Neel help with POE Camera

[Pastelaso]

Hi guys...
I started having a weird issue recently and I cannot figure out what's wrong.
I recently had to relocate a couple of POE cameras due to my gutter downspouts were in the way and blocking some of the view. The cameras were there first before the gutters ( and the gutters needed to be on those spots).
Anyway, I only had to move them about 1 foot, it wasn't much and I was very careful with the Ethernet cable.

After I moved them, I noticed that sometimes I cannot view those two cameras on my Blue Iris app (they work fine on the Console). When I try to view them on the app, they start spinning and spinning and no picture comes out.
But, they are fine on the Console and I get motion alerts and everything there. This happens on all my phones with Blue Iris app (2 iPhones and 1 Samsung Galaxy). All of them behave the same.

I have tried rebooting everything including the router, POE switch, but the issue doesn't go away.
One thing I have noticed is that, if I wiggle the Ethernet cable connection on the back of the cameras, then sometimes the issue goes away and I can pull the picture on the phones, but after some time it goes back to spinning.

What confuses me is, nothing happened to those wires or that connection as I was very careful to no pull on them because I didn't really need to because I only had to move the cameras no more than 1 foot at most.
Could it be that these Amcrest 5MP cameras have such sensitive connectors that just moving them around get a bad connection?

But, I am still confused as to why it would ONLY affect the wireless signal. As I said, the Blue Iris console feed is unaffected and works as normal.
I also notice when I click on the cameras and the spinning icon starts, over at the Blue Iris Camera Status section, the webcast starts going up and up as if I am actually viewing the feed, but nothing appears on the phone screen, just a black screen.

Any ideas as to what is going on here? I hope my explanation made sense.
I emailed Blue Iris support, but so far I have not received a response.

 

[bigredfish]

Sounds like your wifi throughput is the problem not BI or the cameras…

 

[Pastelaso]

But why only those 2 cameras that I moved? I've had them for years and I never had this issue. Only started happening after I moved them. I also thought about the throughput and disabled other cameras, but the issue persists.
My other POE camera and all the rest work as normal.

 

[bigredfish]

oh OK. Assume all your cameras go through a switch, same switch?

 

[wittaj]

Agree this is not a BI issue.

Sounds like with all the best intentions something happened with the wire.

Did you do proper waterproofing using dielectric grease? If not, in all likelihood the connection reseated just a tad off and now causing issues.

But even if you did do proper waterproofing, it doesn't take much for one of the wires to come a little loose.

Or maybe it is just coincidental. Has anything been added recently to the switch or wifi?

 

[Pastelaso]

One POE switch for my 3 POE cameras and that's connected to an Asus RT-AC86U wireless Router. All cameras are on a different Network from the main.
@wittaj Yes, they have water proofing and all are under a soffit which never gets wet.

But, why would it only affect the wireless signal though? - as I said, Blue Iris console is normal, but the issue is ONLY with the cameras I moved. I unplugged them and reconnected the connection to the back of them and everything looked normal.
The only way to get them to work again is to move the cable portion that goes into the back of the camera itself, not where the Ethernet connection is.. but on the actual back of the camera.

It's just weird as to why only the wireless signal. I have tried disconnecting all wireless cameras and just leaving the POE cameras, but only the one I did not move works... the two that do not only work on the Console.

 

[wittaj]

I would delete the problem cams in BI and re-add them.

Maybe the camera in BI got corrupt when there was no signal.

Are you using substreams?

And nothing else that has been added recently? Cameras going thru a router instead of VLAN or dual NIC are notorious for causing issues.

But it does sound like an issue with the camera wiring. Perhaps a micro tear or separation where the cable goes into the camera as that is where you said the issue is.

 

[Pastelaso]

I didn't have to unplug the cameras to move them as I only moved them a few inches. My router has VLAN option (YazFi) so Blue Iris cameras are segregated.
But yes, I agree with you. I don't think it's an issue with Blue Iris..but I am still confused as to why it only affecting the wireless signal.

If it was an issue with the cable, then I would not be able to view them on the Console, right?
Could damage to the wire affect only the wireless signal?

 

[Pastelaso]

Ok.. so I have spent a few hours trying to figure this thing out.. checked the ethernet cable and it seems fine on both cameras. I notice if I stand in front of the cameras and it detects me, then I can start to see them in the blue iris app, but once I get out of its view and no motion is detected, then it starts with the spinning thing and won't load on the app, but it always works on the Console... this is very strange behavior.

