Noob - Security concern advice

G

gosanke100

n3wb
Feb 28, 2017
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My wife has a crazy meth head uncle that has reported to several local law enforcement agencies that we have stolen things from him, molested his dog and other outrageous things over the last 5 years. We have never found any evidence he has been on our property until last week. I found some of his mail and a tool in my storage shed which is attached to the side of my house. He had to have broke into it. The police are involved but can do nothing at this point. My wife is really upset because he is unstable and she is afraid he may do something more serious.

My wife wants security cameras put up to monitor the sides, back and front of the house. I was researching security cameras which led me to this forum. I am a diy guy but have never messed with cameras. I have no problem putting up cameras but need to order something quick. She is on me every day but I don't want to buy some crap just to get some up. Is there somewhere on the forum or a direction you can point me where I can explain the logistics and get a recommendation on what cameras and NVR to use?

Also, Does this route make the most sense or is there a better way to approach the security aspect?

Thanks,
Dan
 
gosanke100,
Welcome to the forum! Some initial thoughts are below.
- Security and Cameras are different. Some overlap for sure. But cameras and recording video on their own often don't provide the kind of security that a monitored alarm system (ie: call center) provide.
--- Consider an alarm to compliment a camera system.
- Poorly selected cameras and poorly located cams will tell you what happened, but not who did it. You need good facial shots for identification that law enforcement can use for a positive id. Sure, you (and your wife) may recognize your crazy uncle, maybe just by his gait, his build, etc. But will it be usable as evidence?
- You're in a rush - very understandable. Avoid the temptation to move quickly and make product selections before you're up the learning curve. We can help here!
- Use tailored google searches to find relevant threads on this forum. Restrict google searches to just this site, to avoid hits from retailers, opinion pieces, unrelated sites that may have matches to terms like "camera", FOV, nightime performance, etc that have nothing to do with what you're seeking out.
--- Google search terms might be:
--- site:ipcamtalk.com, remote monitoring app, android
--- wifi for cams, dependable, site:ipcamtalk.com
--- performance at night, low light, site:ipcamtalk.com
- Your request for guidance and suggestions is very, very common on this site. It's how many of our members started out. So there are many, many threads here with Q&A and guidance. Tap into that wealth of info.
--- eg: site:ipcamtalk.com, newbie, recommend system, identify
- don't buy a package from Costco or Best buy. Why?
a) they lean towards "wide Field Of View". They play on your desire to see everything. However, while they see "wide", they don't see "far". To get a good facial id, you'd have to be within 10ft
b) They generally don't have "Smart Detect" features like a virtual "trip wire" or "intrusion zone". Instead, they over-hype Motion Detect. In outdoor situations, MD sucks. Too many false alarms due to blowing trees/shrubs, shadows, blowing leaves, shadows, etc.
b) --- You can have an app on your phone that will push a 30 sec video to you immediately if someone crosses a tripwire. View clip. Call 911. Call neighbor.
c) The cameras are one type. In real world, you'll need a wide angle over there, a longer view over here, a turret cam for under your eaves, a bullet cam with external mic in the corner by driveway & front walk. One size does NOT fit all.

It's good you're a diy guy, that mentality will help you sort through the choices, that can be intimidating (initially) in the vast assortment and variety out there.

I had to set up a system quickly. I bought long pre-fabricated Cat 6 cables, strung them out from a 2nd floor deck, up over the roof, or tie-wrapped to gutter, to cams I attached to the house in a quick and dirty fashion. You can get up and running quickly. Later, pull cables thoughtfully thru attic or whatever, for a permanent installation. The benefit of the "quick and dirty" temporary approach? I learned a ton about camera placement (choke points, mounting height, etc), FOV to determine the best lens size, camera type for next purchase, etc.

Jump in, do research, and ask thoughtful questions (to get thoughtful answers)

Again, welcome!
Fastb
 
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Dan,

Your initial post was both high level and detailed. I'll supplement my high level answer.
gosanke100 said:
get a recommendation on what cameras and NVR to use?
Click to expand...

