'non' - LPR Camera Recommendation Please !

M

markops

n3wb
Nov 6, 2020
7
1
Melbourne, Australia
Hi All, I am using a Synology NAS as my NVR so am quite open to various brands of cameras.

I currently have an existing Hikvision (DS-2CD2032-I) under my porch which is working fine apart from the fact that I can't capture license plates during the day or night. (see image). I only have a very short image space to capture a vehicle as you can see.

I think a dedicated LPR would be overkill for my situation so looking for a camera (happy to stay with Hikvision) which will allow for general recording as well as being able to view license plates through recordings during day & night.

Cars generally drive at 15-40 kph (10-25 mph) and are no further than 15-20m (50-60ft) from the camera. I'm not too hung up on price but don't want to spend thousands so any recommendations would be much appreciated!

I'd also like to know a bit more about what features would allow for this, so feel free to go into an explanation. i.e. fps, focal length, etc..

Thanks guys !
 

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If you are talking about getting plates from that cam position, give it up. With the parked car, tree, and wall, you have no room, even with a serious zoom. At night, the IR will reflect from the tree, fence and wall.

Where exactly do you think you will grab a plate?
 
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I agree, that isn’t even worth trying. Cut that tree down and then you maybe have a chance capturing the plate between the parked cars. Why the heck is it planted so close to the building anyway?
 
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markops said:
If not suitable, I can place another camera in a better location. What sort of specs do I require ? and any recommendations?
Click to expand...
It would depend on what your plan is for an LPR mission. Do you just want to record video of plates as they come down the road? Or do you want to scrub the plate number and place in some sort of database to be able to search/recall by date or plate number to see when a certain plate passed?

If all you want is to have recorded video, then any cam that can zoom into a gap between the parked cars and focused on the road would work. However, it could be problematic in low light since IR will be in play and there are a lot of IR reflecting devices there. It will be tough to always have the same clear path to the roadway since those parked cars can change positions.

If you expect to capture the plates for some kind of database, then you really need a view that allows the cam or your VMS to take a snapshot of the plate to send to a third party for processing. That can be very hard to get the proper balance of depth and zoom on a two way street such that the snapshot is taken at the moment the plate is in view. There are some third party providers that use the video feed in stead of a snapshot, but those services are expensive.
 
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markops said:
I think a dedicated LPR would be overkill for my situation so looking for a camera (happy to stay with Hikvision) which will allow for general recording as well as being able to view license plates through recordings during day & night.

Thanks guys !
Click to expand...

There's your problem. You're not going to get license plates (especially at night) AND get "general recording" with a single camera.

Being able to see a plate well enough to get a good read, regardless of whether you just want to record them for playback when needed (like I do) or automate the process with some type of recognition/database solution, requires a dedicated camera generally zoomed in so much that you get little if any other surrounding area.

At night, you have to use a very fast exposure, that makes the image essentially black, relying on the IR to light up the plate without washing it out into a big white unreadable blob.

So you need to decide if you want to dedicate a camera to JUST LPR and nothing else. (see day/night examples)

HOA Entr_EntrTag_main_20201107005748_@3.jpg HOA Entr_IP PTZ Camera_main_20201106163809_@3.jpg
 
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markops said:
Hi All, I am using a Synology NAS as my NVR so am quite open to various brands of cameras.

I currently have an existing Hikvision (DS-2CD2032-I) under my porch which is working fine apart from the fact that I can't capture license plates during the day or night. (see image). I only have a very short image space to capture a vehicle as you can see.

I think a dedicated LPR would be overkill for my situation so looking for a camera (happy to stay with Hikvision) which will allow for general recording as well as being able to view license plates through recordings during day & night.

Cars generally drive at 15-40 kph (10-25 mph) and are no further than 15-20m (50-60ft) from the camera. I'm not too hung up on price but don't want to spend thousands so any recommendations would be much appreciated!

I'd also like to know a bit more about what features would allow for this, so feel free to go into an explanation. i.e. fps, focal length, etc..

Thanks guys !
Click to expand...

maybe mount a camera where that empty hook is- it misses the tree and looks over the parked cars. probably anything 8mm focal or higher would be fine (bullet or turret), so long as it has good night sensor (<1/2''). something closer to 12mm or 16mm would probably give you the best angle, (pointed further down the street), but since everything is so close, you might even find you can monitor pedestrian traffic as well if that is of value to you (since you said a dedicated LPR might not be necessary), and if your not too hung up on catching every single plate with 100% confidence.
 
samplenhold said:
It would depend on what your plan is for an LPR mission. Do you just want to record video of plates as they come down the road? Or do you want to scrub the plate number and place in some sort of database to be able to search/recall by date or plate number to see when a certain plate passed?