 

[Pastelaso]

I was able to determine it was some how the configuration of those cameras got messed up while I was moving them?!
I tested the ethernet cable by assigning them with the same IP address of the POE camera that worked fine and the issue went away.. so that told me the Ethernet cable was fine and there is no output issue.
As suggested, deleted the camera and readded it new.. no more issues.. this is so strange how the configuration got corrupted just by moving the camera...oh well, glad I was able to figure it out as I didn't want to rerun the Ethernet cables.. that would have been a pain!

 

[wittaj]

Glad the delete and re-add worked!

 

[Pastelaso]

I may have spoken too soon!
The issue has come back...but, I have been monitoring it. Once it started happening gain, I readded the cameras again and it went away, but then it came back the next morning.
What i have noticed is, the issue goes away at night...during the night I can view the cameras with no issues and I thought it was fixed, but once daylight comes, I can no longer view them unless I stand in front of them for them to detect me.

Once the motion is gone, I cannot view them on live view, but again, only in the app. There is no issue on the Console at any time. I have never seen this weird thing before in my life.
I'm also getting a yellow triangle that says.. "clip format change" for those cameras.... Not sure what that means.

Sorry I keep bringing this issue up, but it's driving me crazy. What would be going on at night time that fixes the issue completely and then during the day it comes back?

 

[Flintstone61]

Santa is trying to tell you to buy Empiretech for Xmas....he's subtle that way.
If they are " years" old maybe something got brittle and disturbing them caused a connection issue in the cam cable.
when you say" wireless" it's confusing. are they POE and wifi or what?

 

[Pastelaso]

They are POE cameras from 2021, but the issue is only when trying to view them via the app. There is no issue on the Console at all, at any time. It's only when viewing via the app.
The confusing part for me is.. if it was something wrong with the camera or maybe the wires...why is there no issues at the Console?

All 3 POE cameras I have are the same age, but only 2 out of the 3 are giving me this issue which are the ones I had to move a few inches.
But, the other weird thing is...if I change the IP address of those issue cameras with the IP of the one with no issues..then the wok fine. It's only when I give them any other IP that they start giving me issues.

I thought it may also be some settings, but I have re added them brand new with default settings and the issue persists...BUT, the issue goes away at night!!!!!
I'm telling you.. this makes no sense to me,. but I am sure it has to be some setting.

Now, if I change the resolution of those cameras to 3MP, then the issue goes away which makes no sense because when I change the IP be the same as the ONE camera that has no issues, they work fine at the full resolution of 5MP.
So, I can have the 3 cameras at 5MP work fine if they have the same IP address..but if I change their IP to be different, then I the issue starts.

I don't think it would be a throughput issue because I am barely scratching the surface on the bandwidth.. the are only 3, 5MP cameras.. 3, 3MP...2, 3.7 MP and 1, 4MP...total of 9 cameras...so there is no way I am using more than 1 gigabit of bandwidth with these cameras.

 

[wittaj]

I am wondering if your router VLAN option via YazFi is the culprit?

Although the Merlin software has given you the ability to VLAN the router that was not designed for VLAN, it probably cannot keep up with the constant demands these cameras have/need. Unlike streaming services like Netflix, these cameras never buffer. The consumer routers are notorious for being poor quality switches as it relates to cameras.

So it is probably simply coincidence of timing of moving the cameras. Either something else has been added to the network, interference from a neighbor, etc.

The fact that it doesn't happen at night (which makes sense as less movement and probably not as much activity at night), coupled with it goes away if you change the resolution, all leads to a bandwidth issue.

When you do your testing and change the IP address to one that works, I am assuming at that time that you are then one less camera on the system?

Or you have somehow IP conflicted your system somewhere. I assume you have manually assigned IP addresses?

I suspect it is an ASUS router correct?

As I mentioned, cameras connected to Wifi routers (whether wifi or not) are problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to send cameras through a wifi router. At the very least it can slow down your entire system.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent, especially once you start adding distance. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes - mine goes 45 seconds. Now do the same with a camera connected to a router and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

The same issue applies even with the hard-wired cameras trying to send all this non-buffer video stream through a router. Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues. The consumer routers are just not designed for this kind of traffic, even a GB speed router.

So the more cameras and devices you add, the bigger the potential for issues.

