Need advice about dahua treatment: NVR or Camera?

[capitainealnbator]

Hello everyone!
I am French and, after some research on this forum, I would like to ask you some questions.

I own these equipments:

1x DHI-NVR5216-EI (no POE version as I already have a POE switch) firmware updated
2x IPC-PDW3849-A180-AS-PV (SMD S4 version)

I wanted to buy one more HFW3849T1-AS-PV camera (S4 version) but I saw on this forum that I shouldn't buy the 8MP version but I didn't understand why (?)

My question: I would like to detect line and zone crossings and have these detections recorded on the NVR.
Is it better for this processing to be done by the cameras or directly by the NVR? In fact, I'm asking you this question because, on the NVR, it is possible to do searches by AI directly on the NVR but I imagine that this is only in the case where it is the NVR which manages the processing?



Thanks very much for your help,

Kind regards from France.

 

[wittaj]

It is better to have the camera do most of the work. When you use the NVR to do AI, you can be cutting the capacity of the NVR by half.

So if the camera has the AI capabilities, do that. You should set any parameter that can set in the camera and not the NVR.

The 3849 is a horrible camera that should have never been sold.

This is active deterrence camera on an 8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor, so it is on a horrible MP/sensor ratio. You cannot have enough light at night for it to perform well. That sensor is designed for 2MP so a 2MP camera will kick its butt all night long.

Even worse, since this 8MP is on the same sensor and CPU as a 2MP non TIOC camera and there are many threads here showing how under-performing that 3849 is. They had to limit bitrate and other parameters on the 3849 to try to make it functional, and it just doesn't cut it.

In my opinion the 3849 should not be sold with that current MP/sensor and CPU combination, but alas everybody wants 4k and chases MP over sensor and this camera is the epitome of that thinking.

Further, the red/blue flashing lights are more gimmicky and are certainly not a deterrent. With any ambient light you won't see the red/blue flashing unless you are looking right at the camera.

If you want active deterrence, your best bet is to go with the 2MP IPC-T5241H-AS-PV that will blink the white light. This is on the ideal MP/sensor ratio and will perform comparably to any similar 2MP fixed lens camera by Dahua. I have two of them. I have some of the other active deterrence cams as well, and would opt for the 2MP in every instance except for indoor, one could go with the IPC-HDW3449HP-AS-PV that has the red/blue lights that will bounce off the walls and be much more impressive than outside.

Lot's of threads here where people showed how bad the 3849 camera is in performing:

IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV issues

IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV loses connection/reboots during the day

Replaced HDW5442TMP-ASE by HFW3849T1P

Dahua 8mp (TIOC): Full Colour, Active Deterrence & AI

IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV Video Quality

 

[capitainealnbator]

Thanks very much @wittaj for your reply and explanations, it's really precise and many thanks for the links! It's appreciated.

I hope IPC-PDW3849-A180-AS-PV is a good camera and do not have the same problems as the 8MP Tioc cameras?

Just an other question please: if the camera do the job of detection, will I see (for example) the human detection filling in the NVR or will I see nothing other than in the IVS part (see my image below) in the NVR ?
Many thanks!

 

[wittaj]

The 180 cameras make a great OVERVIEW camera, but you will not be able to IDENTIFY past 10-15 feet.

It will show you the AI from the camera if the NVR is AI capable.

Here is an example from @Ri22o of a 180 camera view versus a 2MP varifocal OPTICALLY zoomed in to a pinch point. The person is next to the green line on the left:



And now a 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to that area in green:




Which one is better for IDENTIFY?

 

[bigredfish]

Thanks very much @wittaj for your reply and explanations, it's really precise and many thanks for the links! It's appreciated.

I hope IPC-PDW3849-A180-AS-PV is a good camera and do not have the same problems as the 8MP Tioc cameras?

Just an other question please: if the camera do the job of detection, will I see (for example) the human detection filling in the NVR or will I see nothing other than in the IVS part (see my image below) in the NVR ?
Many thanks!

Yes, if you do detection on the camera, the NVR will still record it and be searchable through the AI Search interface.

 

[mat200]

Hello everyone!
I am French and, after some research on this forum, I would like to ask you some questions.

I own these equipments:

1x DHI-NVR5216-EI (no POE version as I already have a POE switch) firmware updated
2x IPC-PDW3849-A180-AS-PV (SMD S4 version)

I wanted to buy HFW3849T1-AS-PV cameras (S4 version) but I saw on this forum that I shouldn't buy the 8MP version but I didn't understand why (?)

