NVR to set up, but in this case probably would not be used much.)

RuggedVision-5 Gen II - Outdoor IP NVR

Outdoor 8 Channel NVR GL Mango Wifi Plug-N-Play Onvif compliant

www.rugged-cctv.com

 

[wittaj]

@bigredfish has been running NVRs and gear outside for years in units like that.

The major concern with the pump room is the chemicals more so than the heat.

 

[bigredfish]

Here’s the one I used to replace one that got damaged last year.

Allied Moulded Ultra-Line Fiberglass Series Enclosure- Hinged Opaque Screw Cover20X16X10

Description Specifications NEMA Ratings Non-corrosive, non-conductive, light weight with lower installation cost, easy to modify and longer life cycle compared to steel. Rigid design with back panel inserts plus nonmetallic mounting brackets and a gasket system encased in a continuous channel on...

nemasupply.com

I have two. Both house an NVR, cable modem, asus router, and Dahua midspan for a ptz. Only venting is one hole at bottom.
Ive lost one modem in 6 years in the Florida heat. One is somewhat shaded, the other is on a brick wall and gets direct sun

 

[nbstl68]

Here’s the one I used to replace one that got damaged last year.

Allied Moulded Ultra-Line Fiberglass Series Enclosure- Hinged Opaque Screw Cover20X16X10

Description Specifications NEMA Ratings Non-corrosive, non-conductive, light weight with lower installation cost, easy to modify and longer life cycle compared to steel. Rigid design with back panel inserts plus nonmetallic mounting brackets and a gasket system encased in a continuous channel on...

nemasupply.com

I have two. Both house an NVR, cable modem, asus router, and Dahua midspan for a ptz. Only venting is one hole at bottom.
Ive lost one modem in 6 years in the Florida heat. One is somewhat shaded, the other is on a brick wall and gets direct sin

The link I posted is kind of an all-in-one kit; (NVR,POE Switch, Wi-Fi connector, power, SSHD). Is your set-up more of individual components fit into a standard NEMA box? Was your cost for all items similar or better? Looking at it to gauge if something like the RuggedVision setup would be a reasonable deal v.s sourcing each "best" component separately if that is what you have there.

Also agree w @bigredfish the chemics would def be an issue in the pump house. But set in the space on top of the room, as it is sealed off from it, could work if the equipment could handle the high\low\temps.

 

[wittaj]

It would be much cheaper to purchase the components than buy that all-in-one and then have to deal with probably crap cameras to go along with their NVR. It is best to match camera and NVR brand to ensure full functionality. You will find that ONVIF compatibility in many instances doesn't mean much. Maybe all it can pull is the camera feed but not use any of the camera analytics as an example.

 

[samplenhold]

Don't forget you need a place to house the monitor, keyboard, and mouse.

 

[bigredfish]

I don’t know anything about their camera/NVR gear but yes I pieced it together.

rough numbers
Box 20x16 - $300
NVR $225
HD $100
Router $100
Cable modem free (well we pay $100 p/mo for the dedicated connection/IP)

 

[sebastiantombs]

Again I'll suggest a wireless link. You're spending roughly $300 for an enclosure to protect the NVR and associated equipment in the pool house. A pair of Ubiquity Nano Loco M5s are in the $150-$175 range and would let you locate the NVR in a secure, environmentally friendly environment. They are very reliable and capable of linking at over a kilometer.

 

[bigredfish]

Can’t argue with that. I just didn’t have another location for the NVRs

 

[looney2ns]

If budget is a concern, I recently purchased two of these for a total of ~$100 from Provantage.com