And since you mentioned you have wifi cameras as well, this was a great test that SouthernYankee tried and posted about it here:

I did a WIFI test a while back with multiple 2MP cameras each camera was set to VBR, 15 FPS, 15 Iframe, 3072kbs, h.264. Using a WIFI analyzer I selected the least busy channel (1,6,11) on the 2.4 GHZ band and set up a separate access point. With 3 cameras in direct line of sight of the AP about 25 feet away I was able to maintain a reasonable stable network with only intermittent signal drops from the cameras. Added a 4th camera and the network became totally unstable. Also add a lot of motion to the 3 cameras caused some more network instability. More data more instability.
The cameras are nearly continuously transmitting. So any lost packet causes a retry, which cause more traffic, which causes more lost packets.
WIFI does not have a flow control, or a token to transmit. So your devices transmit any time they want, more devices more collisions.
As a side note, it is very easy to jam a WIFI network. WIFI is fine for watching the bird feed but not for home surveillance and security.
The problem is like standing in a room, with multiple people talking to you at the same time about different subjects. You need to answer each person or they repeat the question.

Test do not guess.

For a 802.11G 2.4 GHZ WIFI network the Theoretical Speed is 54Mbps (6.7MBs) real word speed is nearer to 10-29Mbps (1.25-3.6 MBs) for a single channel

And TonyR recommends this (which is the preferred way IF you want to do wifi)

The only way I'd have wireless cams is the way I have them now: a dedicated 802.11n, 2.4GHz Access Point for 3 cams, nothing else uses that AP. Its assigned channel is at the max separation from another 2.4GHz channel in the house. There is no other house near me for about 300 yards and we're separated by dense foliage and trees.

Those 3 cams are indoor, non-critical pet cams (Amcrest IP2M-841's) streaming to Blue Iris and are adequately reliable for their jobs. They take their turns losing signal/reconnecting usually about every 12 hours or so for about 20 seconds which I would not tolerate for an outdoor surveillance cam pointed at my house and/or property.

But for me, this works in my situation: dedicated AP, non-critical application and periodic, short-term video loss.... if any one of those 3 conditions can't be achieved or tolerated, then I also do not recommend using wireless cams.

I am starting to lean towards coincidence of the moving of the cameras. No other real explanation at this point. Something has changed in your network topology - maybe it is something as simple as an IP address conflict, but I am leaning towards the router being taxed at this point.

 

[Pastelaso]

I will try to remove the YazFi feature and go back to how I had them in the past which were working fine at all times. But yes, this issue started AFTER I setup vlans using the YazFi feature in the Asus router.
I was so happy I was able to get these cameras on a different Network, but if it's going to give me issues, then I guess I will not be able to use YazFi then.

I live in the country, so my neighbors are at some distance and there is really no issue with wireless interference as the few that are in the area are far.

I would love to not have to use wireless, but I have to because some of the cameras I have are in my backyard are in my shed and to get Ethernet there would be a major work. But the wifi signal gets there with full bars, so I've never had an issue getting wireless there with this AC86U router..the wireless signal distance is fantastic...best I've ever had on a router.

I will report back once I get rid of YazFi and go back to normal.. I will keep you posted.

 

[Pastelaso]

Ok.. I uninstalled YazFi, rebooted the router. Also, I only left the 3 5MP cameras connected to Blue Iris.. those are the only ones there.
Same issue...all 3 are fine on the Console, but only 1 will show live on the app... the other 2 only spin and spin UNLESS they detect motion, then I can view them live.

Mind boggling!!!! why would I only be able to view them on the console...well let me give more detail.. when I open the app, I can see them on the layout in the camera groups..but if I click on them to view them single, then It won't let me...only the 1 POE camera works....any idea as to why all of them work fine on the Console, but not on the app?... all 3 phones have this issue... again, there are currently 3 cameras in Blue Iris which are the POE... the rest are offline.

If I change the resolution of those 2 cameras to 3MP, then the issue goes away immediately. I'm thinking there has to be some kind of setting causing an issue?

 

[Pastelaso]

I got a response from Ken from Blue Iris.. the issue has been resolved. The other day, I changed the setting in the webserver tab to none, thinking it would just apply the max bitrate for each camera automatically...
I wanted to be able to view the cameras without pixelation in the web browser..changing that setting to none helped, but it caused the issue I was having.



Lesson learned! - changed it back to default settings..ISSUE GONE!
I hope this really got it resolved. Ken said sometimes people put this to 100% and it causes the stream to be too large, which makes sense.

 

[Pastelaso]

Just confirming.. went back and installed YazFi and set it up how it was before with the vlans.. everything works as normal!
Thanks for your patience.

 

[looney2ns]

This is a lesson in don't go randomly changing the settings unless you understand what it is your changing and how it will affect things. Reading the blue iris help file can alleviate a lot of these problems that are caused by user error.