My question: I would like to detect line and zone crossings and have these detections recorded on the NVR.
Is it better for this processing to be done by the cameras or directly by the NVR? In fact, I'm asking you this question because, on the NVR, it is possible to do searches by AI directly on the NVR but I imagine that this is only in the case where it is the NVR which manages the processing?

View attachment 191953

Thanks very much for your help,

Kind regards from France.

FYI -

basic concepts of moving compute to the edge devices ( cameras ) for security cameras,

This allows a more affordable NVR as it does limited compute tasks, and allows you to expand compute power as you buy each new camera. This also means you want more advanced cameras in some positions, and this costs more.

Downside, NVR and Cameras need to communicate the more advanced features .. thus you really need to match the OEMs of the NVRs and Cameras as ONVIF specs just do not keep up with the tech advances ..

 

[capitainealnbator]

@wittaj : indeed, the second view is much better but was it a PTZ camera that took this photo?

Both IPC-PDW3849-A180-AS-PV cameras are recorded by a capable AI NVR: NVR5216-EI.
I did a few tests by letting the two cameras do the complete analysis but, on the NVR, I have the visible sequences in SMD and IVS but I have nothing in the "Human detection" section, is that normal?

Many thanks to all

 

[wittaj]

Nope that 2nd picture was a fixed camera, the 5241-Z12E.

It is best to use IVS and turn off Motion Detection and Smart Motion Detection. Simply use IVS with the AI for human and vehicle.

 

[bigredfish]

"Human Detection" in the AI search is I believe only associated with Video Meta Data

 

[capitainealnbator]

Thank you @bigredfish but if I understand correctly, the video meta data is provided by who? the NVR?
If I leave all the criteria on "all", I have absolutely no search results

 

[wittaj]

You can only run one on the camera. So if you run IVS on the camera, then you would have to run metadata on the NVR.

But is the metadata going to be valuable for your use case with a 180? In other words, looking at the images above, you will never get the metadata from that wide view.

Maybe simply being able to search by human or vehicle is going to be the best it gets with that camera.

 

[capitainealnbator]

Thank you @wittaj .
Here is my settings in "Event" menu for each camera:

Video detection is as follow:


Here is Smart motion detection:



And, finally, settings in AI configuration (Please note that I followed excellent youtube video of Empiretech Andy to configure this part ) :




So if I well understand: I have to deactivate motion detection (first picture) and smart motion detection (second picture) ?

Thanks very much

 

[wittaj]

That is correct, turn off MD and SMD and just use IVS.

 

[capitainealnbator]

Thanks very much @wittaj, I deactivated as suggested

But...please where could I activate meta data on my Nvr ? I'm really surprised by the image provided by a 5241-Z12E !!!
In fact, to cover 2 outdoor terraces of my house (4m x 5m), I wanted to buy 2x Dahua TIOC HFW-3849-T1-S4 but when I see what image quality the 5241-Z12E can provide, I am really amazed!

 

[wittaj]

I started with the four 2.8mm camera box kit system and I was like "I can place one on each corner of the house and see my whole property and the whole neighborhood." A newbie loves the wide angle "I can see the whole neighborhood" of the 2.8mm fixed wide angle lens. I LOVED IT WHEN I PUT IT UP. I could see everything that would be blocked looking out the windows.

It is easy to get lured in to thinking the wide angle "see the whole neighborhood" because you are watching it and you see a neighbor go by and you are like "Look at that I can tell that is Heather out walking." and "Yeah I can tell our neighbor 4 down just passed by". Or you watch back the video of you walking around and are like "yeah I can tell that is me".

Little do we realize how much WE can identify a known person just by hair style, clothing, walking pace, gait, etc.

Then one day the door checker comes by. Total stranger. Totally useless video other than what time the door checking happened.

Then you realize that this wide-angle see the whole neighborhood comes at a cost and that cost is not being able to IDENTIFY who did it. These 2.8mm wide angle cameras are great overview cameras or to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet of the camera. At 40 feet out you need a different camera.


See this thread for the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

 

[capitainealnbator]

Hello @wittaj , many thanks for this really interesting thread.

Indeed, I was fooled by commercial term "Full Color" and "TIOC"
Currently, the cameras installed only respond to "scene recording" and, possibly, "crossing detection" but as for identification, I think I will have to change the cameras....