NVR: Dahua and Hikvision. Sounds like you decided NOT to go with a PC running Blue Iris. That's fine. An NVR will be easier, IMHO, to get a system up and running.
Cameras: For outdoors, when nightime performance is important, the Starlight Varifocals can't be beat. If you want to connect an external sensor (like a switch on a gate, or laser line), you need external i/o. Then consider the bullet version Dahua Starlight Varifocal Bullet (IPC-HFW5231E-Z).

gosanke100 said:
Does this route make the most sense or is there a better way to approach the security aspect?
Click to expand...
In general, a good approach. Take the bull by the horns, and start researching. eg:
site:ipcamtalk.com, choke point, camera location
site:ipcamtalk.com, facial id, varifocal
site:ipcamtalk.com, trespasser, car prowl, package theft

Best wishes for getting through this! Keep the wife feeling safe in your castle!

Fastb
 
Harden entry doors with 3" screws replacing the 3/4" inch in your deadbolt and one 3" in each hinge.
Keep doors locked all hours of the day. Keep the garage door shut. Windows locked.
Baseball bat nearby, if you don't or can't keep a firearm.

Stay in the house. Don't try to confront him. Stay in the house and call the police. People high on drugs are completely unpredictable. And usually much stronger than they normally would be. Most importantly, have a safety plan, and practice it so you are ready incase uncle comes a calling.

If you are that concerned, I'd go with a security system first, installed properly. NOT ADT.
See here for help: Alarm & Security Systems
 
Wow, thanks for the warm welcome and acceptance! I have already started doing more research on here. I have told my wife she needs to give me a little time to do this right. I actually had her read your responses and that helped. It's kind of strange but she is more worried about catching him on camera intruding on our property than actually breaking into our house. Although still worried about that too. I think she just wants the proof. My initial comments about choosing an NVR and cameras as a system came from what I had initially read. Those starlight varifocals and NVR seem like something I could do easily although I think I need to read up and make sure I choose the correct cameras and understand how they work. I will also read up on the alarms and security systems. I'll use the search methods described so I can stay on point. Lots to study! I really appreciate all of your help and input!
 
Getting a bunch of those Dahua Starlight varifocal turrets and an NVR with big hard drive to save the footage is almost a no-brainer. They are extremely versatile with the varifocal lens and work great at night. The only real question is budget and coverage. Since you have a real threat that is likely to look for holes in your coverage then you probably want almost no blind spots. If the money isn't there for say 10 or 12 Starlight varifocals then maybe 4 or so plus a bunch of the cheaper ones to cover blind spots would be preferable to sacrificing coverage. Hard to make an exact recommendation without seeing the property plan complete with doors windows etc.

If it were me, I would order a 16 channel Dahua NVR, a big hard drive or two from Amazon or Newegg, and say four of the Starlight varifocals to start me off with my installation and after that as soon as I had a better idea of what other cameras I needed then order the second batch in so it ships while installing the first batch and tweaking the NVR.
 
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I was thinking the same thing. I was going to order 6 cameras and the NVR to start. Looks like many are ordering from Andy (empire candy) but he looks to be waiting on stock on both items. I am thinking I can run the cat6 while I wait for an order. It would put things in process and I can read up some more. Trying to figure more out like if it would be good to use a POE switch or other items to go with a setup.
 
I'd go with external POE switches vs built-in stuff from the NVR if it were me.
 
Or switch w/ Poe midspan injector for cam cables
 
switch w/ Poe midspan injector for cam cables is over my head at this point. Guess more investigation is needed or can you point me to a specific thread.
 
gosanke100,

Enter this into google: mid-span poe, injector, nayr, site:ipcamtalk.com
You'll find several threads, all on this site.
I included "nayr" in the search terms, since he often comments on poe injectors.
Or this search term: midspan poe, injector, cabling, site:ipcamtalk.com

Here's a thread: POE Router - The crucial specs, Advice on how to buy Used unit
It includes a discussion on POE switch, versus [traditional Switch + POE injector]
And a discussion on fanless, for less noise.

The drawback in my mind for POE switch:
- the ones with more than a few poe ports is they have fans (noise)
- they tend to be more expensive than a [switch + injector]
The drawbacks of two box approach (ie: [poe + injector]) are:
- two widgets instead of one
- extra cabling
For me, these drawbacks are minor. The injector is small, the power supply is fanless. The extra cabling is just short per-fabricated patch cords.