If all you want is to have recorded video, then any cam that can zoom into a gap between the parked cars and focused on the road would work. However, it could be problematic in low light since IR will be in play and there are a lot of IR reflecting devices there. It will be tough to always have the same clear path to the roadway since those parked cars can change positions.

If you expect to capture the plates for some kind of database, then you really need a view that allows the cam or your VMS to take a snapshot of the plate to send to a third party for processing. That can be very hard to get the proper balance of depth and zoom on a two way street such that the snapshot is taken at the moment the plate is in view. There are some third party providers that use the video feed in stead of a snapshot, but those services are expensive.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your detailed reply. I'm not looking to create a database of plates but to be able to get a plate from a recording when there's an incident. There's been quite a few thefts in the street lately and although I can capture vehicles, I can't by any means get a readable plate.
It sounds like from your reply, that a dedicated LPR is what I need and that I can't have a multi purpose camera ?
 
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bigredfish said:
There's your problem. You're not going to get license plates (especially at night) AND get "general recording" with a single camera.

Being able to see a plate well enough to get a good read, regardless of whether you just want to record them for playback when needed (like I do) or automate the process with some type of recognition/database solution, requires a dedicated camera generally zoomed in so much that you get little if any other surrounding area.

At night, you have to use a very fast exposure, that makes the image essentially black, relying on the IR to light up the plate without washing it out into a big white unreadable blob.

So you need to decide if you want to dedicate a camera to JUST LPR and nothing else. (see day/night examples)

View attachment 74360 View attachment 74361
Click to expand...
Thanks BigRed, much appreciated.
 
cjowers said:
maybe mount a camera where that empty hook is- it misses the tree and looks over the parked cars. probably anything 8mm focal or higher would be fine (bullet or turret), so long as it has good night sensor (<1/2''). something closer to 12mm or 16mm would probably give you the best angle, (pointed further down the street), but since everything is so close, you might even find you can monitor pedestrian traffic as well if that is of value to you (since you said a dedicated LPR might not be necessary), and if your not too hung up on catching every single plate with 100% confidence.
Click to expand...
Thanks CJ
 
markops said:
It sounds like from your reply, that a dedicated LPR is what I need and that I can't have a multi purpose camera ?
Click to expand...
That is correct. See BRF's reply #6 and the image of his night cap. Now you can try to do more than LPR with that cam, especially if there is enough light at night. But you run the risk of not getting the plate at night when you need it the most. LPR is not easy. It is part art, part science. It takes a lot of settings manipulation to get reliable caps in all instances.
 
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markops said:
Hi All, I am using a Synology NAS as my NVR so am quite open to various brands of cameras.

I currently have an existing Hikvision (DS-2CD2032-I) under my porch which is working fine apart from the fact that I can't capture license plates during the day or night. (see image). I only have a very short image space to capture a vehicle as you can see.

I think a dedicated LPR would be overkill for my situation so looking for a camera (happy to stay with Hikvision) which will allow for general recording as well as being able to view license plates through recordings during day & night.

Cars generally drive at 15-40 kph (10-25 mph) and are no further than 15-20m (50-60ft) from the camera. I'm not too hung up on price but don't want to spend thousands so any recommendations would be much appreciated!

I'd also like to know a bit more about what features would allow for this, so feel free to go into an explanation. i.e. fps, focal length, etc..

Thanks guys !
Click to expand...
What size lens in your 2032?
I'm using a 2cd2032-i with a 12mm lens for LPR. Vehicles go by about 40 mph, cam about 45ft away ,4ft high.
Exposure 2000 with some extra IR at night.
DESKTOP-9OGAIA7-V53425-1604527572-0.jpgDESKTOP-9OGAIA7-V53425-1604520426-0.jpg
 
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biggen said:
Why the heck is it planted so close to the building anyway?
Click to expand...

For any oddities just nod wisely and go ahhh, Victorian. :D


1605422349098.png

I think it may have been suggested, but up under the eave shooting that way. See if you can get one of the older IPC-HFW5231E-Z5 or Z12. They work really well in that role. I use one for that purpose with great success.

I've just installed an IPC-HFW5442E-Z4E as an overview camera, and you could use it in the number plate capture role, but the field of view is quite wide. No issues with reading plates 20m away from the camera. Spec sheet say it will do 250ppm at 40m so plates should be readable at anything under that. They also make the IPC-HFW5242H-Z6E which also has their 1.1/8" sensor but is only 2MP so would have insane low light performance. You could run insanely high shutter speeds. I run 1/2000 of a second on my old 1/2.8" Starlight for number plate capture. You could run the IPC-HFW5242H-Z6E at half that again very easily. It has a narrower field of view and will capture plates at the same range as it's 4mp brother.
 
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