I just received my a) switch b) injector and c) patch panel. see pic. I'm playing with it on my bench, while waiting for the enclosure that will contain it all. Then I'll run some home-runs from cams to the wall where the enclosure and stuff will be mounted. Those camera cables will be terminated to the patch panel using punch-down tool. (easier and little more dependable than crimping on RJ45 connectors to the cables) And a run to my home LAN router to reach the internet. And a run to my bench, so I can connect my laptop to the camera subnet. And to a remote monitor in the kitchen, to view cams real time. Those 3 runs don't need poe, and will be connected to the switch and not the poe injector.

I hope I didn't muddy the water even further for you!

Fastb
20170303_145631.jpg
 
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Thanks for the input. Trying to wrap my mind around this. So if I have an NVR with POE, I can have the cat cable right from the camera to the NVR. I don't understand why I would need a switch. Doesnt't the NVR ports act as the switch? I also don't understand why I would need an injector. Wouldn't the NVR ports to the cameras provide the power?
 
A POE switch allows you to easily access the cams from a computer. An NVR won't allow you to tweak all the settings easily from the NVR and it's harder to access the cams from a computer if they're all plugged directly into the NVR. The NVR puts them all on its own network. Have enough POE ports on the switch to handle the cams, put the switch in a convenient spot, then from the switch run one cable to the NVR and one to a computer. Depends on home layout a bit too but it can beat running a dozen cables directly back to the NVR from each cam like an octopus.

Midspans inject POE power into the cable after a switch but before the camera, so you can use non-POE switches. Not necessary and another layer of complexity for a newbie.

I run a computer system but have three POE switches and a router at my home. One 10/100 POE switch in my back building, one 10/100 POE switch in the garage, and one gigabit POE switch at the computer, all plugged into the gigabit router which is plugged into the computer. I can add a cam or just about anything else just about anywhere with a short run of cable to a switch and it's accessible to my server.

To keep things cheapest and simplest at first (except probably for cable routing), plug all the cams directly into the NVR and use its POE. Just plan for the octopus that the NVR will become if you'll need lots of cameras. If you're like many of us on here though, you'll eventually want to tweak and play with all of settings in the cams and that's easier from a computer than the NVR. Also, whatever NVR you get probably won't power all of its ports with POE anyway so you'll have to add POE from somewhere later on as the camera count grows. I'm not an NVR guy (prefer Blue Iris) but I still own one and have used them so my advice is generic, not specific to any particular brand/model. Rule of thumb for common NVRs and POE switches is that they power half of their ports. There are exceptions though. Also, if you plan on 6 cameras on an 8 port switch with 4 powered ports then you can add two injectors and get six powered port without having to upgrade your POE switch. Remember that one unpowered free port is necessary to plug the switch into something like the NVR or a router.
 
Ok, it is coming together now. When I did my network at home, I ran cat 5 to all of my rooms in my house for internet. I ran all of them to my crawl space where I had installed a switch. From the switch, I ran a line to my router which is next to my computer and then connected the router to my computer. I wouldn't have a problem running the cameras to a switch. If I do this, then I run one line from the switch to one of the POE switches on the NVR and then a line from the NVR to the router? If I also run a line from the switch to the computer, then it bypasses the NVR and I can access the cameras without being on the NVR network? This way I can access the cameras two different ways? If I don't have an NVR then the switch runs just to the computer and you use Blue Iris to access the cameras?

Sorry for all the questions.
 
So I confused myself again. If I have six cameras that run to a POE switch, would the POE switch be connected to the NVR or the router or both? If to the router, then would the NVR be connected to the POE switch but not the router? If to the NVR, then the NVR would run to the router but not the POE switch? How about if I have three cameras running to the POE switch and 3 cameras ran directly to the POE ports on the NVR. Would that effect the hookup?
 
best to have your NVR on the same switch as the cameras, for less points of failure and potential areas of bottlenecking (scales better)

the NVR concentrates all the bandwidth from all the camera's on its network port; its one of the most critical to prevent bottlenecking.. so plug it into a GigE uplink on a PoE switch
 
So the best hookup is cameras to POE switch or NVR POE; then GigE port on POE switch to NVR; then POE switch to router? Do the cameras plugged into the POE switch and the cameras plugged into the NVR operate/process the video the same as opposed to all being plugged into the same device?
 
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